ULSD fuel concerns

[Bandit1047]

Hi Guys,
I write an "Ask Joe" column for a local paper and I am writing about the new ULSD fuel that is mandated by the EPA here in the states. Can I get you guys to comment on any experiance you have had with this ULSD fuel even if you have had no noticable change in performance or problems, I would like to know. You guys in other countries that don't live under EPA rules are welcome to comment on what type of regulations and fuel you use. Thanks for your help! Joe

 

[siduramaxde]

I run 4 different diesel motors on ULSD and I have not noticed a difference from LSD. One of the diesel motors is in a newer truck that requires the ULSD and the other motors are older and seem to run fine on ULSD.

 

[Jeffscarstrucks]

I run 4 different diesel motors on ULSD and I have not noticed a difference from LSD. One of the diesel motors is in a newer truck that requires the ULSD and the other motors are older and seem to run fine on ULSD.

My son just put a new pump on his Cummins in his pick-up and we asked the man who owns the pump/injector shop that same question. He said that the long term effect of using ulsd would show up as a lack of lubrication in the pump itself. He was not trying to sell us on additive from him but did recommend Stanadyne additive. I am not saying that his word is it but your local injector shop might be a place to look....and report back! I do run Power Service or Stanadyne in my trucks and old ASV as well as the Cat equipment at the farm but I can not give you a quantifiable answer as to its benefit or lack of it. Let us know how your research turns out, JEFF

 

[jklingel]

My son just put a new pump on his Cummins in his pick-up and we asked the man who owns the pump/injector shop that same question. He said that the long term effect of using ulsd would show up as a lack of lubrication in the pump itself. He was not trying to sell us on additive from him but did recommend Stanadyne additive. I am not saying that his word is it but your local injector shop might be a place to look....and report back! I do run Power Service or Stanadyne in my trucks and old ASV as well as the Cat equipment at the farm but I can not give you a quantifiable answer as to its benefit or lack of it. Let us know how your research turns out, JEFF

Here is a link you may find helpful. http://www.thedieselstop.com/forums...-older-diesels-not-our-u-s-government-168690/ If not, poke around over there and I think you'll find answers, if not discussions.

 

[finn01]

Here is a link you may find helpful. http://www.thedieselstop.com/forums/f33/why-has-australian-government-protected-older-diesels-not-our-u-s-government-168690/ If not, poke around over there and I think you'll find answers, if not discussions.

I was an Engineering Director for a major US based diesel producer prior to retirement this year, and was responsible for, among other things, fuel systems and all of the alternative / advanced fuel work we did. The talk of reduced lubricity with ULSD fuels is pretty much nonsense, as the final spec for these fuels includes, for the first time, a minimum spec for lubricity. We found a lot of really poor lubricity fuels, particularly Canadian tar sand sourced fuels distributed in the upper midwest prior to the adoption of the ULSD specs. The new, made to spec fuels are fine as far as lubricity goes. Where you will find problems is in the fuel system elastomer seals in older engines. The seals have been "seasoned" with the old fuels but the aromatic content of the new fuels is different, resulting in hardening of old seals. Modern seals are compounded differently and are fully compatable. Changing the seals on older engines is inevitable, although it should be fairly inexpensive Alan

 

[jklingel]

I was an Engineering Director for a major US based diesel producer prior to retirement this year, and was responsible for, among other things, fuel systems and all of the alternative / advanced fuel work we did. The talk of reduced lubricity with ULSD fuels is pretty much nonsense, as the final spec for these fuels includes, for the first time, a minimum spec for lubricity. We found a lot of really poor lubricity fuels, particularly Canadian tar sand sourced fuels distributed in the upper midwest prior to the adoption of the ULSD specs. The new, made to spec fuels are fine as far as lubricity goes. Where you will find problems is in the fuel system elastomer seals in older engines. The seals have been "seasoned" with the old fuels but the aromatic content of the new fuels is different, resulting in hardening of old seals. Modern seals are compounded differently and are fully compatable. Changing the seals on older engines is inevitable, although it should be fairly inexpensive Alan

Alan:Thanks very much for that information. I've been going out of my way to get LSD, and it is a pain keeping it separate from my ULSD. I've been running the LSD in my '04 skid steer for two years now (bought it new 2 yrs ago.) Would you assume that switching to ULSD will be fine, and I won't have any seal problems, or should I stick w/ the LSD until it is no longer available? Thanks. john

 

[finn01]

Alan:Thanks very much for that information. I've been going out of my way to get LSD, and it is a pain keeping it separate from my ULSD. I've been running the LSD in my '04 skid steer for two years now (bought it new 2 yrs ago.) Would you assume that switching to ULSD will be fine, and I won't have any seal problems, or should I stick w/ the LSD until it is no longer available? Thanks. john

I believe most manufacturers upgraded their elastomers / seals by the late 90's so you should be ok. The seals in question are in the low pressure system so they are usually easy to replace (supply lines, injector leak offs, etc). Even off road fuel will be ULSD soon, so why wait? Alan

 

[jklingel]

I believe most manufacturers upgraded their elastomers / seals by the late 90's so you should be ok. The seals in question are in the low pressure system so they are usually easy to replace (supply lines, injector leak offs, etc). Even off road fuel will be ULSD soon, so why wait? Alan

Thanks; I see no need to wait now. BTW: Since you have experience in this area, what is your opinion on running heating oil, which is about $1.20/gal cheaper than diesel? It stands to reason that it is cheaper for a reason, namely it is just not the same product, and probably lacks certain critical properties, like lubricity.

 

[finn01]

Thanks; I see no need to wait now. BTW: Since you have experience in this area, what is your opinion on running heating oil, which is about $1.20/gal cheaper than diesel? It stands to reason that it is cheaper for a reason, namely it is just not the same product, and probably lacks certain critical properties, like lubricity.

Heating oil is a much lower quality fuel: poor cleanliness spec, low cetane, no lubricity spec, etc. Basically, the specs for heating oil are wide open compared to Diesel fuel, so even though it may burn in a Diesel engine, it's not worth the long term (or short term for that matter) risk, especially in modern, high performance fuel systems. It's Russian Roulette as far as I'm concerned. Alan

 

[jklingel]

Heating oil is a much lower quality fuel: poor cleanliness spec, low cetane, no lubricity spec, etc. Basically, the specs for heating oil are wide open compared to Diesel fuel, so even though it may burn in a Diesel engine, it's not worth the long term (or short term for that matter) risk, especially in modern, high performance fuel systems. It's Russian Roulette as far as I'm concerned. Alan

"It's Russian Roulette as far as I'm concerned." Not a game I ever considered playing. Thanks. john

 

[Bandit1047]

"It's Russian Roulette as far as I'm concerned." Not a game I ever considered playing. Thanks. john

Thanks Guys!
I appreciate the input! I have had great responses from Lubrizol to Cummins and after all my research I believe that it is safe to run this fuel in all post 1990 diesel engines with little chance of problems. I also run 5 different diesel engines and have had no problems to date.
Joe