Team, The Wisconsin V-4 in my 700 finally threw a rod. Sooner than rebuild, I came across a Kubota V2203 to swap in. The V2203 will be a bit long and will require modification of the rear compartment door, but.......... My big procrastination right now is fabricating the motor mounts. Plan is to bolt side plates to the motor in 4 places (front and rear on right and left side) then bolt some heavy 4" angle iron into place where the big heavy plate that carried the Wisconsin was bolted (now removed). The 4" angle will run parallel to the motor on each side and act as my "frame" (in car speak). Between the side plates on the motor and the 4" angle, I was going to cut and weld 4" I-beam sections (front, rear, left, right). But..................I am wide open to suggestions or recommended change of direction on the motor mounts. If anyone has photos of a similar swap/repower, I would be in your debt if you could post so I have a visual for my little mind's eye. Thanks in advance. Jim
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SkidRoe
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I have never heard of anyone doing such a job, nothing in the Repower Section. Sounds quite doable. As for mounts, you may want to have a look at how it was done in a 743 - similar motor, longitudinal mounting. The extra length should not be too hard to accomodate, by spacing out the back door. What are you thinking for a cooling system? Pictures, Pictures, Pictures!!!
SkidR' - Thanks for reply - and for checking the repower section for me. I did not find that area. I need to get my camera fixed, but will do so and post some photos. Cooling - I acquired a nice aluminum radiator that I will need to fab mounts for. Plan to mount between cab and lift arm support structure. Has electric fan.
HanSolo
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As another M700 owner I'll definitely be following this retro-fit. Have you considered the differences in weight? Losing the VH4D and mounting plate will probably be about 500 lbs. Then add back the weight of the Kubota engine for your machine counterweight.
HanS, Good day to you. Yes, trying to keep weights somewhat similar - but haven't calculated yet. Worst case, I will add counterweights in the bottom of the engine bay.
SkidRoe
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I was just looking at some pictures of Han's resto, and something just dawned on me: You may want to check on the crank rotation direction before you get too far into this. The M700 drives off of what would normally be the front of the V4 Wisconsin engine. So unless the V4 engine turns in the opposite direction than normal (possible, I guess), you may have an issue. Worth looking into just to be safe.
That might be the best recommendation I have received all year - maybe decade. Would have never stopped to think about the rotation. Thank you.
Team, SkidRoe's insight has left me...........clueless. Seeking insight from group on how one would go about researching rotation of the engines. The original Wisconsin setup ran the U-joint coupler off the flywheel end of the engine. Flywheel side is normally the rear of engine, but I am in agreement with Skid that this is the "front" on Wisconsin engines. Any insight is greatly appreciated.
ancomcabs
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My 630 has th Wisconsin engine, flyweel facing out when looking at it from the back and the rotation is clockwise if that is of any help
SkidRoe
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That sounds like what I would call typical. But it still could be that they reversed the rotation of the engine for the M700. cp7 has a running M700, hopefully he will see this and be able to comment.
When I open the door on my 630 I'm also looking at the flywheel and on the M700 it's the pto side.
They reversed the engine which would also reverse the rotation. Both are VH4Ds.
Gents, Defaulting into what - I hope - leads to the easiest answer: Since both starters would sit on the "driver's" side of the engine - and low on the flywheel, I am going to hook a battery to each starter and pray that they both spin the same direction. It will likely take me a few days to build up the gumption as...........if they don't spin same direction..............I am not sure what I am going to do with the whole darn project. I really appreciate everyone's assistance.
SkidRoe
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Fingers crossed. But I am sure that a solution can be found; after all, doing the impossible just takes a little longer!!
Even a little easier might be to look at the fan on the flywheel.
It will push air the direction of rotation.
Looking from the end with the alternator, the engine rotates clockwise i believe. If you hook up a starter to your dead engine, see if it rotates the same way?
I thought that there were only a few engines that spun backwards, hopefully they never made it into bobcats....
HanSolo
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The M700s Wisconsin motor turns counter-clockwise when viewed from the rear of the machine. The flywheel is attached to the tapered crank that protrudes through the timing gears on the front of the engine. The rear stub of the crank is actually visible on the rear of the engine and has TDC marks. Therefore when you view the front of the engine, crank rotation is clockwise. But you're looking at the flywheel with u-joint attached to hydraulic pump. An odd arrangement but apparently the VH4D engine could be configured with several different cranks for different machines. The Wisconsin rebuilder confirmed that with me before I shipped. He said he could swop cranks and timing covers to reconfigure from one application to another. Have you considered rebuilding the original engine?
HanS, Rebuilding the Wisconsin was/is probably the way to go. I liked the idea of going with a diesel powerplant and now have the Kubota - plus all the misc I purchased for it. So.............I am hoping that the Kubota V2203 will have the same rotation as the Wisconsin when similarly mounted. OR........I was looking at the front of the crankshaft of the 2203. The snout is splined. If I can find a U-joint slip spline yolk that will fit the crank snout, I can spin the motor around and mate it to the hydraulic pump via the front of the engine. Not what I desire, but........ You guys have given me a ton of great advice - Forest above the Tree view (if you will). If there is an absolute reason that I should not take power off the front of crankshaft - please let me know. I was trying to copy/paste some photos, but I don't think I am at an approved level with the site yet. So, here are some photos of my little 700 with the Wisconsin still in her: http://s1102.beta.photobucket.com/user/tttahoe1/library/Bobcat%20M700 Some photos of the 2203 with the splines on the front crank: http://s1102.beta.photobucket.com/user/tttahoe1/library/Kubota%20V2203%20items
HanSolo
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Looking at the photos I think if you can adapt that front spline on your Kubota to the receiver on the OEM u-joint or change the receiver/u-joint assembly to match - you'll be in business. Another thing to consider will be HP difference and rev matching the Kubota to the Wisconsin specs. IIRC the Wisconsin normal operating speed is 2800 RPM @ 30 HP. I guess some bad things could happen to the hydraulics should those numbers be exceeded (others here will certainly know more about that than I do). I've been looking at photos of the water cooled, Ford powered 722 from the same series. Bobcat mounted the small radiator in a box above the engine. I don't know if that radiator was convection cooled or included an electric fan. I'd think there would have to be something pushing air through it in that high temp area. Looks like you've got a really nice example of a M700 though. Really clean. I remember those six lug wheels and skinny tires from later model Bobcats (early 800 series) that I operated as a young man. What's the serial number on yours?
