I am having problems with an L180. Trying to figure out which relays are for the lights. I have the complete service manual. Manual has the schematics that show the current flow, and shows the relays, but I don't see anywhere in the manual where it actually shows the physical location of the relay. I guess I can cut loom off harness and trace the actual wire, but that seams like a lot of work. I would have thought somewhere in the manual it would tell which relay is which, but I sure don't see it...
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If your instrument panel is overhead, then I think you will need to lower the headliner and look to the right side where all the wiring is. I think they are in front of the fuse block. If your instrument panel is on the left post, then the relays are in the cab fuse and relay block.
Thanks. My dash is overhead. That makes sense since it appeared the relays in the engine compartment aren't associated with the lights... I will drop the headliner and take a look. I have an issue when I hit the headlight button it kills the engine...If your instrument panel is overhead, then I think you will need to lower the headliner and look to the right side where all the wiring is. I think they are in front of the fuse block. If your instrument panel is on the left post, then the relays are in the cab fuse and relay block.
Strange indeed. I took a closer look at the wiring diagrams. There is always two power sources at a relay. The supply voltage and the sense voltage. The supply voltage is the voltage which will light the lights in your situation. The sense. or control voltage, is what energizes the relay to send the supply voltage to the lights. The instrument panel supplies the sense voltage when you push the button. There is also a diode involved but should not really affect what you are experiencing. Now, the supply voltage originates at the run relay in the engine compartment. From there voltage is supplied to two of the fuse blocks, one in the engine compartment and the one in the cab. The cab fuse block contains two 15A fuses. The first 15A fuse should supply power to the lights and the second 15A fuse sends ign power to the instrument panel. The common element between the two 15A fuses is they are on the same supply link, in the case of the fuse block there should be a jumper wire between the two fuses of the supply side of the fuse. This is what I would do. Pull the first 15A fuse so no power can be sent to the lights. Then press the light button. If the engine remains running then you can assume the relays are not the cause of your problem and the problem lies in the supply voltage at the fuse block, such as a bad wire connections or corroded wires or terminals.Thanks. My dash is overhead. That makes sense since it appeared the relays in the engine compartment aren't associated with the lights... I will drop the headliner and take a look. I have an issue when I hit the headlight button it kills the engine...
On further thinking, it may also be the run relay itself. Those do go bad.Strange indeed. I took a closer look at the wiring diagrams. There is always two power sources at a relay. The supply voltage and the sense voltage. The supply voltage is the voltage which will light the lights in your situation. The sense. or control voltage, is what energizes the relay to send the supply voltage to the lights. The instrument panel supplies the sense voltage when you push the button. There is also a diode involved but should not really affect what you are experiencing. Now, the supply voltage originates at the run relay in the engine compartment. From there voltage is supplied to two of the fuse blocks, one in the engine compartment and the one in the cab. The cab fuse block contains two 15A fuses. The first 15A fuse should supply power to the lights and the second 15A fuse sends ign power to the instrument panel. The common element between the two 15A fuses is they are on the same supply link, in the case of the fuse block there should be a jumper wire between the two fuses of the supply side of the fuse. This is what I would do. Pull the first 15A fuse so no power can be sent to the lights. Then press the light button. If the engine remains running then you can assume the relays are not the cause of your problem and the problem lies in the supply voltage at the fuse block, such as a bad wire connections or corroded wires or terminals.
The run relay is the relay fartherest from the engine in the engine fuse and relay panel.On further thinking, it may also be the run relay itself. Those do go bad.
I will dig into things further.. A few other things I found -When I push the headlight button and it kills the engine the headlights will not latch in, the button kicks right off.. -I had already pulled the headlight fuse and when I do that the engine will run properly when the headlight button is pushed.. -The horn would also sometimes kill the engine, but not all the time.. -Do you think a bad ground up at the dash area could cause this? I assume when the lights come on its pulls the voltage down enough for the relay to kick out? Not necessarily a pinched or shorted wire? I was looking at the start interlock circuit and the fuel solenoid. I found the run relay now..that diagram is making more sense. Looks like a heavy orange wire is the one I need to look for and clean. -You said the run relay is farthest from the engine, so its one of the bigger relays, not one of the 5 prong smaller ones like in the Case tractors? -How does the run relay get power down to the fuel solenoid? When looking at the start interlock diagram it looks like the only way to get power to it is going though all the safety switchs (aux hydr etc) or the manual aux override button on the dash...The run relay is the relay fartherest from the engine in the engine fuse and relay panel.
