tracks or tires

[hunter]

looking at getting a large model skid steer, iron scraping work, clearing branches about everything.. if something happens to a track outfit price makes me nervous any comments..

 

[Treekiller66]

Id like to stick my nose in here a little. I do work for the railroads and work on hard ballast rock sometimes and then in swamps and ditches other times. Been using over the tire tracks when i need them but they are heavy to haul around and keeping them tight means adjusting them up every other day. Looking at a tracked machine but scared of the cost.But think the ride and traction would be great. Usually run 2,500 hours a year.what do ya think?

 

[hunter]

Id like to stick my nose in here a little. I do work for the railroads and work on hard ballast rock sometimes and then in swamps and ditches other times. Been using over the tire tracks when i need them but they are heavy to haul around and keeping them tight means adjusting them up every other day. Looking at a tracked machine but scared of the cost.But think the ride and traction would be great. Usually run 2,500 hours a year.what do ya think?

glad to have ya see if we can get some responses.

 

[Treekiller66]

glad to have ya see if we can get some responses.

Well i had a sit down with the cat salesman and heres what it comes down to. A tracked machine has got the best ride, stable with heavy loads, Wet muddy conditions they will roll like a tank. Sounds like a no brainier don't it. Well not so fast , those tracks cost cost cost and cost . I'm looking at a CTL 279 C new. These are in the park numbers . Retails for 54,000 My 262 Goes for 42,000. Then we run it for 1,000 hours if your really good and lucky 1,500. 2 grand up to 3 for just the track and that is just 1 SIDE!!!!!. And new tracks means new sprocket. Around 800.00 he thought. If your in derbies id be worried about cutting the tracks. Then sometime or another you gotta replace the rollers and final drives. EEEWWWWW! For as many hours as i put on them don't think its for me. But i still think its a heck of a machine. I'm gonna go with my 262C and keep with over the tire tracks when i need them, worked this long. If ya don't run lots of hours , on dirt allot and don't mind keeping a watchful eye on them probably a strong machine. But also my disclaimer i have never ran one just talk to a guy who sells them.

 

[cnord]

Well i had a sit down with the cat salesman and heres what it comes down to. A tracked machine has got the best ride, stable with heavy loads, Wet muddy conditions they will roll like a tank. Sounds like a no brainier don't it. Well not so fast , those tracks cost cost cost and cost . I'm looking at a CTL 279 C new. These are in the park numbers . Retails for 54,000 My 262 Goes for 42,000. Then we run it for 1,000 hours if your really good and lucky 1,500. 2 grand up to 3 for just the track and that is just 1 SIDE!!!!!. And new tracks means new sprocket. Around 800.00 he thought. If your in derbies id be worried about cutting the tracks. Then sometime or another you gotta replace the rollers and final drives. EEEWWWWW! For as many hours as i put on them don't think its for me. But i still think its a heck of a machine. I'm gonna go with my 262C and keep with over the tire tracks when i need them, worked this long. If ya don't run lots of hours , on dirt allot and don't mind keeping a watchful eye on them probably a strong machine. But also my disclaimer i have never ran one just talk to a guy who sells them.

Are those prices from dealer? A lot of times you can find cheaper priced, same quality tracks, at places like www.loaderpartssource.com . And I may not know, but I didn't think you had to change your sprocket every time? I thought just when it was warn down. And if you spray a ton of water every time you use the track and make sure it stays clean you will always save life on track, sprockets, rollers, and idlers. Keep things greased too. But if you don't need a tracked machine but only a few hours a year, then probably do what your doing with the track over tires.

 

[gtstang462002]

Are those prices from dealer? A lot of times you can find cheaper priced, same quality tracks, at places like www.loaderpartssource.com . And I may not know, but I didn't think you had to change your sprocket every time? I thought just when it was warn down. And if you spray a ton of water every time you use the track and make sure it stays clean you will always save life on track, sprockets, rollers, and idlers. Keep things greased too. But if you don't need a tracked machine but only a few hours a year, then probably do what your doing with the track over tires.

