purchasing a used new holland

[jsinpa]

Hi everyone. I'm new to the site and have a couple of questions. We, my family I should say, own a commercial construction business and I'm looking to purchase a used skid steer to help out with moving materials around on job sites. I've run bobcats, case, john deere, and cats all before, but never a new holland. My understanding is that new hollands have the best overall balance and lifting ability, along with smooth turning capability. The material I'll be moving around is typically in crates and can weight as much as 2,000-2500lbs. I've tested several LS180's in the 2000 year range and have noticed a loud whining as I was driving them. Is that typical for the older NH's? I've noticed that on some other brands as well, but it didn't seem as loud..then again, its been a while since I've driven any of the other brands.

 

[skidsteer.ca]

I have never run a 180 but it should be very stable with a 2500 lb load.
Can't comment on the noise.
As a rule NH uses a longer wheelbase then many other manufactures and that makes for a smoother ride on rough terrain. Also they tend to have more weight on the front end so you can drive up steeper hills without a load on the front, then compared to say a many bobcats that are light on the front end.
I'm very happy with my 160. Not saying there is nothing better but I don't feel it is lacking in any way either.
Ken

 

[Earthwerks Unlimited]

I have never run a 180 but it should be very stable with a 2500 lb load.
Can't comment on the noise.
As a rule NH uses a longer wheelbase then many other manufactures and that makes for a smoother ride on rough terrain. Also they tend to have more weight on the front end so you can drive up steeper hills without a load on the front, then compared to say a many bobcats that are light on the front end.
I'm very happy with my 160. Not saying there is nothing better but I don't feel it is lacking in any way either.
Ken

Stay away from the LS180s. I had an '03 and got ear infections from the loud whining. A sound meter test showed 110dB--a jet engine is 140dB. New Holland bought mine back and I bought an LS185.b which has a totally different pump and drive system---no whining, but the engine is loud having an enclosed cab. BTW a two speed 180 is even louder in high gear.

 

[jsinpa]

Stay away from the LS180s. I had an '03 and got ear infections from the loud whining. A sound meter test showed 110dB--a jet engine is 140dB. New Holland bought mine back and I bought an LS185.b which has a totally different pump and drive system---no whining, but the engine is loud having an enclosed cab. BTW a two speed 180 is even louder in high gear.

Is that just a thing with the LS180s? Or is that normal with all the New Hollands, regardless of model? I'm guessing the whining has to do with the drive system, correct? Because I didn't notice it with the engine (as I played with the throttle) as much as i did while just driving it. Would it help at all wearing some type of ear protection? Believe me, I would much rather get a newer model, but with the economy being the way it is, I really don't want a huge payment on equipment. The one I looked at was a 2000 with about 3000hrs and the price was good. The hydros seemed very strong on it and so did the hydraulics on the arms and the machine ran well.

 

[Earthwerks Unlimited]

Is that just a thing with the LS180s? Or is that normal with all the New Hollands, regardless of model? I'm guessing the whining has to do with the drive system, correct? Because I didn't notice it with the engine (as I played with the throttle) as much as i did while just driving it. Would it help at all wearing some type of ear protection? Believe me, I would much rather get a newer model, but with the economy being the way it is, I really don't want a huge payment on equipment. The one I looked at was a 2000 with about 3000hrs and the price was good. The hydros seemed very strong on it and so did the hydraulics on the arms and the machine ran well.

As far as what New Holland told me, the drive pumps sit side by side on the front of the flywheel housing. The flywheel has internal teeth set on the inside perimter of the flywheel. These are straight-cut gears which are noisey to begin with. The noise comes from the chatter of the pump gears and the natural vibration of the pumps themselves. You could wear hearing protection but I doubt it will help as I could feel the vibration through and in my jaw and skull

 

[Earthwerks Unlimited]

As far as what New Holland told me, the drive pumps sit side by side on the front of the flywheel housing. The flywheel has internal teeth set on the inside perimter of the flywheel. These are straight-cut gears which are noisey to begin with. The noise comes from the chatter of the pump gears and the natural vibration of the pumps themselves. You could wear hearing protection but I doubt it will help as I could feel the vibration through and in my jaw and skull

Far as I know it is only the 180 line. I know guys with 170's and 665's (same basic machine) that are very quiet all around BUT they're. Not in the same class as an 180 either.

 

[jsinpa]

Far as I know it is only the 180 line. I know guys with 170's and 665's (same basic machine) that are very quiet all around BUT they're. Not in the same class as an 180 either.

from what you were saying in your earlier post, that is what the salesman at the dealership was telling me, as far as the gears work, so I could see it being a little louder. I know the LX885 is the older model to the LS180, are they the same way as far as that noise also? How are the LX885s? Basically, I'll only be using it for an hour or so here and there on job sites to move our material crates around when needed, so its not like I would be using it all day, everyday like an excavator would be. The only time I would be running it for an extended amount of time is when I would be using it for snow removal. So, I guess the thing I have to think about is, can I handle dealing with that whining noise for a little while here and there. I'll be lucky if I would even put 100-200hrs a year on it. The one I tested and interested in ran very smooth with no jarring. I will say, used New Holland's are tough to find around here, and out of the other ones, I've seen and tested, this one seemed to be in the best shape. I don't know if I mentioned it before, but its a 2000 with about 3000hrs on it. Originally, they wanted $14k for it, but are willing to go down to $11k range. Is that a good deal? Most of the other ones I've seen and priced have 3500+hrs and are more like $13,500-$15k. By the way, I appreciate all your help so far! Josh