Also, I got the machine to act up, and now it wont run at all...might make my troubleshooting a little easier...I will dig into things further.. A few other things I found -When I push the headlight button and it kills the engine the headlights will not latch in, the button kicks right off.. -I had already pulled the headlight fuse and when I do that the engine will run properly when the headlight button is pushed.. -The horn would also sometimes kill the engine, but not all the time.. -Do you think a bad ground up at the dash area could cause this? I assume when the lights come on its pulls the voltage down enough for the relay to kick out? Not necessarily a pinched or shorted wire? I was looking at the start interlock circuit and the fuel solenoid. I found the run relay now..that diagram is making more sense. Looks like a heavy orange wire is the one I need to look for and clean. -You said the run relay is farthest from the engine, so its one of the bigger relays, not one of the 5 prong smaller ones like in the Case tractors? -How does the run relay get power down to the fuel solenoid? When looking at the start interlock diagram it looks like the only way to get power to it is going though all the safety switchs (aux hydr etc) or the manual aux override button on the dash...
The instrument panel sends power to the fuel shut off solenoid. The power goes from the instrument panel to the aux switch on the hyd control valve and from there to the solenoid. However there is also a wire from the instrument panel that by-passes the aux switch to send power to the solenoid. On startup if the aux handle is not in neutral, the engine will not start. My guess is after the start power is removed from the instruemtn panel, engine running, the panel switches to the axu overide circuit to send power to the fuel shut off solenoid as long as you are in the seat and the seat belt fastened. If this was not the case then the engine would die when you operated the aux hyd handle. The aux overide button on the instrument panel allows the instrument panel to continue to send power through this axu overide circuit when you leave the seat with the aux handle in an operate position. Leaving the seat with the aux handle in an operate mode will kill the engine if you do not push the button first...........The start interlock circuit will not keep the engine from starting if the engine is cranking because all parameters are met for th engine to crank. There are six power sources going to the instrument panel, whiich voltage input circuit controls what output circuit I am not sure. Since the engine dies when the lights are turned on, I would think the power for the fuel shut off solenoid, when the engine is running, comes from the run relay circuit.I will dig into things further.. A few other things I found -When I push the headlight button and it kills the engine the headlights will not latch in, the button kicks right off.. -I had already pulled the headlight fuse and when I do that the engine will run properly when the headlight button is pushed.. -The horn would also sometimes kill the engine, but not all the time.. -Do you think a bad ground up at the dash area could cause this? I assume when the lights come on its pulls the voltage down enough for the relay to kick out? Not necessarily a pinched or shorted wire? I was looking at the start interlock circuit and the fuel solenoid. I found the run relay now..that diagram is making more sense. Looks like a heavy orange wire is the one I need to look for and clean. -You said the run relay is farthest from the engine, so its one of the bigger relays, not one of the 5 prong smaller ones like in the Case tractors? -How does the run relay get power down to the fuel solenoid? When looking at the start interlock diagram it looks like the only way to get power to it is going though all the safety switchs (aux hydr etc) or the manual aux override button on the dash...