I have replaced tracks ahead of sprockets and sprockets ahead of tracks. It mostly depends on the enviroment that you are running the tracks in and the amount of daily maintenance that is performed after use. If you are running through mud day in and day out and clean your track system daily you will find the tracks to be the way to go. If you are running around an asphault or concrete yard with scrap metal you are better off with solid wheeled tires(tracks get cuts that tend to cause premature wear). I have bought about 16 rollers from loaderpartssource for a customer of mine and have yet to have a single roller last over 300 hours. I would recommend OEM for most hard parts unless they are 1/3 of the price of OEM. The cheaper off-brand tracks don't seem to hold up for any lenght of time either. I recommend finding a bridgestone dealer close to you and buying from them as you can get the OEM tracks for half what the dealer typically wants. All of my experience with these systems though has been Bobcat. I priced out some ASV stuff with is identical to the older CAT track systems and their similar components were twice that of the Bobcat components.

 

[lesgawlik]

I have replaced tracks ahead of sprockets and sprockets ahead of tracks. It mostly depends on the enviroment that you are running the tracks in and the amount of daily maintenance that is performed after use. If you are running through mud day in and day out and clean your track system daily you will find the tracks to be the way to go. If you are running around an asphault or concrete yard with scrap metal you are better off with solid wheeled tires(tracks get cuts that tend to cause premature wear). I have bought about 16 rollers from loaderpartssource for a customer of mine and have yet to have a single roller last over 300 hours. I would recommend OEM for most hard parts unless they are 1/3 of the price of OEM. The cheaper off-brand tracks don't seem to hold up for any lenght of time either. I recommend finding a bridgestone dealer close to you and buying from them as you can get the OEM tracks for half what the dealer typically wants. All of my experience with these systems though has been Bobcat. I priced out some ASV stuff with is identical to the older CAT track systems and their similar components were twice that of the Bobcat components.

I'm new to this, so please bear with me. Why is it important to clean the tracks every day when running through mud? My tracks have mud in them now, and it will probably be moist when I start running again. I would think that the drive system would throw out any mud as soon as the machine started running. If I were to clean the tracks, I suppose hosing them off would suffice?

 

[skidsteer.ca]

I'm new to this, so please bear with me. Why is it important to clean the tracks every day when running through mud? My tracks have mud in them now, and it will probably be moist when I start running again. I would think that the drive system would throw out any mud as soon as the machine started running. If I were to clean the tracks, I suppose hosing them off would suffice?

It depends on the make and model, but some machines mud builds up on and that prevents the grit from falling out. A local owner of a bobcat t190 wore out his sprockets because the mud build up around them and dried.
This created a trough with the sprocket in the middle. It filled with dirt, and while the sprocket churned away it there it cound not throw the grit out and wore itself out in about 400 hours. Often mud goes in soft but dries hard and rubs tracks as well.
Ken

 

[lesgawlik]

It depends on the make and model, but some machines mud builds up on and that prevents the grit from falling out. A local owner of a bobcat t190 wore out his sprockets because the mud build up around them and dried.
This created a trough with the sprocket in the middle. It filled with dirt, and while the sprocket churned away it there it cound not throw the grit out and wore itself out in about 400 hours. Often mud goes in soft but dries hard and rubs tracks as well.
Ken

I can see that now. I cleaned out my tracks, concentrating on the spocket areas. Gravel and debris can easily fall out the front unless it is caked up. When it gets caked up, any gravel or stones gets ground up in the spockets, and can't be pushed out the front. I just used a digging bar, very carefully, to scrape the mud out, and then I hosed the undercarriage off. I have a pressure washer. Is there any reason I couldn't pressure wash the undercarriage? The only thing I would worry about would be forcing water past a grease seal, or something like that.

 

[Pstone]

I can see that now. I cleaned out my tracks, concentrating on the spocket areas. Gravel and debris can easily fall out the front unless it is caked up. When it gets caked up, any gravel or stones gets ground up in the spockets, and can't be pushed out the front. I just used a digging bar, very carefully, to scrape the mud out, and then I hosed the undercarriage off. I have a pressure washer. Is there any reason I couldn't pressure wash the undercarriage? The only thing I would worry about would be forcing water past a grease seal, or something like that.

