65 Melroe M500 questions from new member

I've had my machine for around 3 yrs and have just replaced the tired old Kohler with an Onan 20 hp. I was able to use the original sheave drive by using a sleeve on the shaft only now it will only be manually adjustable. I have a new pump on the way which I'll drive with a pulley. After the first yr of use the hydraulics began to jerk bad and I'm not sure of the cause. I'm using hydraulic fluid from tractor supply and the filter that bobcat recommended. One of my manuals said use Hydro fluid and the other said ATF. While I have it apart I've prettied it up a bit and will replace some hoses, I'm wondering if I should clean out all the fluid and use the ATF which will be pricy unless I can find it in bulk. Also the tires are two different sizes, 1 1/2 difference in height being that the machine skids by design I'm guessing that no harm is being done?? The gear case is in good shape and I replaced the clutch discs when I got it. Thanks for any help.

Mike…..on the fluids….pick one and stick with it, personally I use the Hydro and have never had a problem. The tire issue can be controversial……older 600 series and M-500 machines have the same internals….I keep all my tires exactly the same. You are adding additional stress on the clutch linings and/or chains by having different sizes. Worse on solid surfaces…….. Just my .02

6brnorma said:

Mike…..on the fluids….pick one and stick with it, personally I use the Hydro and have never had a problem. The tire issue can be controversial……older 600 series and M-500 machines have the same internals….I keep all my tires exactly the same. You are adding additional stress on the clutch linings and/or chains by having different sizes. Worse on solid surfaces…….. Just my .02

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Thanks, I guess I'll stick with the hydro fluid. I'm going to build a small enclosure for the machine in the winter so I can warm up the fluid before I plow. I'll be looking for some used tires too.

Mike Woodman said:

Thanks, I guess I'll stick with the hydro fluid. I'm going to build a small enclosure for the machine in the winter so I can warm up the fluid before I plow. I'll be looking for some used tires too.

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If your plowing snow start looking now fo a set of lite tire chaines they ride a little rough but work great Gearbox

gearbox said:

If your plowing snow start looking now fo a set of lite tire chaines they ride a little rough but work great Gearbox

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I do have chains that I used one on the skid steer for the winter that I did plow with it and the local Bobcat place said to only use them on back or front not both. I'm wondering if that's why the PO had different size tires. I think I may use the chains on all four because I can plow right over the ice which I get a lot of.

I've been running ATF in my 444 for about a year and no issues. My manual calls for it and ours are pretty much the same machines. Sometimes you can find it on Craigslist for cheap in bulk. As for the tires, I agree with the previous post, keeping everything uniform will decrease the tension in the chainbox and save you heartache down the road. I have 15 inch pick up truck tires on my skid. Pop a tire? Go to the junkyard and get another for 20 bucks. Its a no brainer. On these very old belt driven skids I personally don't think it makes a difference what tires you've got on there unless you're running a 600 or newer with a Wisconsin engine (in which case you've actually got the power to dig into something other than gravel.)

GlennsM444 said:

I've been running ATF in my 444 for about a year and no issues. My manual calls for it and ours are pretty much the same machines. Sometimes you can find it on Craigslist for cheap in bulk. As for the tires, I agree with the previous post, keeping everything uniform will decrease the tension in the chainbox and save you heartache down the road. I have 15 inch pick up truck tires on my skid. Pop a tire? Go to the junkyard and get another for 20 bucks. Its a no brainer. On these very old belt driven skids I personally don't think it makes a difference what tires you've got on there unless you're running a 600 or newer with a Wisconsin engine (in which case you've actually got the power to dig into something other than gravel.)

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I'm wondering if Glenn or any others have trouble with starter motors not being able to start the Melroe 5 and 600s. I've got everything done on my 500, new pump, 20 hp Onan correct tires etc. I ran it out back to re attatch the bucket and the starter motor dragged bad. Advance auto checked the truck size 1000 cca batt and said it was fine. I put the batt back in and it cranked real slow and the starter motor crapped the bed with a nice little plume of smoke. I have a new one on order but I'm wondering if the starter is too small to crank the motor, pullies and the chain drive all at once. I could if I had to, rig up a pulley tensioner of sorts. BTW how tight is your drive belt. I did check and I can turn the jack shaft easily with a pipe wrench. Regards

Mike Woodman said:

I'm wondering if Glenn or any others have trouble with starter motors not being able to start the Melroe 5 and 600s. I've got everything done on my 500, new pump, 20 hp Onan correct tires etc. I ran it out back to re attatch the bucket and the starter motor dragged bad. Advance auto checked the truck size 1000 cca batt and said it was fine. I put the batt back in and it cranked real slow and the starter motor crapped the bed with a nice little plume of smoke. I have a new one on order but I'm wondering if the starter is too small to crank the motor, pullies and the chain drive all at once. I could if I had to, rig up a pulley tensioner of sorts. BTW how tight is your drive belt. I did check and I can turn the jack shaft easily with a pipe wrench. Regards

