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 Author Thread: Bobcat 753 Solenoid problems
Sonny is not online. Last active: 11/11/2008 2:31:37 PM Sonny
Joined: 28 Aug 2008
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Bobcat 753 Solenoid problems
Posted: 08/28/2008 07:13 PM
Today my Bobcat caught on fire....luckily it shut itself off! I had to replace the solenoid fuel shut off and was also told to replace the timer solenoid which I also purchased. The "shut off" part went on like a breeze but I can't figure out where to put the "timer". It is a harness with two plugs. Also, the instrument panel is not working now. Will this be corrected once I have the new timer solenoid plugged in? I'm new to this "Bobcat" thing. Can you tell? Any help would be appreciated!
thetool is not online. Last active: 6/16/2009 12:11:14 AM thetool
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Re: Bobcat 753 Solenoid problems
Posted: 08/28/2008 07:27 PM

The timer goes between the shutoff solenoid and the harness.  Just unplug the solenoid, plug one end of the timer harness to the solenoid plug, and the other end into the main harness.  The timer bolts to the frame or attach it with a zip tie.

Good Luck


The Tool aka Shane www.compactequipmentservice.com .
Sonny is not online. Last active: 11/11/2008 2:31:37 PM Sonny
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Re: Bobcat 753 Solenoid problems
Posted: 08/28/2008 07:29 PM
thanks for the reply. Will this correct the instrument panel?
Tazza is not online. Last active: 9/17/2014 9:42:26 PM Tazza
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Re: Bobcat 753 Solenoid problems
Posted: 08/28/2008 08:09 PM
As the panel is out i'd suspect you blew a fuse. Just what caught fire? as i have bought a few machines that had been fire damaged i just never knew what started the fires.

Bobcat 763 burntSadbut i'm working on it!, 04 S150 with air and a smooshed cab, S250 turbo.
Sonny is not online. Last active: 11/11/2008 2:31:37 PM Sonny
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Re: Bobcat 753 Solenoid problems
Posted: 08/28/2008 08:19 PM
The solenoid actually burned up and was smoking. No fun. Where do I look for this fuse that blew? I took the advise of the former poster and hooked up the timer. I'm not sure I have the solenoid adjusted correctly as it doesn't want to start right away like it did before and then when I moved the arm to the right, it didn't want to turn off. Any suggestions there? I know I am completely ignorant when it comes to this Bobcat, but for the most part I am having a blast with it and count this all as a "learning experience"! Thanks for any help you can give.
Tazza is not online. Last active: 9/17/2014 9:42:26 PM Tazza
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Re: Bobcat 753 Solenoid problems
Posted: 08/29/2008 01:55 AM

I think the fuses should be on the right hand side when you open the door below the main hydraulic filter, not 100% on that sorry as I'm using a 763 for reference.

I can't seem to find the info on adjusting the shut down solenoid but it should be adjusted so when the key is on there is only a few thou space between the arm and the stopper. You must ensure it doesn't bottom out on the stop or you risk burning up another solenoid. When its not fully seated it will draw more power. My manual didn't go into a lot of detail on it either, just ensure it doesn't bind up and when it releases the arm moves freely to the stop position or it will run on like what you have mentioned.


Bobcat 763 burntSadbut i'm working on it!, 04 S150 with air and a smooshed cab, S250 turbo.
Sonny is not online. Last active: 11/11/2008 2:31:37 PM Sonny
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Re: Bobcat 753 Solenoid problems
Posted: 08/29/2008 05:36 AM
It didn't actually 'catch on fire', the solenoid burned up and melted the end where the wires go in and smoked as though it was 'on fire'. I was on the back hoe attachment when this happened and out of view to the instrument panel, which doesn't come on now. Re-cap of my problem from the begining to now: The 'Solenoid, Shut' melted down and shut off the Bobcat (Part# IRB 6681513). I replaced that part and was told by the dealer to also replace the solenoid timer (IRB 6669415) which I could not find, but was told by one responder that it went between the 'Solenoid, Shut' and the wiring harnes which I did and managed to at least move it out of the way. When I replaced the 'Solenoid, Shut' it stayed in the 'Stop' position and wouldn't start. I attempted to adjust the 'Solenoid, Shut', but can't get it off stop. I manually held it off stop (vertical) and it started when giving it more throtle, so I temporaily wired it vertical, increased the throtle and moved it off the hill I was on before I added the timer. I have since added the timer as noted above, but nothing changed and I'm not sure if it previously had a timer or if I have the new one in the wrong place. I plan to look for and check for blown fuses and will post the results when completed. I truely appreciate any/all assistance as I am a novice at this and just bought this equipment, so forgive my lack of knowledge and abilities.
skidsteer.ca is not online. Last active: 7/21/2014 8:31:40 PM skidsteer.ca
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Re: Bobcat 753 Solenoid problems
Posted: 08/29/2008 08:16 AM

