Bobcat Owners Beware!

Bobcat S185 lost oil pressure and shut down Replaced oil pressure sensor and it never showed another code or shut down again. Rod and main bearings are cooked. Machine has 289 hours. Warranty rep from Bobcat is Eric. He first said I must have tipped it over - never happened! Then claimed I must have got water in it - never happened! Now claims I was on too steep of a grade and allowed oil pump to suck up air - never happened! When the low oil pressure code came up and went through shutdown - the machine was on level ground after unloading 5 pallets from a delivery. Bobcat refuses to warranty the repair! It will now cost me $8,000.00 for the new engine and labor!!! Bobcat rep Eric continues to blame me - just not sure what for!? The new engine comes with a warranty I was told - the warranty did nothing for me the first time. Bobcats are reliable machines - but if you have a problem under warranty - Be prepared to be blamed for it!!! Keep in mind - Bobcat is now owned by a Korean Corp!!!!! Anyone interested in trading a Case or J.D. for a S185 with 289 hours and a brand new engine?

Tell the head office (wherever that is now) your story. They should straighten out the dealer. There are slightly less than proper people out there & some are dealers.
After seeing the stunt skid steer riders on a couple wheels for a loooong time one would think skidsteers would have a good oil sump system. Bobcats only had.... 50 some years to perfect it? Good luck -Scott

sledesigns said:

Tell the head office (wherever that is now) your story. They should straighten out the dealer. There are slightly less than proper people out there & some are dealers.
After seeing the stunt skid steer riders on a couple wheels for a loooong time one would think skidsteers would have a good oil sump system. Bobcats only had.... 50 some years to perfect it? Good luck -Scott

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I would inform Bobcat's head office about this , there's nothing worse than being stung by a tight ass dealer who wont do the right thing ! Its Bobcat's reputation on the line here, "you never get a second chance to make a good first impression" . Maybe Doosan are a bunch of "arseholes that dont care about standing behind their product ? Bobcat have been a "Fortune " company , making "America's best . Has this been forgotten?

I have already come to the conclusion that the new Kubota engines are not as dependable as the old ones were ,seems to me they are weak in the crank and rod bearings as your failure is not uncommon , I think 250 hours between oil changes is too much ---------289 hours is right at an engine oil change interval , when did you do your first oil change and do you have any receipts from doing it ? ---------$8,000 is too much for the engine job , you can get a complete reamaned engine for right at $4,000 and say $5,000 installed -----------

Fishfiles said:

I have already come to the conclusion that the new Kubota engines are not as dependable as the old ones were ,seems to me they are weak in the crank and rod bearings as your failure is not uncommon , I think 250 hours between oil changes is too much ---------289 hours is right at an engine oil change interval , when did you do your first oil change and do you have any receipts from doing it ? ---------$8,000 is too much for the engine job , you can get a complete reamaned engine for right at $4,000 and say $5,000 installed -----------

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Unfortunately - that is the decision from Bobcat! Eric(not sure of his last name) is the warranty rep from Bobcat corporate in Fargo N.D. I talked to the Bobcat Corporate office and requested to talk to Eric's boss - my call was returned by Eric! Servicing dealer is Thermo King. First oil change was done at 50 hours and the next oil change was done at 250 hours - oil and filters were purchased from Bobcat. Re manufactured engine is $4,300.00. They are charging me $1280.00 to tear the engine down to see if the oil pressure regulator spring was broke - it wasn't broke so they blame me for the damage. Now I have to pay to have the engine put back together so they can send it back for the core credit. They also removed the fuel tank to check for water - no water, so they couldn't blame it on that. Labor does seem high!! They were trying everything to blame me - and in the end just blamed me because they had no other excuses to use. I filed a complaint with the BBB - but Bobcat isn't a member - but they will still send a report to them to see if they respond. Also filed a complaint with the State Attorney Generals Office - we will see. To me it shows they just don't care and already made their profits from me!!!

