Ok, in the next few weeks I am going to rent a trencher to go on the skidsteer. I need to run a few drainlines. Runs will only be between 40-60 feet. It is a 6" trencher and I will be putting 4" PVC in the trench. Anyone have any tips? How do the experts make sure they have the proper slope? Just gradually lift the trencher out of the ground as you go so you get some fall? I am new to the trenchers and pipe laying. Any tips will help.
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skidsteer.ca
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You may want to rent a transit too so you can check your slope. I have a simple water level made up that I use to check my slope for such situations. Cost me about $25
It is pretty hard to judge with the naked eye.
Ken
It is pretty hard to judge with the naked eye.
Ken
Can you explain what a water level is? Never heard of one. I have a transit available to me if need be. Just gotta find a helper...
skidsteer.ca
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Here is an example.
http://www.factsfacts.com/MyHomeRepair/WaterLevel.htm
I made mine from a plastic 5 gal oil pail, drilled a hole in the side at the bottom and pulled a rubber tire valve stem in it. Removed the core and attached 75' of clear tubing to the stem. Just follow the example above or search water level for more. Works great,cheap and easy.
Ken
Earthwerks Unlimited
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The easy way is set the trencher to the deepest point you need to go and make the entire trench that depth. Then backfill as needed to set the slope. Use water to compact the bottom of the trench, which will also confirm the slope---and you may get away without using a transit or level
(LOL... my pocket-size bubble level also has a cell phone--it's one of those new T-mobile cell phones).
You will have to backfill some more as it will settle some, which is desirable. Throw in the pipe, and backfill. Use more water on top to compact.
I wouldn't use a skid steer attachment though, unless you already have one. I would rent a walkbehind model or a compact skid steer equipped with one. You have more veratility, can see where you're going (or not going), and it will likely cost about the same to rent. And don't go 6" wide--just go 4"--the trench will be just a tad bigger than 4".
I used to own a Case DH-4 ride-on trencher with backhoe that could cut a 16" trench in one pass 5 ' deep--it barely fit on a 20' trailer. Bought it for a grand and sold it three years later for $4500.
Thanks for the tips. How do the walk behinds work on softer ground? I was leaning towards the skidloader one because my buddy just used a walk behind and he wasnt happy with it. Said he had to manhandle it all the time and it would lose traction a lot. I will be using it out in an open field to drain a spring out of the field and into the creek. The ground is a little on the soft side... Can you run a trench straight enought to drop hard pvc line in or would you go with the flexible black pipe?
Earthwerks Unlimited
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Sounds like you're gonna be up to your arse in mud if the spring is active. Forget the trencher and rent a mini excavator with the smallest bucket--likely an 8-9". I would NOT use the black corrugated pipe--it collapses eaisly and if there's ANY water in the trench it will float making it impossible to backfill without floating to the top or kinking. I would use PVC septic/sewer leach field pipe. It is white, relatively thin-walled, needs no fitting (has bell coupler on end, and half the cost of regular PVC. Place the holes in the pipe DOWNWARD. Before you put the pipe in the trench be sure to lay a few inches of straw in the trench to act as a filter to keep sediment out. When it comes time to backfill hold the pipe in the trench with a shovel or have someone stand on it just to be sure it doesn't work its way to the surface. Throw some backfill on the pipe about every 3-4 feet first then go back and finish backfilling. You may have to wait a week or so for the water to drain out enough to touch-up the backfill.
Earthwerks Unlimited
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The thing with trenchers is, while you are driving backward trying to get traction, the trencher is literally fighting you to cut the trench. The shallower the trench the worse the pulling action. If you have ever used a chainsaw and touched the wood and it grabbed right away without having a good grasp on the handle-- you know what I mean. With that big machine I had, I used that pulling action to my benefit--when crossing a deep ditch I could drop the trenching bar and literally pull/claw myself out using the trencher teeth and the driving wheels.
As for the slope, I purchased a pawn shop transit and use my tape measure. Takes two people.
Thanks for all the good tips! Reallly appreciate it. I was going to use the black stuff, but from what you have said I will go with the PVC. The PVC drain pipe we have around here has two rows of holes down the length. Holes are about 3/4" dia and the rows are at about 4 o'clock and 8 oclock when looking at the end. Does this sound like the right stuff? I found "filter socks" that go over the pipe and keep the sediment out,so I probably wont need the straw. I dug a test hole tonight, and hit water at 24", so I figure I can trench it, back fill to get proper slope, then lay the pipe in and see if water will flow out the end...good check to see if I have it layed right. I read 1/4" fall per foot run. What means on a 50 foot run I will have about 1 foot fall. Do I really need that much?
Earthwerks Unlimited
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Thanks for all the good tips! Reallly appreciate it.
>>>I prefer appreciation in denominations of 10's or 20's, but happily credit/debit cards are acceptable too! LOL
I was going to use the black stuff, but from what you have said I will go with the PVC. The PVC drain pipe we have around here has two rows of holes down the length. Holes are about 3/4" dia and the rows are at about 4 o'clock and 8 oclock when looking at the end. Does this sound like the right stuff?