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>>I'm wondering if the starter is too small to crank the motor, pullies and the chain drive all at once. When you say Motor, pulleys and chain drive, where on your set up is there a chain drive? Old Melroes (pre-Wisconsin) are set up with the belt drive on the crankshaft side of the engine (with the variable speed drive sheave system) and the hydraulic pump on the flywheel side (with a Moreflex coupler.) Where do you have a chain? As for whether the starter is strong enough to turn the engine over, it should be okay. If you still have the old variable speed drive, just widen the sheeves before you start it so there is less drag on the engine. If your drive sheaves are fixed like mine (custom setup) make sure you choose a slow speed do that it is easy for everything to turn over. You've got a lot of engine in that old Onan but it should turn over fine. The jackshaft alone just turns with ease (not connected to anything) assuming your steering levers are in neutral position. I'm running a Briggs Vanguard 18HP with a riding lawn mower battery (so, basically, my skid is powered by a riding lawnmower engine with a horizontal shaft) and my machine turns over like a champ. I've got my custom drive sheeve set at a slow speed (wide) for creeping around the yard and powerful turning. >>I could if I had to, rig up a pulley tensioner of sorts. BTW how tight is your drive belt. I did check and I can turn the jack shaft easily with a pipe wrench. Regards My belt is tight enough that it is just grabbing and a little more. I adjust speed by taking the drive sheeve apart and adding or removing discs from the center of my custom drive sheeve system. If the machine drives, you're tight enough. If she's struggling to turn over and she goes frikkin 45mph from the get go, you have to widen the drive sheeves and slow her down some. Its trial and error. And again, at a nice slow speed, she should turn over fine. See my video on my drive sheeve system and you'll know what I'm talking about. If you need telephone support gimmie your number and I'll help you work it out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02sOlYG4_oM

Mike Woodman said:

I'm wondering if Glenn or any others have trouble with starter motors not being able to start the Melroe 5 and 600s. I've got everything done on my 500, new pump, 20 hp Onan correct tires etc. I ran it out back to re attatch the bucket and the starter motor dragged bad. Advance auto checked the truck size 1000 cca batt and said it was fine. I put the batt back in and it cranked real slow and the starter motor crapped the bed with a nice little plume of smoke. I have a new one on order but I'm wondering if the starter is too small to crank the motor, pullies and the chain drive all at once. I could if I had to, rig up a pulley tensioner of sorts. BTW how tight is your drive belt. I did check and I can turn the jack shaft easily with a pipe wrench. Regards

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Also just a thought, if your belt is so loose that you're thinking about adding a tensioner, I'll bet it is pretty stretched. Bobcat has that belt for about 100 bucks. If the mounting and orientation of your engine are correct I can't see you would ever need a tensioner on that belt system. Again, if you telephone support just email your number and I'll be glad to help. [email protected]

GlennsM444 said:

Also just a thought, if your belt is so loose that you're thinking about adding a tensioner, I'll bet it is pretty stretched. Bobcat has that belt for about 100 bucks. If the mounting and orientation of your engine are correct I can't see you would ever need a tensioner on that belt system. Again, if you telephone support just email your number and I'll be glad to help. [email protected]

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The wheels are driven by a chain/ sprocket setup. They are behind the chaincase cover. The jack shaft drives the sprockets and can't be disengaged. When you push your go levers you're engaging the clutch.and drive wheels. I replaced the clutch discs when I got the rig, they're pricy and getting scarce or so Bobcat said. I mounted the original hub to the motor but it's no longer adjustable via the hydraulics, I drilled and tapped for three allen screws. My thought was to loosen the belt so it'd slip with the motor running and I could tension it to run the jack shaft. Thanks for the help.

Mike Woodman said:

The wheels are driven by a chain/ sprocket setup. They are behind the chaincase cover. The jack shaft drives the sprockets and can't be disengaged. When you push your go levers you're engaging the clutch.and drive wheels. I replaced the clutch discs when I got the rig, they're pricy and getting scarce or so Bobcat said. I mounted the original hub to the motor but it's no longer adjustable via the hydraulics, I drilled and tapped for three allen screws. My thought was to loosen the belt so it'd slip with the motor running and I could tension it to run the jack shaft. Thanks for the help.

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The system is not designed to 'slip' at the drive belt. Free play is in clutch adjustment only. When starting the motor……variable speed sheave should be in lowest gear possible, there will be no 'slippage' of the belt at either the variable speed sheave or the jackshaft sheave. When the starter motor engages, it (should) turn the variable speed sheave, the belt, the jackshaft sheave and the main drive chain with free play at the clutches. Clutches are not scarce…..bobcat sells thousands of them each year…..many dealers do not carry them in inventory. I would not have a 500 or 600 series machine that did not have a functioning variable speed sheave so I'm not sure where to tell you to start unless you are going to make the investment to make it stock. The 'allen screw' idea may or may not work……the problems I see with it are the belt was not designed to slip under any circumstances and any misalignment by the screws will cause premature wear on your drive belt.

