tracks or tires for snow removal

[dirtbrokers]

What works best for snow removal a track machine or wheeled machine?

 

[Digdeep]

I sold Bobcats for over 8 years up in Wisconsin. I own a ASV RC50 and a S220 now. The RC50 runs circles around a skid in pushing snow but all of the rigid undercarriage machines- Bobcat, Case, NH, Takeuchi are terrible pushing snow. I would use a skid before I'd use a track machine without a suspension. I saw a guy late this last winter with a PT60 with aggressive tracks clearing a small parking lot. That machine flies- 11.5mph and I would put it against any skid steer in the same size class and even most of the larger ones.

 

[dirtbrokers]

I sold Bobcats for over 8 years up in Wisconsin. I own a ASV RC50 and a S220 now. The RC50 runs circles around a skid in pushing snow but all of the rigid undercarriage machines- Bobcat, Case, NH, Takeuchi are terrible pushing snow. I would use a skid before I'd use a track machine without a suspension. I saw a guy late this last winter with a PT60 with aggressive tracks clearing a small parking lot. That machine flies- 11.5mph and I would put it against any skid steer in the same size class and even most of the larger ones.

thanks for the info!

 

[scsindust]

thanks for the info!

Curious - what does suspension have to do with plowing? I ask because I have a T190 but I have the plow setup just like a regular setup - The plow can move up and down, with a little bit of side to side, just like my other plows on the trucks on float mode. It's not rigid to the machine, but held on by the two pins, and a chain, just like a truck. I haven't used it yet to plow, though I am excited to see how it does.

 

[Digdeep]

Curious - what does suspension have to do with plowing? I ask because I have a T190 but I have the plow setup just like a regular setup - The plow can move up and down, with a little bit of side to side, just like my other plows on the trucks on float mode. It's not rigid to the machine, but held on by the two pins, and a chain, just like a truck. I haven't used it yet to plow, though I am excited to see how it does.

The suspension on the ASV machines flexes when you put down pressure on the bucket or snow blade this lifts the chassis up without lifting the front of the tracks off of the ground and gives you more track on the ground when pushing. The Bobcat track machines lift up the front of the tracks just like tires when you put down pressure on the attachment. Go to youtube and type in ASV RC50 and look at the video.

 

[siduramaxde]

The suspension on the ASV machines flexes when you put down pressure on the bucket or snow blade this lifts the chassis up without lifting the front of the tracks off of the ground and gives you more track on the ground when pushing. The Bobcat track machines lift up the front of the tracks just like tires when you put down pressure on the attachment. Go to youtube and type in ASV RC50 and look at the video.

I use my machine for snow plowing and I plow about 32 acres every time it snows. I had an 863 before my T200 and I can't really tell too much difference in traction. The main difference is that the track machines ride pretty rough on pavement. I use a 10' Arctic snow pusher and it won't allow down pressure and just floats along. The Arctic snow pusher is the best thing I have ever used in snow removal.

 

[Digdeep]

I use my machine for snow plowing and I plow about 32 acres every time it snows. I had an 863 before my T200 and I can't really tell too much difference in traction. The main difference is that the track machines ride pretty rough on pavement. I use a 10' Arctic snow pusher and it won't allow down pressure and just floats along. The Arctic snow pusher is the best thing I have ever used in snow removal.

My RC50 runs circles around my S220. The reason you don't notice much of a difference between your 863 and the T200 is because the rigid undercarriage machines don't push snow all that well. Go to Youtube and look up the RC50 pushing the T250 backwards on both soft snow and hard packed snow.

 

[sp6x6]

My RC50 runs circles around my S220. The reason you don't notice much of a difference between your 863 and the T200 is because the rigid undercarriage machines don't push snow all that well. Go to Youtube and look up the RC50 pushing the T250 backwards on both soft snow and hard packed snow.

Up in NW MT the guys with tracks cant do the step drives after they ice up part way during the year. That is wear tires and chains excel . But I had a friend walk his track machine across a deep snow side hill that mine wuold never make.

 

[Skiddy]

Up in NW MT the guys with tracks cant do the step drives after they ice up part way during the year. That is wear tires and chains excel . But I had a friend walk his track machine across a deep snow side hill that mine wuold never make.

Dig deep those two comparrisons are a joke watch them close ...... on both of them the asv has a head start and gets the bobcat moving backwards before the guy in the bobcat even starts giving forward input.that is the oldest trick in the book and if the video was made by asv I would never buy one due to dishonest tactics, the same kind sheet used to happen on the dodge and ford commercials. lets compare apples to apples here CMON! I can almost guarantee you that for every asv king of the hill commercial that you can show one could make 10 bobcat winning commercials. number 1 in my book would be to look at resale values after just 1000 hours. That commercial stands here as a bottom line and nobody knows any of the parameters of the test so lets let the engineers in Gwinner set up the next commercial.