If your 753 has rectangular head lights, your fuses are back by the motor, if triangular (G series 99 and newer) then the fuses are below the seat under a cover behind your legs (calves)

Does it have the bar graph guages pre 99 with “boss”, or 2” round guages pre 99 non Boss or guages built into a panel 99 and newer, std equipment??

Ken


NH LS 160, S150, S185 Hoe Brusher Grapple Auger, Mixer Tiller Soil Conditioner Trencher Tracks Snow Blade Wood Splitter Stump Grinder Land Plane. Dealer Virnig Erskine Componets Plus Wallenstein Bauma Lite
Sonny is not online. Last active: 11/11/2008 2:31:37 PM Sonny
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Re: Bobcat 753 Solenoid problems
Posted: 08/29/2008 11:18 AM
It is a C Series with Rect Head Lights. I found the two fues boxex in the rear and all the fuses test 'OK', but can't figure out why the intrument panel won't light up, nor why the solenoid won't move off the stop position on it's own. The Instrument panel is in the upper-top-right corner of the cab and is the bar graph type if that helps determine the age or helps. The Serial # is 512728356 and I'd lve to know what year it is if anyone can tell me via the SR#. I located the old solenoid timer and replaced it with the new one, but that additional $100 didn't help either. Ant suggestions/assistance would be appreciated.
skidsteer.ca is not online. Last active: 7/21/2014 8:31:40 PM skidsteer.ca
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Re: Bobcat 753 Solenoid problems
Posted: 08/29/2008 12:19 PM

Ok so its a 753 C with the “boss” guage and engine shutdown/protection option

Do you have power to your key switch? or is it dead too? or only the guages dead?

How about you auxilary hydraulics, will they power up (the small green lights)

There is a power wire to the boss, you can test with a test light to see if the current is coming to the unit, seem to me its 5 volts so the light will be dim.

Ken


NH LS 160, S150, S185 Hoe Brusher Grapple Auger, Mixer Tiller Soil Conditioner Trencher Tracks Snow Blade Wood Splitter Stump Grinder Land Plane. Dealer Virnig Erskine Componets Plus Wallenstein Bauma Lite
thetool is not online. Last active: 6/16/2009 12:11:14 AM thetool
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Re: Bobcat 753 Solenoid problems
Posted: 08/29/2008 02:14 PM

I suspect you may have issues with your relays under your air cleaner(I think that's where they are).  Your fuel shutoff relay may not be letting go, and your switched power may not be making contact.

Pull them out and check the contacts.  You can switch them around if you think they may be acting up.  Your “lights” and “glow plug” relays will not interfere with  normal operation, so you can swap them in to the “start” and “switched power” slots on the relay block to check those relays.  “Switched Power” may be labeled “ACC”.  There is also one for aux hyds, I think?

I'm getting so I can't remember anything if I ain't lookin' at it.......=)

Good Luck


The Tool aka Shane www.compactequipmentservice.com .
Sonny is not online. Last active: 11/11/2008 2:31:37 PM Sonny
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Re: Bobcat 753 Solenoid problems
Posted: 08/30/2008 03:51 AM
I have power to the switch and can start it and operate it and the back hoe attachment, but I have to increase the throtle and manually hold the new solenoid off of the stop position. It does NOT turn off when I turn the key off until I pull the throtle all the way back. I do get auxilary hydrauliics (both green lights), but remain afraid to run it other than momentarily for testing for fear of causing additional damage. I haven't a clue where, or which wire to test to see if power is getting to the boss the wire. Is it in the instrument panel or else where? I haven't opened anything except the fuse box at the engine to check those fuses and the 25amp fuse on the new relay. Thanks for the help.
thetool is not online. Last active: 6/16/2009 12:11:14 AM thetool
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Re: Bobcat 753 Solenoid problems
Posted: 08/30/2008 08:48 AM

Okay you might have a couple of different problems.  The first thing you need to get squared away is the fule shutoff problem.