I would go back in take a look at the failed componats again to try and reach a logical reason as to what happened The rods are lubed off crossdrillings from a main bearing. How does the coresponding main look, damaged from lack of oil or ok. How do the remaining rod bearings look damaged from the failure or ok.When the light came on the failure was the already occuring? Was the oil pump full of metal or clean. If the failure is all bearings than that would indicate that the operator possibly continuied to run the machine with low oil pressure as not all the bearings are going to fail at once. If it is only 1 or 2 that would indiacate possibly a failed bearing. Did they pull a oil sample to check for trace amounts of cooalnt or sodium as there could have been a componant putting small amounts of coolant in the oil but all the bearings should show signs. Excessive dirt or silicone, breakdown of viscosity an oil sample can be very useful and they should have pulled one. I would ask to have the bobcat or outside co Failure anyalisis performed. You are entitled to a reasonable explanation of what happaned and why if they cannot provide this I would be looking for outside help. almost always when provided the right info these people can determine the root cause of failure and the order in which things failed.

td63 said:

I would go back in take a look at the failed componats again to try and reach a logical reason as to what happened The rods are lubed off crossdrillings from a main bearing. How does the coresponding main look, damaged from lack of oil or ok. How do the remaining rod bearings look damaged from the failure or ok.When the light came on the failure was the already occuring? Was the oil pump full of metal or clean. If the failure is all bearings than that would indicate that the operator possibly continuied to run the machine with low oil pressure as not all the bearings are going to fail at once. If it is only 1 or 2 that would indiacate possibly a failed bearing. Did they pull a oil sample to check for trace amounts of cooalnt or sodium as there could have been a componant putting small amounts of coolant in the oil but all the bearings should show signs. Excessive dirt or silicone, breakdown of viscosity an oil sample can be very useful and they should have pulled one. I would ask to have the bobcat or outside co Failure anyalisis performed. You are entitled to a reasonable explanation of what happaned and why if they cannot provide this I would be looking for outside help. almost always when provided the right info these people can determine the root cause of failure and the order in which things failed.

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Is the machine insured ,go by a lighter

wright const said:

Is the machine insured ,go by a lighter

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Id make sure the machine was at Eric's office doorstep before the lighter was used. Aside from that maybe we should have a bit of a union of owner operators similar to others. In the camping world there is a group called Good Sams Club or similar. One of the perks is if you are getting shook down like this situation, the Club writes the place, dealer, etc & asks in writing on your behalf for a resolution. More often than not, the place doing the frisking appologizes, says it was some error, new guy BS, but makes it right with the club member. (you take the easy going, genereally older RVer's and lesser people like to bend em over) So if the company or such makes it right, cool. If not, they go on the clubs naughty list. Anyone can look em up, see they've screwed people over and lose their business. Even down to what camp sites are friendly, or that the owners cussed out an ol guy having a hard time parking.
I know I'd have reservations about buying a new Bobcat now.

I was contemplating upgrading my 763 to a newer model, but after reading this post, I have decided that if that is they way they treat people with newer machines, I will change brands. I guess that is what happens when a company gets bought out, they tend to forget what made them the largest skid steer manufacturer. Jim

JimC said:

I was contemplating upgrading my 763 to a newer model, but after reading this post, I have decided that if that is they way they treat people with newer machines, I will change brands. I guess that is what happens when a company gets bought out, they tend to forget what made them the largest skid steer manufacturer. Jim

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i fail to see how bobcat can walk away from this problem..unless they pulled an oil sample and found some sort of contaminant ..ie service problem they are on the hook for the engine ..even if you laid the machine on its side or worked on too steep of a slope.( i don't think a bobcat can work on a slope that uncovers the oil pickup) the low oil pressure sensor should have turned off the machine before it destroyed the engine. i have turned more than one bobcat on its side ..flip it upright start it up and go back to work .i have graded slopes that could only be graded down hill ,and then go around and take another pass down the hill . never had an engine fail ..never had an low oil pressure light come on up hill or down hill..either your engine had something wrong with it from the get-go or the low oil pressure shut down didn't work right ( no point in it if it doesn't shut the engine down before it is destroyed!! ) either of these problems go right back to bobcat . did you ask the dealer how you could have run it with low oil pressure if it has an automatic low oil shut down ...

jmatt20 said:

i fail to see how bobcat can walk away from this problem..unless they pulled an oil sample and found some sort of contaminant ..ie service problem they are on the hook for the engine ..even if you laid the machine on its side or worked on too steep of a slope.( i don't think a bobcat can work on a slope that uncovers the oil pickup) the low oil pressure sensor should have turned off the machine before it destroyed the engine. i have turned more than one bobcat on its side ..flip it upright start it up and go back to work .i have graded slopes that could only be graded down hill ,and then go around and take another pass down the hill . never had an engine fail ..never had an low oil pressure light come on up hill or down hill..either your engine had something wrong with it from the get-go or the low oil pressure shut down didn't work right ( no point in it if it doesn't shut the engine down before it is destroyed!! ) either of these problems go right back to bobcat . did you ask the dealer how you could have run it with low oil pressure if it has an automatic low oil shut down ...