I run a rock quarry, whihc is about the most demanding envirnment you can imagine for a skid steer. Beyond the fact that you are constantly working in a high dust envirnment, limstone dust is especially fatal to equipment. We dont do anything small. All of our equipment is BIG. All of our supplies are BIG. We account for skid steers and pickup trucks as consumables.
That said, we tried a New Holland C190 tracked machine and that thing kept up amazingly well. We have had some problems with it of late, but overall that little CTL has been amazing. We have also tried the Bobcat and (IIRC) Case CTLs. The case performed very well...about like the new holland. Both will do the work of a small wheel loader and do it well. The Bobcat CTL was junk. The thing would get mud built up and get stalled out by WET MUD. You would have to creep it back to somewhere dry, run it back and forth to kick out the mud, then go back in...and usually be stalled down again by the time you got back to wherever you were working. The Bobcat also felt the most unstable of the 3. The C190 felt SOLID. The bobcat felt like you were sitting in a wheeled bobcat...not real stable under heavy loads.
The down side to the tracked machines is that you need a skilled operator to run them or you trash your tracks. We went through 2 sets of tracks on our first machine (the C190) in the first 600 hours of life....at $3K a set. We almost got rid of the thing then, but other than that it worked so well that we decided to see if a change in how we operate it would extend track life.
It did to a large degree. The rules on the wheel loaders is "you spin my tires I will have your ass". I extended that rule to the skid steer (substitute "tires" for "tracks").
I expect the tracks that are on there now to last 3000+ hours. As long as you actually train whoever is running it, and they are careful about spinning their tracks while sitting on top of a jagged rock the size of a watermellon, there are no problems. Put a rank newbie laborer in there and you have a problem.
As long as you are going to have a skilled operator in there who is not going to run the thing like he is mad at it, I would say go tracks all the way. You can take a tracked machine places that a wheeled machine will simply not go. We have put a breaker on ours and climbed it up to the top of a pile of oversize and started breaking up top. There is NO WAY that you would get a wheeled machine up there, but with the creative use of the arms/breaker/tilt and somebody who knows how to run the thing, you can climb that tracked machine onto all kinds of stuff that would be out of bounds for a wheeled unit.

 

[BigNicky98]

I run a rock quarry, whihc is about the most demanding envirnment you can imagine for a skid steer. Beyond the fact that you are constantly working in a high dust envirnment, limstone dust is especially fatal to equipment. We dont do anything small. All of our equipment is BIG. All of our supplies are BIG. We account for skid steers and pickup trucks as consumables.
That said, we tried a New Holland C190 tracked machine and that thing kept up amazingly well. We have had some problems with it of late, but overall that little CTL has been amazing. We have also tried the Bobcat and (IIRC) Case CTLs. The case performed very well...about like the new holland. Both will do the work of a small wheel loader and do it well. The Bobcat CTL was junk. The thing would get mud built up and get stalled out by WET MUD. You would have to creep it back to somewhere dry, run it back and forth to kick out the mud, then go back in...and usually be stalled down again by the time you got back to wherever you were working. The Bobcat also felt the most unstable of the 3. The C190 felt SOLID. The bobcat felt like you were sitting in a wheeled bobcat...not real stable under heavy loads.
The down side to the tracked machines is that you need a skilled operator to run them or you trash your tracks. We went through 2 sets of tracks on our first machine (the C190) in the first 600 hours of life....at $3K a set. We almost got rid of the thing then, but other than that it worked so well that we decided to see if a change in how we operate it would extend track life.
It did to a large degree. The rules on the wheel loaders is "you spin my tires I will have your ass". I extended that rule to the skid steer (substitute "tires" for "tracks").
I expect the tracks that are on there now to last 3000+ hours. As long as you actually train whoever is running it, and they are careful about spinning their tracks while sitting on top of a jagged rock the size of a watermellon, there are no problems. Put a rank newbie laborer in there and you have a problem.
As long as you are going to have a skilled operator in there who is not going to run the thing like he is mad at it, I would say go tracks all the way. You can take a tracked machine places that a wheeled machine will simply not go. We have put a breaker on ours and climbed it up to the top of a pile of oversize and started breaking up top. There is NO WAY that you would get a wheeled machine up there, but with the creative use of the arms/breaker/tilt and somebody who knows how to run the thing, you can climb that tracked machine onto all kinds of stuff that would be out of bounds for a wheeled unit.

Guys you all have really great points! Tracks vs Tires all comes down to working condition. Wet muddy application that require less ground pressure you would be looking at Tracks. Big factor in track wear comes down to driving technique. Most companys will tell you at the end of the day you need to clean out your tracks and DO not counter rotate like you would on a wheeled unit. 2 big killers to track life.Track machines seem to be the argo of this world go anywhere and do anything for sure. Tires there are so many options foam filled heavy walled CAT has there flex ports that apparently are really good. Has anyone used FLEXPORTS what is the response to them? All in all when you but a track loader or skidsteer the guy selling it to you needs to know what you are doing it with it most of the time quarry work or landscaping snow removal etc.

