New Holland L190 hard to start cold

2008 New Holland L190 with 1400 hours I bought this skidsteer a few months ago and it seems to have trouble starting cold. Once warm it runs great. During the summer it would always start but for about minute it would smoke and shake a bit. Yesterday at about 30 degrees it wouldn't start at all. After plugging in the block heater and charger it reluctantly started. The battery checked out but I replaced it anyway. This morning at 19 degrees it started but I had to hold the key for a good 10 seconds or it would just stall. Same smoke and slight shaking. When I turn on the ignition I can hear a relay click and again when the glow plug light turns off after about 20 seconds. My old LX665 would fire without issue no matter how cold without block heat. One thing I thought was odd is the glow plug light stays on for the full length of time no matter how warm or how many times I cycle the key. My LX665 had a glow plug countdown display and when started cold it would start at 10 seconds. Depending how warm the engine was during a re-start the plugs would run between 0 and 5 seconds. I'm mechanically inclined but don't have much experience with diesels. Any help is greatly appreciated.

What sort of cold starting aids does this thing have? Glow plugs? Intake manifold heater? Are they working?
Try posting this in the New Holland section. There is a guy over there, Mike10, who is the resident NH guru.

SkidRoe said:

What sort of cold starting aids does this thing have? Glow plugs? Intake manifold heater? Are they working?
Try posting this in the New Holland section. There is a guy over there, Mike10, who is the resident NH guru.

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After poking around I think it has an intake grid heater. No glow plugs. I do not know if it working. I can hear a relay click but have no idea if it's getting warm. *If a moderator reads this please move tread to the new holland section. I'm new and didn't know there was one. Thanks

speed_demon said:

After poking around I think it has an intake grid heater. No glow plugs. I do not know if it working. I can hear a relay click but have no idea if it's getting warm. *If a moderator reads this please move tread to the new holland section. I'm new and didn't know there was one. Thanks

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When I cycle the key I'm getting good heat to the manifold.

speed_demon said:

When I cycle the key I'm getting good heat to the manifold.

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If the manifold gets warm it sounds like the grid heater is working. It could be that the compression is a little lower than it should be or your injectors may need attention.
If compression is down, it will be harder to start, but when warm it may start and run great.
The rough running for a little while after startup makes me think it could be an injector, one cylinder is not firing straight away.

Tazza said:

If the manifold gets warm it sounds like the grid heater is working. It could be that the compression is a little lower than it should be or your injectors may need attention.
If compression is down, it will be harder to start, but when warm it may start and run great.
The rough running for a little while after startup makes me think it could be an injector, one cylinder is not firing straight away.

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Injectors would be the logical next step. You would think that the compression wouldn't be low after 1400 hrs, but I you are pulling the injectors, that would be the time to check it. Our neighbour has an L190, I don't ever recall it being a hard starter, but I have only driven it a couple of times.

SkidRoe said:

Injectors would be the logical next step. You would think that the compression wouldn't be low after 1400 hrs, but I you are pulling the injectors, that would be the time to check it. Our neighbour has an L190, I don't ever recall it being a hard starter, but I have only driven it a couple of times.

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I hope it's not low compression. Right now it's 33 degrees and I let it sit for about 3 hours. It fired up quickly and ran smooth. I think it may have had a bad connection because if I remember correctly my first reading at the heater was 0v but the heater could have timed out on me and I didn't really know what I was doing. After messing around and manipulating solenoid wires I was getting 12v and the manifold was hot. I guess I'll let it sit overnight and see how well it starts when it's ice cold. Thank you for all the advice. I'll post up after cranking it in the morning.

speed_demon said:

I hope it's not low compression. Right now it's 33 degrees and I let it sit for about 3 hours. It fired up quickly and ran smooth. I think it may have had a bad connection because if I remember correctly my first reading at the heater was 0v but the heater could have timed out on me and I didn't really know what I was doing. After messing around and manipulating solenoid wires I was getting 12v and the manifold was hot. I guess I'll let it sit overnight and see how well it starts when it's ice cold. Thank you for all the advice. I'll post up after cranking it in the morning.

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That makes more sense to me. Let's hope for the best!!

There is a cold start advance termperature sender screwed in the water jacket of the block. It sounds like this is not working. I am thinking is should power up the advance on the injection pump when cold. You have two wires attached to the injection pump, one is for the shut off and the other is for the cold start advance. Check if you have power there when cold. If not, warm the engine and see if you have power at the advance then.

Mike10 said:

There is a cold start advance termperature sender screwed in the water jacket of the block. It sounds like this is not working. I am thinking is should power up the advance on the injection pump when cold. You have two wires attached to the injection pump, one is for the shut off and the other is for the cold start advance. Check if you have power there when cold. If not, warm the engine and see if you have power at the advance then.

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Hey Mike,
Who's engine did NH use in this machine? Anything I have read says that it is an NH engine, but NH never designed any of their own engines that I am aware of. I would have expected a legacy Ford design, or maybe a Fiat, but at 275 CID, it sounds like a Perkins.
Just curious.