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Thats horrible, if the sensor was changed and the error wenrt away and you installed a genuine sender its not your fault from lack of lubrication as it seems that it may have been a bad unit. Thats what the fail safes are there for in the first place. I honestly would keep fighting this.
If they can't give you a report saying WHY it died with proof, they can't get out of the claim for warranty. They need proof that you were at fault, not just a randon piece of trash that may have pluged a oil gallery.

Tazza said:

Thats horrible, if the sensor was changed and the error wenrt away and you installed a genuine sender its not your fault from lack of lubrication as it seems that it may have been a bad unit. Thats what the fail safes are there for in the first place. I honestly would keep fighting this.
If they can't give you a report saying WHY it died with proof, they can't get out of the claim for warranty. They need proof that you were at fault, not just a randon piece of trash that may have pluged a oil gallery.

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I know you said it only happen once and I believe you but if you kept on pushing it after it killed , they will know as the computer stores all the times it shut down or the code for low oil pressure came up --------------I don't think I would pay to put it back together as the core fee is like less than the 1,250 I think it was you said they charged you to take it apart , which is ridiculous , it should have been 1/2 of that to take the motor out and break it down far enough to see what happened -------------------did you see the bottom of the oil pan , I would guess it had a 1/2 inch of silver looking paste which is probally the bearings -----I don't follow them on checking the spring after disassembling , the spring and ball that I know of that gets trash in it and makes you lose oil pressure is behind the nipple that holds the filter to the block and the motor doesn't need to be disassemble to check that ------- I have never seen what happened to you before happen to anyone , if nothing else I seen where they would offer you a free motor but no labor from the factory or free labor from the dealer and you pay for the motor , it 's like nether one is standing up for you ------the sensor shuts it down at about psi of oil pressure , buy the time it gets to that the motor was shot , so if you never really watched your gauge you may have never noticed that oil pressure was declining ----no doubt that Bobcat has lost it's edge on a reliable , easy to maintain machine but now it seems the support is lost as well

Tazza said:

Thats horrible, if the sensor was changed and the error wenrt away and you installed a genuine sender its not your fault from lack of lubrication as it seems that it may have been a bad unit. Thats what the fail safes are there for in the first place. I honestly would keep fighting this.
If they can't give you a report saying WHY it died with proof, they can't get out of the claim for warranty. They need proof that you were at fault, not just a randon piece of trash that may have pluged a oil gallery.

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Just had a swash plate sensor replaced on my T180, not under warranty. Sad deal, details to come in a later post. To the point, the dealer pulled all the codes from the computer in the T180 and gave me a printout. Showed at least the past 25 or 30 error codes with the corresponding engine hours. So in your case, there should be an internal computer record that will indicate when the low oil pressure occurred. Helpful? I dunno, but in a case like this where you did nothing wrong, all data should be captured. Do you have a lawyer friend that can just make a call and request the data? No threats, just the request for data..... ---RC

bobbie-g said:

Just had a swash plate sensor replaced on my T180, not under warranty. Sad deal, details to come in a later post. To the point, the dealer pulled all the codes from the computer in the T180 and gave me a printout. Showed at least the past 25 or 30 error codes with the corresponding engine hours. So in your case, there should be an internal computer record that will indicate when the low oil pressure occurred. Helpful? I dunno, but in a case like this where you did nothing wrong, all data should be captured. Do you have a lawyer friend that can just make a call and request the data? No threats, just the request for data..... ---RC

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Sorry! - I'm in the fireworks display business and am too busy to reply to all. I do have the code sheets and the codes back up my exact history - but not the Bobcat reps story(or should I say excuse!) It shows all the codes from the 1st hour on. It all boils down to one big blame game - if I was responsible - I'm the type that would just suck it up! - I would not blame Bobcat for my mistake - BUT - there is nothing I have done to this machine to cause the low oil pressure issue or create a lack of oil to the lower end of the engine. It never showed any problems until the low oil pressure shutdown. I use this machine for personal use on my own property. 99% of the hours on this machine is used plowing snow, mowing, or using the pallet forks to load or unload trucks which is not working the machine very hard. One more note - I live in southern MN - it is so flat here - I can damn near see Montana!!