 

[RubberTracks]

I run a rock quarry, whihc is about the most demanding envirnment you can imagine for a skid steer. Beyond the fact that you are constantly working in a high dust envirnment, limstone dust is especially fatal to equipment. We dont do anything small. All of our equipment is BIG. All of our supplies are BIG. We account for skid steers and pickup trucks as consumables.
That said, we tried a New Holland C190 tracked machine and that thing kept up amazingly well. We have had some problems with it of late, but overall that little CTL has been amazing. We have also tried the Bobcat and (IIRC) Case CTLs. The case performed very well...about like the new holland. Both will do the work of a small wheel loader and do it well. The Bobcat CTL was junk. The thing would get mud built up and get stalled out by WET MUD. You would have to creep it back to somewhere dry, run it back and forth to kick out the mud, then go back in...and usually be stalled down again by the time you got back to wherever you were working. The Bobcat also felt the most unstable of the 3. The C190 felt SOLID. The bobcat felt like you were sitting in a wheeled bobcat...not real stable under heavy loads.
The down side to the tracked machines is that you need a skilled operator to run them or you trash your tracks. We went through 2 sets of tracks on our first machine (the C190) in the first 600 hours of life....at $3K a set. We almost got rid of the thing then, but other than that it worked so well that we decided to see if a change in how we operate it would extend track life.
It did to a large degree. The rules on the wheel loaders is "you spin my tires I will have your ass". I extended that rule to the skid steer (substitute "tires" for "tracks").
I expect the tracks that are on there now to last 3000+ hours. As long as you actually train whoever is running it, and they are careful about spinning their tracks while sitting on top of a jagged rock the size of a watermellon, there are no problems. Put a rank newbie laborer in there and you have a problem.
As long as you are going to have a skilled operator in there who is not going to run the thing like he is mad at it, I would say go tracks all the way. You can take a tracked machine places that a wheeled machine will simply not go. We have put a breaker on ours and climbed it up to the top of a pile of oversize and started breaking up top. There is NO WAY that you would get a wheeled machine up there, but with the creative use of the arms/breaker/tilt and somebody who knows how to run the thing, you can climb that tracked machine onto all kinds of stuff that would be out of bounds for a wheeled unit.

Excellent posts by both "gtstang462002" and "Pstone" The cost difference between the two machines will pay off in the end when it's fitted to the correct environment the machine will mainly perform in. There are certain jobs a track loader does better than a skid steer tire loader and vise versa. Like Pstone said above, operator error is the number one track/tire killer. The most popular question I always get is, "how many hours can I expect out of a set of tracks?" I always follow that question with two additional ones back to the customer, "It depends on the environment that the machine will mainly be performing in and what is the operator's experience behind the controls of the machine." From my experience in the field, the sprocket on a track loader should be replaced every 2-3 track replacement cycles. If the sprocket does not show any irregular wear patterns, it should not effect the pitch engagement to the tracks to the point where you might literally throw a track off the machine. Not all rubber tracks are built the same either. The saying, "You get what you pay for" goes a long way when you factor cost per/hour, downtime, etc. The last thing you want is for the machine to fail at the job site. Good luck with your decision.

 

[lesgawlik]

Excellent posts by both "gtstang462002" and "Pstone" The cost difference between the two machines will pay off in the end when it's fitted to the correct environment the machine will mainly perform in. There are certain jobs a track loader does better than a skid steer tire loader and vise versa. Like Pstone said above, operator error is the number one track/tire killer. The most popular question I always get is, "how many hours can I expect out of a set of tracks?" I always follow that question with two additional ones back to the customer, "It depends on the environment that the machine will mainly be performing in and what is the operator's experience behind the controls of the machine." From my experience in the field, the sprocket on a track loader should be replaced every 2-3 track replacement cycles. If the sprocket does not show any irregular wear patterns, it should not effect the pitch engagement to the tracks to the point where you might literally throw a track off the machine. Not all rubber tracks are built the same either. The saying, "You get what you pay for" goes a long way when you factor cost per/hour, downtime, etc. The last thing you want is for the machine to fail at the job site. Good luck with your decision.

Why is counter rotating the tracks bad for a short radius turn? What is the best technique?