6brnorma said:

The system is not designed to 'slip' at the drive belt. Free play is in clutch adjustment only. When starting the motor……variable speed sheave should be in lowest gear possible, there will be no 'slippage' of the belt at either the variable speed sheave or the jackshaft sheave. When the starter motor engages, it (should) turn the variable speed sheave, the belt, the jackshaft sheave and the main drive chain with free play at the clutches. Clutches are not scarce…..bobcat sells thousands of them each year…..many dealers do not carry them in inventory. I would not have a 500 or 600 series machine that did not have a functioning variable speed sheave so I'm not sure where to tell you to start unless you are going to make the investment to make it stock. The 'allen screw' idea may or may not work……the problems I see with it are the belt was not designed to slip under any circumstances and any misalignment by the screws will cause premature wear on your drive belt.

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U sure am glad to hear those clutches shouldn't be scarce. I can't see that they would as there are so many 444 thru 610 machines out there in some sort of service. I agree that the belt should have no slippage. Spinning of the jackshaft is pretty easy by hand. I know this because I did it at the time I did my repower. If that jackshaft is hard to turn then sumptin stickin. Variable speed drive seems to me a luxury that enthusiast or someone with machine shop capability enjoy. Or someone with an original unmolested machine. Good running Onans are getting harder to find, though, and to rig it to a modern engine with a standard shaft seems a lot of work. My drive sheave system cost me the snowmobile secondary sheave with 1'' bore (30 bucks from an internet snowmobile junkyard) and the day of Bobcat I gave my buddy for fabricating the discs to go in between the sheave halves. I'm stuck in one slow speed but I don't care. I ain't drivin' her to San Diego anytime soon. And again, she turns over like a champ with that little riding mower battery.

GlennsM444 said:

U sure am glad to hear those clutches shouldn't be scarce. I can't see that they would as there are so many 444 thru 610 machines out there in some sort of service. I agree that the belt should have no slippage. Spinning of the jackshaft is pretty easy by hand. I know this because I did it at the time I did my repower. If that jackshaft is hard to turn then sumptin stickin. Variable speed drive seems to me a luxury that enthusiast or someone with machine shop capability enjoy. Or someone with an original unmolested machine. Good running Onans are getting harder to find, though, and to rig it to a modern engine with a standard shaft seems a lot of work. My drive sheave system cost me the snowmobile secondary sheave with 1'' bore (30 bucks from an internet snowmobile junkyard) and the day of Bobcat I gave my buddy for fabricating the discs to go in between the sheave halves. I'm stuck in one slow speed but I don't care. I ain't drivin' her to San Diego anytime soon. And again, she turns over like a champ with that little riding mower battery.

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I'm assuming that my clutch adjustment was at fault. I loosened everything up and started from scratch and all is well now. I have it operational and ready for winter. The new pump works excellent with ample power and no more jitters. I will have to adjust my drive belt as the machine is a little fast and no good for dozer type work. I might try to power my power angle plow off the Melroes hydraulic depending on if I have free time. My honey do list has grown while I've been working on this and I have to get a better transfer case in my IH pickup. I painted the Melroe with some old left over OEM Case garden tractor paint. Flambeau Red and the pale yellow. Thanks all for the help.

Mike Woodman said:

I'm assuming that my clutch adjustment was at fault. I loosened everything up and started from scratch and all is well now. I have it operational and ready for winter. The new pump works excellent with ample power and no more jitters. I will have to adjust my drive belt as the machine is a little fast and no good for dozer type work. I might try to power my power angle plow off the Melroes hydraulic depending on if I have free time. My honey do list has grown while I've been working on this and I have to get a better transfer case in my IH pickup. I painted the Melroe with some old left over OEM Case garden tractor paint. Flambeau Red and the pale yellow. Thanks all for the help.

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It sounds like you are experiencing some of the same trial and error I did with the drive sheave adjustment. A few good reasons to choose a slow speed, as I'm sure you know, are greater power for pushing and digging, easy turning, and less tension on the crank. The red/yellow scheme sounds similar to the original M400! I hear you on time constraints. I need axel seals, pins and a new paint job on mine, but if I spend any more time in the garage my wife will leave me for good. These old machines are a labor of love but worth every minute. The utility of a 1000lb lift capacity on an antique piece is outstanding. I'm sure we will see old Melroes pushing materials for decades to come. Lets keep them alive, and prevent them from getting crushed up into cheap Chinese crap!