nightlighter said:

Sorry! - I'm in the fireworks display business and am too busy to reply to all. I do have the code sheets and the codes back up my exact history - but not the Bobcat reps story(or should I say excuse!) It shows all the codes from the 1st hour on. It all boils down to one big blame game - if I was responsible - I'm the type that would just suck it up! - I would not blame Bobcat for my mistake - BUT - there is nothing I have done to this machine to cause the low oil pressure issue or create a lack of oil to the lower end of the engine. It never showed any problems until the low oil pressure shutdown. I use this machine for personal use on my own property. 99% of the hours on this machine is used plowing snow, mowing, or using the pallet forks to load or unload trucks which is not working the machine very hard. One more note - I live in southern MN - it is so flat here - I can damn near see Montana!!

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You also mention that they thought you may have had water in your fuel, that wouldn't do a thing to the bearings, it is only for the fuel delivery side, nothing more. They are just making excuses.
Is there anyone you can contact for legal advise on this? as you do have the error code print out. Its a new machine, its been serviced, there is no reason for it to fail unless there was a flaw during assembly.

Nightlighter, How are you making out with the dealer? Any luck? Jim

JimC said:

Nightlighter, How are you making out with the dealer? Any luck? Jim

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It is a small world , I get up this morning , drinking coffee and reading this site , yesterday evening I picked up a friends T140 ( as all the big ones where out on rent ) to spread 36 yards of milled asphalt in my yard to extend my driveways , this T140 is one I put a new motor in 96 hours ago , the motor failed at 1460 hours ( as I wrote it on the back door ) from the exact same senerio as your , low oil pressure warning , yesterday it was running 71 psi reved up , it was down to 5 psi when I hooked a mechanical gague in it back when , this guy changes his oil religiously , and uses Rotella 15/40 and Bobcat brand filters in all his machines , so lack of service or inadequate oil or filters I would say was not the factor , when I took the oil pan off this 140's engine it had the silver paste on the bottom of the pan so thick you could scrape it up with a putty knife ---------------- I believe there is a problem with the new Kubota engines in the smaller machines like 140 , 180 and 190 as I have seen quite a few go down from lost engine oil pressure in the past couple of years , and all where right past the end of the warranty in the 1,500 hour range , I was a service manager for a large rental house here in the city and stay in touch with them and other rental house and they have all have had the same problem , it seems the crank grinds up the bearings which makes the oil pressure go down --------- when I was working at the rental house back in the 80's we were told we had the most Bobcats at one location , we had 53 Bobcats to rent with or without operators at one time , funny thing is in 12 years that Iworked there I never had not "ONE" motor go down , bare renting machines is very hard on the machinery as 90% of the people renting them down know and don't care and will push the machine to the limits , and being that it is cheaper to rent a smaller machine than a larger one they will do what the machine was not meant to do ------------ maybe it is inferior metals that are made from all the old Chevy's and washing machines we send over there to be smelted down into parts coming back to haunt us ---------going spread

Nightlighter, When did you buy your S185? I bought a S175 a little over a year ago and I have 175 hours on it. It was put together in Dec 2007. Supposedly I have a two year warranty on motor, power train etc. This scares me!!!! Don

My advice is to get a laywer, going to be cheaper than the 8 grand to replace the motor. If you have a printout of the trouble codes from hour 1 on this machine then it is up to Bobcat to prove that you somehow did something else to the machine to get out of warranty on the machine. If you have not done so already write down a quick summarry of all discussions with your dealer as well as keep copies of any and all corraspondence, if the dealer ever asks to see copies of anything make sure that you always have a copy kept to yourself before you hand anything over to them. Also if you have to sign any work orders add to it beside your signature that you are only signing to acknowledge receiving the machine or parts and not accepting responsibility for any damages. I learned this stuff the hard way, not with Bobcat but other vehicles. The local Bobcat dealer has pissed me off bad enough already that after only 1 year with my machine I already take it elsewhere. Good luck