Like Tazza said, it sounds like it may be out of adjustment.

Disconnect the linkage at the arm on the pump, so that the solenoid plunger moves freely.  check that the arm on the pump moves freely, and likes to rest on the stop position.  If not, you have a problem inside the pump.

When the arm is against the shutoff postion stop, see where your linkage lines up with it when the key is off.  Adjust the length of the linkage to meet the hole in the arm, but don't bolt it up yet.

Then turn the key on, and the solenoid should pull.  Swing the arm on the pump to the run position, then check your linkage alignment again.  It should be close.  If so, bolt it up and it should work as designed.

What you're describing sounds like the linkage arm attached to the solenoid is too short.  When you turn the key on, the solenoid pulls and the arm goes against the stop, and the solenoid wants to keep pulling because it hasn't reached the end of its stroke, generates heat and melts.  When you key off, it lets go but because the linkage is too short, the arm dosen't travel all the way to the stop postition, the engine dosen't shut off smoothly.

Get that fixed first then go on to the Boss panel.  If everything starts and runs, you may just have a burned bulb in the display, and it's so dim you can't see the bars.


The Tool aka Shane www.compactequipmentservice.com .
Sonny is not online. Last active: 11/11/2008 2:31:37 PM Sonny
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Re: Bobcat 753 Solenoid problems
Posted: 08/30/2008 10:29 AM

Thanks Shane!!  I'll try that.  Have you thought of moving to TN?  It isn't as cold down here as it gets up there and you already have a friend right here.  I really appreciate the help!!

I tried sending the following earlier but kept getting an error message and hope this one posts:

 

Your memory is great, that's exactly where they are and I will check the contacts later this AM (the sun is not up yet). I did try to 'adjust' the new solenoid by moving the swivel arm nut, etc. to get it off the stop position, but it doesn't appear to move anything or get it further away from the stop. I hope I didn't screw it up and haven't a clue where it was before I messed with it. Thanks for the help. I called a few local tractor mechanics to see if they could help and no one will even consider looking at it and the Bobcat dealer (about 50 miles away) has yet to return my call. Right now this site and those replying are my only source of assistance. I appreciate each one taking the time to post their thoughts and providing assistance.

 

 

Sonny

Sonny is not online. Last active: 11/11/2008 2:31:37 PM Sonny
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Re: Bobcat 753 Solenoid problems
Posted: 08/30/2008 07:31 PM

I disconnected the linkage arm to the solenoid.  The spring in the solenoid seems to work fine, but the linkage arm wants to to stay vertical rather than freely move to stop.  I can manually turn it to stop, but it returns to the vertical psition when released.  The linkage arm doesn't move when I turn the key on or off.  However, I started it while the linkage arm was disconnectedand it ran fine.  I only let it run a few seconds for fear of additional damage. Would running it with the linkage disconnected cause any additional damage? (Like long enough to load it on a trailer) I turned the key off, but it didn't shut off until I manually moved the linkage arm to the stop position.  The linkage arm moved more freely while the linkage arm was disconnected. The spring in the new solenoid didn't appear to move any during any this process, but I suspect that it should not have without the linkage arm connected.  Should it have moved without the linkage arm connected?  I hope it isn't the Fuel Injection Pump because I don't think I have the skill to replace it.  I did find and bought a '753 Service Manual' and the Fuel Injection Pump replacement looks quite complicated.  The service manual has a drawing on page 7-38 showing the stop position to the right of the linkage arm, however the arrow behind the linkage arm next to the word 'stop' points to the left which confuses me because when I manually move the inkage arm to the left it stops the engine and manually moving it to the right towrd the solenoid increases the rpm some.  I adjusted the linkage arm to the shortest possible position, which kept it just off the stop and tried to start it, but it wouldn't start until I disconnected the linkage arm and let it hang down freely.  I also checked the bulb in the instrument panel and it does look like it has 'blown' because it is black almost all the way down.  BTW This novice had a time geeting to the top screw holding the instrument panel, located behind the head light because I thought the rubber on the top was a cap rather than connected to the the light and come Down with the light ;>).  I thought you might need a good laugh after all of the above.  Any additional suggestions/assistance is greatly appreciated.  Not only am I new to the Bobcat I am also new to forums like this. Is it 'OK' to share email addresses/telephone numbers in the forum?  I could email pictures of what I am talking about (and callyou) if so and you didn't mind.  Again, THANKS to all for the help.  Sonny