 

[Skiddy]

Dig deep those two comparrisons are a joke watch them close ...... on both of them the asv has a head start and gets the bobcat moving backwards before the guy in the bobcat even starts giving forward input.that is the oldest trick in the book and if the video was made by asv I would never buy one due to dishonest tactics, the same kind sheet used to happen on the dodge and ford commercials. lets compare apples to apples here CMON! I can almost guarantee you that for every asv king of the hill commercial that you can show one could make 10 bobcat winning commercials. number 1 in my book would be to look at resale values after just 1000 hours. That commercial stands here as a bottom line and nobody knows any of the parameters of the test so lets let the engineers in Gwinner set up the next commercial.

To go one step farther please post up the weights of both machines in the video. it's kinda like a cailac pushing around a simca aint it?

 

[Skiddy]

To go one step farther please post up the weights of both machines in the video. it's kinda like a cailac pushing around a simca aint it?

and lets also equip the asv with a simular smooth track.

 

[Land-Tech]

and lets also equip the asv with a simular smooth track.

The video is fun to watch but I'd like to see a Cat mtl same weight and see how it performs And operators that make an attempt at not breaking traction. Not really apples to apples.
As far as pushing snow, Ken has it right about the snow conditions being a game changer when you plow.After the first couple of plows here, you get a base of ice. I'm on pavement most of the time, so 1/4" is a big deal.Half the places I do are flat but the rest are steep or off camber to where you have plow.Some places I have to push up grades and lift a a full blade to the top of the pile.
What make me competive, is the speed that my machine moves A heavier machine going the same speed as a lighter one will always push more.I go as fast as any asv out there, 12.5 mph so I think that on level plow , similar weighted machines with the same size plow would probably have just about the same pushing power.A pick-up with a plow can push a tremendous amount of snow once they get up to speed.
The difference I see between a tracked machine of any kind and a wheeled machine is the power loss you see. If the machines are capareable in engine hp and the tracked is losing 20% of it power just running the track system I think that gives me an advantage when I hit the uphill grades or just getting up to speed.
Traction is most important to me when I start out and turning corners. Also when i'm trying stack snow. My machine is behind the plow so my wheels are usually on ice or hard pack, never in deep snow that the tracked machine excells at. If i'm going slow I don't have enertia to help, I need traction. Especially to turn because i'm applying more power to one side of the machine and backing off on the other. Rotating the blade helps a lot when you do this.
I've never understood how you can take a machine that weighs same but lighter ground pressure and larger surface contact, and create more tractive ability on ice and snow.This is the formula we use to design a sled. Rubber tires on ice produces the same results, so I throw chains on and the local asv maybe studs his tracks.I think I still have more traction because applying more weight to smaller area seems to increase my traction especially with the larger lugs that chains have. The suspension on the asv make no diff because you are not applying the ground pressure the wheeled machine has, and you can't increase it without adding weight. to your machine. This works in reverse for me in soft conditions.I will dig myself to China or maybe Australia,since I'm located in Alaska. But after freeze up, wheeled machines seem to do better with less effort.Scott

 

[Skiddy]

The video is fun to watch but I'd like to see a Cat mtl same weight and see how it performs And operators that make an attempt at not breaking traction. Not really apples to apples.
As far as pushing snow, Ken has it right about the snow conditions being a game changer when you plow.After the first couple of plows here, you get a base of ice. I'm on pavement most of the time, so 1/4" is a big deal.Half the places I do are flat but the rest are steep or off camber to where you have plow.Some places I have to push up grades and lift a a full blade to the top of the pile.
What make me competive, is the speed that my machine moves A heavier machine going the same speed as a lighter one will always push more.I go as fast as any asv out there, 12.5 mph so I think that on level plow , similar weighted machines with the same size plow would probably have just about the same pushing power.A pick-up with a plow can push a tremendous amount of snow once they get up to speed.
The difference I see between a tracked machine of any kind and a wheeled machine is the power loss you see. If the machines are capareable in engine hp and the tracked is losing 20% of it power just running the track system I think that gives me an advantage when I hit the uphill grades or just getting up to speed.
Traction is most important to me when I start out and turning corners. Also when i'm trying stack snow. My machine is behind the plow so my wheels are usually on ice or hard pack, never in deep snow that the tracked machine excells at. If i'm going slow I don't have enertia to help, I need traction. Especially to turn because i'm applying more power to one side of the machine and backing off on the other. Rotating the blade helps a lot when you do this.
I've never understood how you can take a machine that weighs same but lighter ground pressure and larger surface contact, and create more tractive ability on ice and snow.This is the formula we use to design a sled. Rubber tires on ice produces the same results, so I throw chains on and the local asv maybe studs his tracks.I think I still have more traction because applying more weight to smaller area seems to increase my traction especially with the larger lugs that chains have. The suspension on the asv make no diff because you are not applying the ground pressure the wheeled machine has, and you can't increase it without adding weight. to your machine. This works in reverse for me in soft conditions.I will dig myself to China or maybe Australia,since I'm located in Alaska. But after freeze up, wheeled machines seem to do better with less effort.Scott

DUDE look at the tracks man!!!!! you are comparing apples to grapes here. I love dishonest advertising! this is a perfect example of how it works there are only a certain percentage of people that even question bulls**t advertising like this. The rest.............. well I won't say it. If ASV has to resort to bashing the king of loaders to sell their product they are sorrily mistaken and sorrilly misguided in their marketing department. Bobcat has set the bar so high that their is now way at all ANY competition will get market share for many years to come barring some kind of goverenment intervention which in this day and age is not out of the question.