>>>Yup.
I found "filter socks" that go over the pipe and keep the sediment out,so I probably wont need the straw.
>>>>Sock isn't cheap, or is it?
I dug a test hole tonight, and hit water at 24", so I figure I can trench it, back fill to get proper slope, then lay the pipe in and see if water will flow out the end...good check to see if I have it layed right.
>>>Yup, but what did you decide to use to do trenching?
I read 1/4" fall per foot run. What means on a 50 foot run I will have about 1 foot fall. Do I really need that much?
>>>Yup. Otherwise, it won't drain as quickly. I like to slope is steeply as possbile whenever I can--just 'cause.
>>>When you place backfill to hold the pipe in place and backfill in general don't let big clumps or rocks touch the pipe within 6 or so inches. Otherwise they will collapse the pipe when fully compacted.
A few years ago I trenched about 1500 feet for a local farmer about 4 feet deep. He laid his own pipe and backfilled. Me thinks he did a half assed job because the same area is flooded. He made the comment after I trenched that it doesn't matter about slope and fall so long as the end of it empties into the creek. Wrongo. I did the neighbor's land right next to the old farmer's too about 600 feet, which we did correctly and lasered it as we went. Perfect drainage. That was done with the black perforated pipe but the guy I did it for was meticulous about holding the pipe down while I backfilled every few feet. He was and is still very happy with it. While I trenching a nother neighbor came over for a oook-see and told us that when was a kid 40 years ago they hand dug all the clay tiles which were at the excat same level I was digging at. But that's the way they used to do it--all by hand. My back aches even writing that!
Filter sock wasnt cheap. Paid about $.25/foot in 100 foot rolls. I figured I might as well do it right....Didnt decide if I am going skidsteer or miniexcavator. We are low on rain here so the ground is getting dryer by the day. We will play it by ear... -When you say rocks shouldnt be next to the pipe you are talking big rocks right? Like fist size? I have a bunch of shale soil, so its all basically small rocks. -Do you check the trench with a transit for elevation, then drop the pipe in and recheck? Or how do you go about it? I have used a transit many times for shimming equipment on a large concrete pad, but I have never used it to do drainage work. How often in the trench do you check elevations? I suppose if you didnt check close enough you could have a bunch of highs and lows that wouldnt flow.
Earthwerks Unlimited
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Filter sock wasnt cheap. Paid about $.25/foot in 100 foot rolls. I figured I might as well do it right....
<<<We are required to use 6" of straw as a barrier between the backfill and the weep lines in septic leach beds. It takes many, many years--sometimes a life time to decompose. In fact parts of old New Orleans are built on straw bales thrown in the swamp which get puished down and later built upon. I have excavated yards that had buried straw that was ten eyars old and looked fresh. It just doesn't want to rot.
Didnt decide if I am going skidsteer or miniexcavator. We are low on rain here so the ground is getting dryer by the day. We will play it by ear...
>>>Won't that shale be hard to trench? We don't have shale here.
-When you say rocks shouldnt be next to the pipe you are talking big rocks right? Like fist size?
>>>>Think more like small egg size.
I have a bunch of shale soil, so its all basically small rocks.
-Do you check the trench with a transit for elevation, then drop the pipe in and recheck? Or how do you go about it?
>>>>If I tell ya any more, I'll have to charge ya for consulting--or come do the work myself! LOL
I have used a transit many times for shimming equipment on a large concrete pad, but I have never used it to do drainage work. How often in the trench do you check elevations? I suppose if you didnt check close enough you could have a bunch of highs and lows that wouldnt flow.
Thanks for the tip. I am going to rent a laser level, so I will have to see if it has that feature.If not I will just double check it manually as I go. You say a 1/2 percent grade. My math says thats about 5/8" per 10 foot run. That doesnt sound right to me. I was told about 1/4" fall per 1 foot run(about 2 % grade).
We have always laid drainage and sewer pipe at .5 percent. You want water run off to flow slowly. To much slope will cause a sink hole at the end of your pipe. Water should drain throughout the pipe. Also when you check on the laser check on a machine mounted reciever (example CR600 has magnet mount) makes life easier. Also most lasers you can put in manual and adjust a slope into it.
I got about 125 feet of pipe laid. Got a mini excavator in. The mini excavator floats well in the nasty mud. We dug with a 12" wide bucket and I checked it as we went with the laer level. It was thick wet clay, I dont think a skidsteer trencher would have even made it though it. We hit two veins of shale. When we did the trench instantly flooded. We laid cloth down,about 3" of stone, then the pipe, with stone around and on top of it. Cloth inclosed all the stone. Pipe was about 2 to 2 1/2 feet down. Tons of water flowing out of the pipe, and from around the pipe through the stone. Area around the pipe is draining well, but some of the other areas arent draining well due to the heavy clay. It just doesnt allow the water to move well.