Tazza is not online. Last active: 9/17/2014 9:42:26 PM Tazza
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Re: Bobcat 753 Solenoid problems
Posted: 08/31/2008 01:44 AM

If you disconnect the 3 pin plug you can run it without an issue if you hold the lever in the run position without any damage.

Phone numbers, addresses and e-mail addresses are not an issue, i am always careful with posting e-mail addresses as there are programs that scan the internet looking for addresses to send spam to, I'm not old enough to need the little blue pills that are on offer and I'm not interested in the  other *enhancements* they are trying to sell me too!!!!

The injector pump is easy to swap out but that won't be the problem. The rack on the pump moves freely.

One thought!!!! there is actually a spring BEHIND the plate that holds the stop lever. Remove the 4 bolts and pull the cover off, check that it is still spring loaded and moves back and forth and snaps back under spring tension. This is the cover with the lever below the pump.


Bobcat 763 burntSadbut i'm working on it!, 04 S150 with air and a smooshed cab, S250 turbo.
Sonny is not online. Last active: 11/11/2008 2:31:37 PM Sonny
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Re: Bobcat 753 Solenoid problems
Posted: 09/01/2008 07:51 AM

Thanks for the reply.  I trust you mean the 3 pin plug from the fuel shut off solenoid .  I did look behind the plate and the spring is in place and it pulls back to the right.  After putting it back together it 'feels' better (moves more freely).  It may have been in a bind at some point, but moves easily now.  I started it up with the linkage disconnected and it ran fine, but as soon as I hook up the linkage it remains pushed to the stop position.  Turning the key on and off doesn't appear to move either the solenoid plunger or the linkage rod. Should either move just by turning the key on and off?  I placed an object between the linkage rod and the stop to hold the lever vertical and trated the engine fine, but as soon as I remove the object it immediately moves left to the stop and shuts off with the linkage connected. Again it seems to run fine with the linkage disconnected from the solenoid so it seems to me thatnothing is telling the solenoid to pull the spring inward to get it off the stop.  I haven't been able to locate a new bulb yet for the instrument panel and was wondering if having the entire instrument panel disconnected would have an effect on that.

 

How long could I let the moter run with these problems?  I'd like to move it out of the yard and clean it up some while it's 'down', but don't want to mess anything up electronically.  If I could, I'd probably go ahead and load it on the trailer or at least get it ready to load.  I cannot get the trailer to where it is currently located.

 

I undestand your concern with spam etc., but here is my email address (sonnywise@bellsouth.net) should you want to email me outside the forum.  I'll email my telephone number to you and you could call me collect if needed/desired.  I appreciate all the help.

TriHonu is not online. Last active: 9/6/2014 3:57:29 PM TriHonu
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Re: Bobcat 753 Solenoid problems
Posted: 09/01/2008 10:37 AM

Sonny, sorry to hear of your problems.  I have went through a similar situation on a 763C.

To move the loader back home:
1. Disconnect the 3 wire harness from the fuel shut-off solenoid.
2. Push the fuel lever on the pump open and wedge it open with a piece of wood or wire.
3. Start loader and drive home.

To diagnose the problem, I would start with the electrical. 

The BOSS System is nothing more than a system that monitors a group of sensors attached to the engine and hydraulics.  It monitors the sensors and if a sensors reports that it is out of the acceptable range the graphic display in the cab will light up and error code and warning light.  Then it opens a relay that turns off power to the fuel shut-off solenoid.  The BOSS system has a timer and while any sensor is reporting outside of acceptable limits, it uses the fuel shutoff timer to only power the fuel shutoff solenoid for 30 seconds.  This allows you to start the loader and run it for 30 seconds.  Shut off the key and wait 10 seconds and then you can restart and run for another 30 seconds.