 

[Land-Tech]

DUDE look at the tracks man!!!!! you are comparing apples to grapes here. I love dishonest advertising! this is a perfect example of how it works there are only a certain percentage of people that even question bulls**t advertising like this. The rest.............. well I won't say it. If ASV has to resort to bashing the king of loaders to sell their product they are sorrily mistaken and sorrilly misguided in their marketing department. Bobcat has set the bar so high that their is now way at all ANY competition will get market share for many years to come barring some kind of goverenment intervention which in this day and age is not out of the question.

Who are you replying to? Scott

 

[Digdeep]

To go one step farther please post up the weights of both machines in the video. it's kinda like a cailac pushing around a simca aint it?

RC50- about 5300lbs 50hp SR80- about 9000lbs 80hp T250- about 9300lbs 81hp

 

[Digdeep]

Dig deep those two comparrisons are a joke watch them close ...... on both of them the asv has a head start and gets the bobcat moving backwards before the guy in the bobcat even starts giving forward input.that is the oldest trick in the book and if the video was made by asv I would never buy one due to dishonest tactics, the same kind sheet used to happen on the dodge and ford commercials. lets compare apples to apples here CMON! I can almost guarantee you that for every asv king of the hill commercial that you can show one could make 10 bobcat winning commercials. number 1 in my book would be to look at resale values after just 1000 hours. That commercial stands here as a bottom line and nobody knows any of the parameters of the test so lets let the engineers in Gwinner set up the next commercial.

I am looking at the tracks man. Both tracks are the ones that come STANDARD with the machines. I think you are mistaken about the dishonest advertising because this was simply a video clip off of Youtube and not some advertising campaign by ASV. At least as far as I'm aware of. At least I've never gotten any promotional material from ASV similar to the video clip. Maybe you have. I own both a RC50 and an S220, I sold Bobcats for over 8 years in Wisconsin, and I was simply answering a question based on my experience that someone posted related to pushing snow. In any case, it should be hard for anyone as far as I'm concerned to "fix" a video that shows a 5300lb 47net hp machine pushing a 9300lb 81 net hp backwards. Regardless, the fact that a 5300lb machine can push 9300lbs backwards should speak volumes about how well it would push snow....against tracks or tires. only my experiences. You may be on to something with you conspiracy about marketshare...Bobcat is now owned by a Korean company Doosan. Nothing that I love more than seeing our hard earned dollars going back to some foreign owned company.

 

[sp6x6]

I am looking at the tracks man. Both tracks are the ones that come STANDARD with the machines. I think you are mistaken about the dishonest advertising because this was simply a video clip off of Youtube and not some advertising campaign by ASV. At least as far as I'm aware of. At least I've never gotten any promotional material from ASV similar to the video clip. Maybe you have. I own both a RC50 and an S220, I sold Bobcats for over 8 years in Wisconsin, and I was simply answering a question based on my experience that someone posted related to pushing snow. In any case, it should be hard for anyone as far as I'm concerned to "fix" a video that shows a 5300lb 47net hp machine pushing a 9300lb 81 net hp backwards. Regardless, the fact that a 5300lb machine can push 9300lbs backwards should speak volumes about how well it would push snow....against tracks or tires. only my experiences. You may be on to something with you conspiracy about marketshare...Bobcat is now owned by a Korean company Doosan. Nothing that I love more than seeing our hard earned dollars going back to some foreign owned company.

My excavating buddy calls me later in the year to cover some of his tough icy jobs, driveways in steep terrain. He has T190, I HAVE S185 WITH GREAT , STUDDED chains

 

[nilestracing]

My excavating buddy calls me later in the year to cover some of his tough icy jobs, driveways in steep terrain. He has T190, I HAVE S185 WITH GREAT , STUDDED chains

Its true tracks suck in ice however in snow nothing will touch it. On a icy hill my t300 was a deathtrap going up and down a slight hill side moving a concrete porch. After several 360's and some serious swearing it got the job done. It had c notch tracks and im not real sure that didnt have something todo with it however.

 

[scsindust]

Its true tracks suck in ice however in snow nothing will touch it. On a icy hill my t300 was a deathtrap going up and down a slight hill side moving a concrete porch. After several 360's and some serious swearing it got the job done. It had c notch tracks and im not real sure that didnt have something todo with it however.

nilestracing is so right. tracks are useless on ice, but then again, so are regular tires. In 20+" of snow if went through it like there was nothing there. I have the tracks without the c-notch, too.