722 No Charge Pressure

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ChandlerW

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I'm still working with this 722. It has no charge pressure. I pulled off the vane pump housing to see if the splines were stripped or anything was broken or missing.
The vane pump housing has a deep groove and one little chip missing on a side.
Will this wear ring cause low pressure from the vane pump?
vanepumphousing_zps331af36e.jpg
 
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ChandlerW

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I seen a video on how to reverse the flow in a vane pump so now I'm wondering if I assembled it backwards when I put it back together.
 

Tazza

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I seen a video on how to reverse the flow in a vane pump so now I'm wondering if I assembled it backwards when I put it back together.
The mark on the wear ring would reduce the flow, not remove all flow like you are having.
It is always possible the ring is around the wrong way when you put it back on.... Did you mark it before pulling it apart?
Vane pumps generally have a cam ring i think they call it, this is what the vanes run inside to generate pressure. If you flip it over, the flow is reversed. There is mostly an arrow that points to the direction it must rotate.
 
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ChandlerW

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The mark on the wear ring would reduce the flow, not remove all flow like you are having.
It is always possible the ring is around the wrong way when you put it back on.... Did you mark it before pulling it apart?
Vane pumps generally have a cam ring i think they call it, this is what the vanes run inside to generate pressure. If you flip it over, the flow is reversed. There is mostly an arrow that points to the direction it must rotate.
I checked last night and there was an arrow. I had it installed the right way to begin with.
However, now I'm starting to think there are no springs in the replenishing valves. I'm not able to check it right now, I will be able to check in a few hours. I think the previous owner had it apart and might have left them out to tow it. When I was trying to troubleshoot it before I don't seem to remember removing the spring to get the replenishing valves out. Think that would cause it to loose charge pressure?
 

Tazza

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I checked last night and there was an arrow. I had it installed the right way to begin with.
However, now I'm starting to think there are no springs in the replenishing valves. I'm not able to check it right now, I will be able to check in a few hours. I think the previous owner had it apart and might have left them out to tow it. When I was trying to troubleshoot it before I don't seem to remember removing the spring to get the replenishing valves out. Think that would cause it to loose charge pressure?
That is possible...... You can really only go step by step and hopefully find what is wrong/missing.
 
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ChandlerW

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That is possible...... You can really only go step by step and hopefully find what is wrong/missing.
Troubleshooting this vane pump. When I started to reassemble it something just don't look right. The shaft that spins the rotor is sitting only halfway in the rotor. And the plate looks as if it has a bronze bushing in it. Anyone know if there is supposed to be a shaft that goes in both the rotor and the plate? I can't think of why there would be a bronze bushing in there if it didn't have a shaft to support.
vanepump2_zps0f084122.jpg




vanehousing_zps28dcb178.jpg
 

antfarmer2

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Troubleshooting this vane pump. When I started to reassemble it something just don't look right. The shaft that spins the rotor is sitting only halfway in the rotor. And the plate looks as if it has a bronze bushing in it. Anyone know if there is supposed to be a shaft that goes in both the rotor and the plate? I can't think of why there would be a bronze bushing in there if it didn't have a shaft to support.
Wish I knew more or could see it from here but think your on to something
 
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ChandlerW

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Wish I knew more or could see it from here but think your on to something
It occurred to me that someone might have sawed off the end of the shaft. I could imagine the shaft would go all the way through and the end would be turned down on the lathe to fit the bronze bearing. If for some reason the previous owner sawed off the shaft it would look like it does now. I hope not.
 

Tazza

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It occurred to me that someone might have sawed off the end of the shaft. I could imagine the shaft would go all the way through and the end would be turned down on the lathe to fit the bronze bearing. If for some reason the previous owner sawed off the shaft it would look like it does now. I hope not.
That is very odd, the shaft should go all the way through and be supported by the bronze bushing on the end plate. Could the end have been broken off?
I believe this shaft actually screws into the shaft through the drive pumps. It is made this way just in case the pump locks up it will break this shaft which is cheaper to replace than the entrie shaft through the pumps.
 