I agree with you after studying the schematic this afternoon. The dash using the wire for the override circuit is the only way to get current to the fuel solenoid. It would be nice if NH explained that they use the dash computer to do that. Saves some guess work.. I did some work today. -Cleaned terminals in cab fuse box and ground by cab fuse block -Swapped run relay. No change in machine. -Cleaned most of engine fuse terminals. But didn't get them all done. I noticed an odd thing today while working on the machine. Currently when I sit in seat dash lights up, and shows fasten seat belt. Fasten seal belt and light goes out. When I turn key to ign, but don't crank, the dash goes dark. Like its not getting enough voltage. I dropped the key switch thinking corrosion there, and the thing looks brand new... I think I am just going to start popping connectors apart and cleaning. There must be something corroded somewhere that creating the problem...The instrument panel sends power to the fuel shut off solenoid. The power goes from the instrument panel to the aux switch on the hyd control valve and from there to the solenoid. However there is also a wire from the instrument panel that by-passes the aux switch to send power to the solenoid. On startup if the aux handle is not in neutral, the engine will not start. My guess is after the start power is removed from the instruemtn panel, engine running, the panel switches to the axu overide circuit to send power to the fuel shut off solenoid as long as you are in the seat and the seat belt fastened. If this was not the case then the engine would die when you operated the aux hyd handle. The aux overide button on the instrument panel allows the instrument panel to continue to send power through this axu overide circuit when you leave the seat with the aux handle in an operate position. Leaving the seat with the aux handle in an operate mode will kill the engine if you do not push the button first...........The start interlock circuit will not keep the engine from starting if the engine is cranking because all parameters are met for th engine to crank. There are six power sources going to the instrument panel, whiich voltage input circuit controls what output circuit I am not sure. Since the engine dies when the lights are turned on, I would think the power for the fuel shut off solenoid, when the engine is running, comes from the run relay circuit.
There are two diodes buried in the engine fuse compartment. If you shorted a wire when checking cirucits you could have blown the diode. Remove the run relay and turn the key to the on position. You should have power to two terminals in the relay base. One of the power source is the 15A fuse in the fuse block closese to the engine. The other power source is from the key switch, but goes through the diode before reaching the run relay base. If yours is like most engine fuse compartments you will not see the diodes. They are buried behind all the wiring and you need to dig for them. You will find what looks like a two terminal connector with a plug plugged into the connector. The plug is the diode. Can not remember which is which but look at the wire colors. Remove the diode and see if you have power to it from the key switch, if you have power there but none at the relay base, then the diode is blown. The first time I ran into this problem, a customer had accidently shorted a wire going to the windshield wiper.I agree with you after studying the schematic this afternoon. The dash using the wire for the override circuit is the only way to get current to the fuel solenoid. It would be nice if NH explained that they use the dash computer to do that. Saves some guess work.. I did some work today. -Cleaned terminals in cab fuse box and ground by cab fuse block -Swapped run relay. No change in machine. -Cleaned most of engine fuse terminals. But didn't get them all done. I noticed an odd thing today while working on the machine. Currently when I sit in seat dash lights up, and shows fasten seat belt. Fasten seal belt and light goes out. When I turn key to ign, but don't crank, the dash goes dark. Like its not getting enough voltage. I dropped the key switch thinking corrosion there, and the thing looks brand new... I think I am just going to start popping connectors apart and cleaning. There must be something corroded somewhere that creating the problem...
I had checked both those diodes when I first started this ordeal, but I will check them again since symptoms have changed...There are two diodes buried in the engine fuse compartment. If you shorted a wire when checking cirucits you could have blown the diode. Remove the run relay and turn the key to the on position. You should have power to two terminals in the relay base. One of the power source is the 15A fuse in the fuse block closese to the engine. The other power source is from the key switch, but goes through the diode before reaching the run relay base. If yours is like most engine fuse compartments you will not see the diodes. They are buried behind all the wiring and you need to dig for them. You will find what looks like a two terminal connector with a plug plugged into the connector. The plug is the diode. Can not remember which is which but look at the wire colors. Remove the diode and see if you have power to it from the key switch, if you have power there but none at the relay base, then the diode is blown. The first time I ran into this problem, a customer had accidently shorted a wire going to the windshield wiper.
I think I got it. Corrosion in the main feed to the far right fuse block in the engine compartment. Terminal didn't look that bad, but both fuse and terminal had a layer of corrosion on them. All electrical functions on the machine should have been affected but for some reason only the lights killed the engine. The blower motor didn't... Machine was used in chicken house. At some point the a/c, heater housing get bent. This allowed dirt/manure/dust to be sucked into the housing. Junk clogged the water drain in the housing. The soupy water/manure dripped down out of the housing. The cover for the fuse panel was missing allowing the gunk to get into the fuse block and corrode the terminals.. Another good example of why maintenance needs to be done and covers need to be kept in place...5 hrs to find the problem. 15 minutes to fix it...I had checked both those diodes when I first started this ordeal, but I will check them again since symptoms have changed...