SkidRoe said:

Hey Mike,
Who's engine did NH use in this machine? Anything I have read says that it is an NH engine, but NH never designed any of their own engines that I am aware of. I would have expected a legacy Ford design, or maybe a Fiat, but at 275 CID, it sounds like a Perkins.
Just curious.

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I'm not really sure who make the engine. When looking for parts for my LX665 I seem to remember ford coming up a lot but that was a 50hp 2.0L and this one is a 90hp 4.5L. I just started the machine for the first time at around 25 degrees and it started fairly quickly but it still has a slight vibration until warm. Honestly I'm not really worried about 25 degrees, I'm worried about -20. My old machine popped right off no matter how cold.

speed_demon said:

I'm not really sure who make the engine. When looking for parts for my LX665 I seem to remember ford coming up a lot but that was a 50hp 2.0L and this one is a 90hp 4.5L. I just started the machine for the first time at around 25 degrees and it started fairly quickly but it still has a slight vibration until warm. Honestly I'm not really worried about 25 degrees, I'm worried about -20. My old machine popped right off no matter how cold.

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The engine in your LX665 was made by Shibaura, even though NH claims it as their own. Shibaura also made the engines for Ford's compact tractors (actually I think they made the whole tractor).

SkidRoe said:

Hey Mike,
Who's engine did NH use in this machine? Anything I have read says that it is an NH engine, but NH never designed any of their own engines that I am aware of. I would have expected a legacy Ford design, or maybe a Fiat, but at 275 CID, it sounds like a Perkins.
Just curious.

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It is a Fiat-CNH engine. They call their engines by different names FPT for Fiat Power Train or NEF New Engine Family. Some of these engines, I believe, were a collaboration between CNH and Cummins. I never found the need to delve to deeply in who actually designed the engines but they are a part of CNH and Fiat.

Mike10 said:

It is a Fiat-CNH engine. They call their engines by different names FPT for Fiat Power Train or NEF New Engine Family. Some of these engines, I believe, were a collaboration between CNH and Cummins. I never found the need to delve to deeply in who actually designed the engines but they are a part of CNH and Fiat.

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Ah, that makes sense. It could actually be a Cummins QSB4.5. They are a great little motor.

SkidRoe said:

Ah, that makes sense. It could actually be a Cummins QSB4.5. They are a great little motor.

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the engine in my 665 is not marked Shibauru but Isikawajima or something close to that, which is the parent company of Shibauru. So far it has been trouble free and really starts quick in cold weather.

jerry said:

the engine in my 665 is not marked Shibauru but Isikawajima or something close to that, which is the parent company of Shibauru. So far it has been trouble free and really starts quick in cold weather.

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Welp, it's having problems again. It started for me this morning but a few hours later no luck. It's about 27 degrees right now and it will get down to -20 this winter. I really need to get this thing sorted out. So what next? Compression test? I miss my old LX665!

speed_demon said:

Welp, it's having problems again. It started for me this morning but a few hours later no luck. It's about 27 degrees right now and it will get down to -20 this winter. I really need to get this thing sorted out. So what next? Compression test? I miss my old LX665!

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It sounds like the cold start grid heater is not working. I do not think the heater is engaged until the temp is about 32 degrees. Even though it may count down on the instrument panel does not mean it is actually heating. Also I have found the heater will not heat if the seat belt is not fastened at least on the smaller loaders. They do use the same electrical system though.
Have you checked to see if you have power to the grid heater and that it actually gets warm? Hearing the solenoid is no guarentee it is heating.
On some of the engines NH recommended 0w40 synthetic oil for improved cold weather starting.
You also need to check if you are getting power to the cold start advance on the injection pump. If the pump timing does not advance it will be hard to start. The cold start advance lays horizontal on the pump. I am not completely familiar with the 190 and most of my suggestions pertain to the 185 and I think they will carry over to the 190.

Mike10 said:

It sounds like the cold start grid heater is not working. I do not think the heater is engaged until the temp is about 32 degrees. Even though it may count down on the instrument panel does not mean it is actually heating. Also I have found the heater will not heat if the seat belt is not fastened at least on the smaller loaders. They do use the same electrical system though.
Have you checked to see if you have power to the grid heater and that it actually gets warm? Hearing the solenoid is no guarentee it is heating.
On some of the engines NH recommended 0w40 synthetic oil for improved cold weather starting.
You also need to check if you are getting power to the cold start advance on the injection pump. If the pump timing does not advance it will be hard to start. The cold start advance lays horizontal on the pump. I am not completely familiar with the 190 and most of my suggestions pertain to the 185 and I think they will carry over to the 190.

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The grid heater gets nice and hot. I'm not sure what type of oil it has but it turns over nice and quick. I'll have to manually lift the boom before I can check the cold start advance.

speed_demon said:

The grid heater gets nice and hot. I'm not sure what type of oil it has but it turns over nice and quick. I'll have to manually lift the boom before I can check the cold start advance.

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I pulled the pins on the boom cylinders and tried to lift from the front but it didn't work because of how the boom works. I tried from the back but it only went up 1/2 way before lifting the back of the machine. Any ideas on how to get the boom up so I can access the engine?