C series loaders have 4 square relays that plug into the main wiring harness below the air cleaner housing.  C series with the BOSS System have 5 relays.  All the relays are the same.  The relays do get weak and will fail.  They cost about $6 each.  After I replaced the first 2, I replaced them all.  The relays bolt to a metal strip.  I have an extra relay bolted to the backside of the strip.  That way when a relay fails, I just unplug the harness from the bad relay and plug it into the spare.

The metal strip originally had labels on it.  From rear to front  they are labeled STARTER, SWITCHED POWER, GLOW PLUGS, BRAKE, SHUTDOWN with Shutdown only on the BOSS equipped loaders.   Be aware that you can plug any of the harness plugs into any of these relays!  If someone has swapped harness plugs the labels will be WRONG!  The harness controls the function.   Mine had been swapped and I put in a new relay and it did not fix the problem.  I scratched my head until I pulled out the schematic and found on my machine the Shutdown harness has the Orange and Orange with Blue stripe wires.  That harness was plugged into the relay labeled Glow Plugs...

There are 4 wires going to each relay. Two wires power the coil that open and close the contracts on the other two wires. 
Black is the Ground for the coil.  Use a multimeter to make sure the ground is good. 
Red - is 12v power going to the switch in the relay.
The other two colored wires are power to the coil, and power from the Red going out to the item being controlled.

 

Disconnect the rod from the fuel shutoff solenoid to the pump.
Turn the key to the run position your fuel solenoid shoud pull in and hold firmly.

If not unplug the Fuel timer from the main harness.  The main harness plug has two red wires and one Black.  Check the voltage from Red to Black and then the Other Red to Black.  You should have 12+ volts at both Reds.  If so, plug the harness back into the Fuel Timer.

Unplug the Fuel Timer from the Solenoid.  The plug on the Fuel Timer has three wires Red, White and Black.  Check the Voltage Between Red and Black.  You should have 12+ volts.  This powers the hold coil in the Shutoff Solenoid.  Plug the harness back into the Fuel Solenoid.   Push the rod on the solenoid into the solenoid.  It should hold in and you shouldn't be able to pull it back out.

To check the Coil that Opens the Fuel Solenoid it is easier with two people.  Turn off the key.  Unplug the fuel timer from the Fuel Solenoid  Attach a multimeter to the Fuel Timer Plugs white wire to black wire.  Watch the meter when the key is turned on.  You should get 12+ volts for a few seconds and then the voltage should drop and continue to drop.  This is the circuit that powers the Fuel Solenoid Open Coil.  The open coil is more powerful and is only powered for a few seconds to pull the lever open and then the hold coil is powered to keep the valve open.


763, auger, Bradco Backhoe, hydraulic handheld breaker, 4in1 buckets, forks, Industrial Grader, pan grapple, landplane with hydraulic scarifier, snow blower, snow plow, Soil Conditioner, Sweeper, Tilt-Tatch, OTT, U-Digger
Tazza is not online. Last active: 9/17/2014 9:42:26 PM Tazza
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Re: Bobcat 753 Solenoid problems
Posted: 09/01/2008 01:42 PM

One other thing to try is turn the key on, push the plunger in and see if it clicks in and stays, this would confirm your hold coil is working. Then try holding the plunger say an inch from the bottom of the coil, bump the starter and see if it pulls home. I don't know exactly how they are wired but older ones were wired to the starter so when you cranked the pull coil would pull the plunger in and the hold coil would hold it there after it starts, no timer was required.


Bobcat 763 burntSadbut i'm working on it!, 04 S150 with air and a smooshed cab, S250 turbo.
Sonny is not online. Last active: 11/11/2008 2:31:37 PM Sonny
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Re: Bobcat 753 Solenoid problems
Posted: 09/02/2008 03:31 AM

Thanks for the detailed post, I plan to work on it later this morning and will post the results.  I know I'm going to have to make another run to the dealer for more parts, so I hope to get all I need in one more trip.  Having a spare relay on board sounds like a good idea as well.  I'll post my findings before going for parts to see if there are additional suggestions.