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ChandlerW

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That is very odd, the shaft should go all the way through and be supported by the bronze bushing on the end plate. Could the end have been broken off?
I believe this shaft actually screws into the shaft through the drive pumps. It is made this way just in case the pump locks up it will break this shaft which is cheaper to replace than the entrie shaft through the pumps.
Any idea where I can get a replacement shaft? Bobcat parts online show it as no longer available. I'm checking sewlparts.com but would like to know of any other sources for used parts.
 

Tazza

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Any idea where I can get a replacement shaft? Bobcat parts online show it as no longer available. I'm checking sewlparts.com but would like to know of any other sources for used parts.
Talk to loader parts source, they can generally get anything hydraulic, they may be able to get one for you at a good price. That or confirm if something is indeed missing or not.
 
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ChandlerW

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Talk to loader parts source, they can generally get anything hydraulic, they may be able to get one for you at a good price. That or confirm if something is indeed missing or not.
No luck with Loader Parts Source. They will sell only the pump. I need something second hand.
 

Tazza

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No luck with Loader Parts Source. They will sell only the pump. I need something second hand.
That isn't much help at all, they have always been really good with parts.
I assume the price of a new pump is nasty?
 
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ChandlerW

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That isn't much help at all, they have always been really good with parts.
I assume the price of a new pump is nasty?
I may have found a shaft for this pump. I've found a few between $58 and $75. Its just a matter of finding the right one.
 

Tazza

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I may have found a shaft for this pump. I've found a few between $58 and $75. Its just a matter of finding the right one.
I'd take measurements and hopefully find the correct one. Same spline number and shaft diameter at the end. There is a bearing there, so you know what it should be.
 
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ChandlerW

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I'd take measurements and hopefully find the correct one. Same spline number and shaft diameter at the end. There is a bearing there, so you know what it should be.
Got a voice mail from Loader Parts Source. Pete was responding to my email. A couple of days earlier I I spoke with a different person when I called Loader Parts Source so I took a chance and called Pete. This guy provided unreal customer service. I emailed him the pictures that I posted in this thread. Pete went to the service area and verified the splined shaft was supposed to go all the way through the vane pump rotor and was supported by the bronze bushing. Comparing what he found to my pictures, my pump shaft was broken and I needed a new one. They had the shaft in stock and could ship it out today. Unreal huh? The guy I talked to before said they didn't have the shaft and only had the complete pump. I bought the shaft for $150 and Loader Parts Source will be the first place I go for parts.
 

antfarmer2

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Got a voice mail from Loader Parts Source. Pete was responding to my email. A couple of days earlier I I spoke with a different person when I called Loader Parts Source so I took a chance and called Pete. This guy provided unreal customer service. I emailed him the pictures that I posted in this thread. Pete went to the service area and verified the splined shaft was supposed to go all the way through the vane pump rotor and was supported by the bronze bushing. Comparing what he found to my pictures, my pump shaft was broken and I needed a new one. They had the shaft in stock and could ship it out today. Unreal huh? The guy I talked to before said they didn't have the shaft and only had the complete pump. I bought the shaft for $150 and Loader Parts Source will be the first place I go for parts.
Good to hear they have allways been good to me you just got the lazy one the first time
 

Tazza

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Good to hear they have allways been good to me you just got the lazy one the first time
Now that's the service i have come to know and rely on that they provide.
It is a shame that you spoke to the wrong person, i used to always talk to the owner, but he doesn't spend much time in the shop.
 
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ChandlerW

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Now that's the service i have come to know and rely on that they provide.
It is a shame that you spoke to the wrong person, i used to always talk to the owner, but he doesn't spend much time in the shop.
Update to the no charge problem. It turns out the rotating groups were put together wrong. Yeah. I did it. I should have went by the diagrams but missed it. I put them back together the way I found the right drive motor, which probably explains why the right motor never worked, and then broke into several pieces. I assembled the rotating groups correctly and noticed that I could not longer push the bobcat by hand. The wheels were locked up like they were supposed to be. The rotating groups have a preload on them pushing against the swash plates and the rear drive housing inside the drive motors. I have a gauge right above the filter and when I fired up the engine it took a minute but the charge pressure went up. I operated the foot pedals and the lift and tilt worked right. Then the big test. Would it move on its own? It did. You can't imagine how much I appreciated that. Then the right pedal stuck and the vane pump started growling. Apparently the valve is stuck and not letting the fluid circulate. At least the hard part is over.
 
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