 

[jerry]

from what you were saying in your earlier post, that is what the salesman at the dealership was telling me, as far as the gears work, so I could see it being a little louder. I know the LX885 is the older model to the LS180, are they the same way as far as that noise also? How are the LX885s? Basically, I'll only be using it for an hour or so here and there on job sites to move our material crates around when needed, so its not like I would be using it all day, everyday like an excavator would be. The only time I would be running it for an extended amount of time is when I would be using it for snow removal. So, I guess the thing I have to think about is, can I handle dealing with that whining noise for a little while here and there. I'll be lucky if I would even put 100-200hrs a year on it. The one I tested and interested in ran very smooth with no jarring. I will say, used New Holland's are tough to find around here, and out of the other ones, I've seen and tested, this one seemed to be in the best shape. I don't know if I mentioned it before, but its a 2000 with about 3000hrs on it. Originally, they wanted $14k for it, but are willing to go down to $11k range. Is that a good deal? Most of the other ones I've seen and priced have 3500+hrs and are more like $13,500-$15k. By the way, I appreciate all your help so far! Josh

I looked at messicks.com diagrams and the lx885 appears to have the same pump drive system as the ls180. That is they are gear driven from the flywheel. The lx665 uses a tandem pump with a flex plate coupler between engine and pump. I have the 665 and mine is quiet except for groans when turning. Don't buy a noisy one or you will regret it for that 100-200 hours a year.

 

[jsinpa]

I looked at messicks.com diagrams and the lx885 appears to have the same pump drive system as the ls180. That is they are gear driven from the flywheel. The lx665 uses a tandem pump with a flex plate coupler between engine and pump. I have the 665 and mine is quiet except for groans when turning. Don't buy a noisy one or you will regret it for that 100-200 hours a year.

Jerry, are you from the Harrisburg/Lancaster or surrounding area that you know about Messicks?? That is one of the places I have been talking with and they seem like very good people to deal with. My understanding is that with having that pump drive system and being gear driven from the flywheel, that is how they are. Apparently with having that set up, that is just kind of how those machines are. If that is the case, is there a way for me to know what is too noisy vs. it just being the "norm" with that machine? I guess my biggest problem is, with not having a lot of knowledge and experience, i don't know really know what is normal vs. not normal.

 

[Earthwerks Unlimited]

Jerry, are you from the Harrisburg/Lancaster or surrounding area that you know about Messicks?? That is one of the places I have been talking with and they seem like very good people to deal with. My understanding is that with having that pump drive system and being gear driven from the flywheel, that is how they are. Apparently with having that set up, that is just kind of how those machines are. If that is the case, is there a way for me to know what is too noisy vs. it just being the "norm" with that machine? I guess my biggest problem is, with not having a lot of knowledge and experience, i don't know really know what is normal vs. not normal.

 

[Earthwerks Unlimited]

My buddy has '99 LX885 and it so quiet enginewise and hydraulically. I wish mine was like it.

 

[jerry]

Jerry, are you from the Harrisburg/Lancaster or surrounding area that you know about Messicks?? That is one of the places I have been talking with and they seem like very good people to deal with. My understanding is that with having that pump drive system and being gear driven from the flywheel, that is how they are. Apparently with having that set up, that is just kind of how those machines are. If that is the case, is there a way for me to know what is too noisy vs. it just being the "norm" with that machine? I guess my biggest problem is, with not having a lot of knowledge and experience, i don't know really know what is normal vs. not normal.

jsinpa, I am in Minnesota, land of 10000 frozen lakes. I just go to messicks to look up things and their pricing is very close to the dealers here. I have run machines that are much quieter than my New Holland but I do like the ease of entry and stability of the machine and it does lift a lot.

 

[jsinpa]

jsinpa, I am in Minnesota, land of 10000 frozen lakes. I just go to messicks to look up things and their pricing is very close to the dealers here. I have run machines that are much quieter than my New Holland but I do like the ease of entry and stability of the machine and it does lift a lot.

So from it sounds like from what everyone is saying, the ls180s are smooth operating, great lifting ability, and powerful, etc...overall good machines, but the drawback with them is the loud whining of how the gears, flywheel, etc are set up....So I guess it comes down to if I can handle the whining noise they make which can be loud.....

 

[Earthwerks Unlimited]

So from it sounds like from what everyone is saying, the ls180s are smooth operating, great lifting ability, and powerful, etc...overall good machines, but the drawback with them is the loud whining of how the gears, flywheel, etc are set up....So I guess it comes down to if I can handle the whining noise they make which can be loud.....