I haven't spent any real time in the cab to get familiar with the BOSS and currently the bulb is shot.  I have been using the backhoe attachment all this time and may have even been 'warned' of this problem by the BOSS and didn't know it.  I recall hearing 3 beeps from it the first time I used the backhoe for a couple of hours and then it shut down. I 'assumed' that it needed fuel even though the guage indicated otherwise, because it ran fine after I went and got more fuel.  I'll also see if it will run for more than 30 seconds with the linkage to the fuel solenoid disconnected. If so, I'll get it moved to a better work site and clean is up some before pulling the relays.  It doesn't look like that area hav been cleaned out in a while. I guess I ought to use the air compressor rather than pressure washer for that area to be safe. I'll also have to get a multimeter to check the voltage and admit already that I have never used one so I'll probably even need help with doing that as well.  Sorry I am such a novice.

Again, Thanks to all for the help!!  I'd be at the mercy of a dealership 50 miles away without all of you. My first two weeks as a Bobcat owner has been very educational and I keep reminding myself, that if I own one I must learn to work on it and couldn't do it without everyone's input.

Tazza is not online. Last active: 9/17/2014 9:42:26 PM Tazza
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Re: Bobcat 753 Solenoid problems
Posted: 09/02/2008 04:58 AM

A multi-meter is handy, but a test light is probably a better option. Simply attach one end to the chassis and probe around the wires till the light comes on, this indicates power. A multi-meter will tell you how much power which the light will not show. They are both handy items to have.

A multi-meter is simple to use, just ensure its set to what you want to read! don't have it on ohms to read power or POOF it will blow up. NEVER try and read current of it exceeds the measuring capacity of the meter or again POOF (done that in the past, ate up a $300 meter...). 99% of the time for a skid steer you want voltage, DC so if its not auto ranging set it to higher than the voltage you are reading eg 20v range. Yep, i play with electronics... Yes, such a nerd i know!


Bobcat 763 burntSadbut i'm working on it!, 04 S150 with air and a smooshed cab, S250 turbo.
Sonny is not online. Last active: 11/11/2008 2:31:37 PM Sonny
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Re: Bobcat 753 Solenoid problems
Posted: 09/03/2008 07:59 PM

I want to thank everyone for all the assistance and information.  I have learned alot from those who were kind enough to provide their posts.  The solenoid wouldn't move on its own, no matter what I did and even though I did find a bulb (local electronics store) that at least fit the BOSS,  I then discovered that it wasn't getting any power either.

Out of sheer frustration, I called the dealership and asked if I broght it in could they check it out while I was their without having to leave it.  When they agreed to look at it when I got there, I broke down this morning and loaded my Bobcat up and took it to the dealership for assistance.  We found a pinched wire, repaired it, put in a new light bulb, found a blown fuse that I had previously checked that was good then and adjusted the solenoid and all is working again.

Quite honestly, I was suprised that they would do that and the information all of you provided me helped me explain what all I had done and what should have happened, but didn't.  I really think the info each of you provided and I passed on to the guy working on it made a huge difference.  I saw the look of bewilderness in his eyes a few times and just quoted some of posts all of you provided and it helped him narrow down alot of things and got me going again. 

I think he was suprised that I sounded like I knew what I was talking about even though I admidittedly acknowledge that I don't, but it was like all of you were there suggesting this and that etc. and it was a great help.  I told him I didn't really know 'Jack' about these things, but this forum had armed me with a wealth of information that helped get the Job done.

 

Again THANKS to ALL who helped me out.  BTW:  Parts and labors was <$68 and I think he threw in the 'free' Bobcat hat for possibly learning something himself.

Tazza is not online. Last active: 9/17/2014 9:42:26 PM Tazza
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Re: Bobcat 753 Solenoid problems
Posted: 09/03/2008 08:21 PM

Thats a good deal!

I know Ron won't agree but i have found their service is excellent, they are happy to talk you through problems if you call them up. They know you need to buy your parts off them so the time spent on the phone is made up when you buy the parts you need.

Glad your machine is working again!


Bobcat 763 burntSadbut i'm working on it!, 04 S150 with air and a smooshed cab, S250 turbo.
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