It depends on how long you're planning on keeping it. It will be much harder to sell down the line because of gear whine. Just my opinion. New Holland, when they bought mine back said it was $4500 fix to reduce gear noise. BUT they have. Seen them get louder after the so-called fix too. That's why I took the option to have them buy mine back---plus they knocked off like $14000 off the new one, paid off the old one, and gave me a 2.99 interest rate. Oh yeah I mentioned I had a laywer which may have had an impct on it too. Hahahahaha

 

[jsinpa]

It depends on how long you're planning on keeping it. It will be much harder to sell down the line because of gear whine. Just my opinion. New Holland, when they bought mine back said it was $4500 fix to reduce gear noise. BUT they have. Seen them get louder after the so-called fix too. That's why I took the option to have them buy mine back---plus they knocked off like $14000 off the new one, paid off the old one, and gave me a 2.99 interest rate. Oh yeah I mentioned I had a laywer which may have had an impct on it too. Hahahahaha

I fig'd on keeping it for a few years until a newer model with say around 250-3000 hrs was available so I could keep the price reasonable..or I should say a reasonable budget for me. And that is one of the things I did and will talk more to the dealership about as far as when the time comes trading that one in. I'd definitely like to try your route (lawyer) but with not buying a new one, I don't think I'll get away with that..haha... While I'm thinking about it, what's a reasonable price for a set of pallet forks? 48" with 4000lb capacity....

 

[jerry]

I fig'd on keeping it for a few years until a newer model with say around 250-3000 hrs was available so I could keep the price reasonable..or I should say a reasonable budget for me. And that is one of the things I did and will talk more to the dealership about as far as when the time comes trading that one in. I'd definitely like to try your route (lawyer) but with not buying a new one, I don't think I'll get away with that..haha... While I'm thinking about it, what's a reasonable price for a set of pallet forks? 48" with 4000lb capacity....

I just got a new set of Bradco 48 inch for 625 , from what I found that was a reasonable price. I do like how heavy the mounting plate is made, it is not just quick attach plate welded on.

 

[jsinpa]

I just got a new set of Bradco 48 inch for 625 , from what I found that was a reasonable price. I do like how heavy the mounting plate is made, it is not just quick attach plate welded on.

Hey everyone....sorry its been a while..My father started a new division, so to speak in our business and I've been working like crazy. I ended up buying that 180...so far, its running great. I can't tell you how much time my guys are saving on the one job site it is on...just by being able to move all the crates around verses having to break them open and take it by pieces. Jerry, those are the forks I got, and you are right, they are great!!! I got those, plus a brand new 78" bucket thrown in for free on the purchase!

 

[jd2cylman]

Hey everyone....sorry its been a while..My father started a new division, so to speak in our business and I've been working like crazy. I ended up buying that 180...so far, its running great. I can't tell you how much time my guys are saving on the one job site it is on...just by being able to move all the crates around verses having to break them open and take it by pieces. Jerry, those are the forks I got, and you are right, they are great!!! I got those, plus a brand new 78" bucket thrown in for free on the purchase!

There is a dipstick under the seat between the drive pumps. Pull out the stick and check oil level. Oil is 80w90. Fill the reservoir from the street L pipe elbow above the left pump as you look in. You can switch to 85w140 if you want. In my experience, noisy pump drives have usually been damaged from lack of oil at some point in time. The gears that drive the pumps are just splined to the pump. Those splines can wear, allowing the gears to move too much. There is a drain plug to change the oil, but it is a PITA to get at. Another way is to remove the dipstick, place a tight fitting piece of rubber hose over the dipstick tube, and gently pressurize the gearcase. This will blow out most of the old oil, and then you can fill it back up with new oil. A common problem with the LX885, LX985, LS180, and LS190 was the gear box overfilling from bad (heat hardened) pump shaft seals. They would leak hydraulic oil (10w30) into the drive gearbox and dilute the 80w90 oil. This was mostly due to high heat from things like using the high range for heavy digging or high flow implements running for too long. Adrian

 

[chucky]

There is a dipstick under the seat between the drive pumps. Pull out the stick and check oil level. Oil is 80w90. Fill the reservoir from the street L pipe elbow above the left pump as you look in. You can switch to 85w140 if you want. In my experience, noisy pump drives have usually been damaged from lack of oil at some point in time. The gears that drive the pumps are just splined to the pump. Those splines can wear, allowing the gears to move too much. There is a drain plug to change the oil, but it is a PITA to get at. Another way is to remove the dipstick, place a tight fitting piece of rubber hose over the dipstick tube, and gently pressurize the gearcase. This will blow out most of the old oil, and then you can fill it back up with new oil. A common problem with the LX885, LX985, LS180, and LS190 was the gear box overfilling from bad (heat hardened) pump shaft seals. They would leak hydraulic oil (10w30) into the drive gearbox and dilute the 80w90 oil. This was mostly due to high heat from things like using the high range for heavy digging or high flow implements running for too long. Adrian

I have a ls 180 that is pushing oil out the gearbox breather , so suspect pump shaft seals like you mentioned . Does it hurt to run it like this for a while ? How big of a job to fix ? thks