Track Drive Motors

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thetool

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Mar 22, 2008
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Last friday, doing maintenance on a customer's T300 with 653 hours, I was able to convince him to let me change out his hub oil and clean/replace his case drain filter.
The hub oil on the left motor was darker and thinner, while on the right was clean, but it seemed it was a short-shot, as very little drained out.
The case drain filter element did indeed have some particles adhered to it, as well as some particles in oil suspension inside the filter housing. It looked to me like nothing more than a few break-in sheddings, but there was one small piece of rubber.
On saturday, I visited my loocal dealer to pick up some parts on an unrelated issue, and happened to see no less than three pairs of track drive motors, sitting on pallets in his return/hold area, with the brake housings blown out.
Each one of those pallets represented a bill of around $10K in my estimation, for motors alone and discounting damaged pumps.
When I ordered another hub oil kit to replace my stock, I was told that I am the only who ever bought this part number.
 

Tazza

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I'm amazed at just how expensive the motors are.
So you are the only one that actually services the drive motor hub oil? From what i have read its very important to replace the oil or you risk failure and rather costly repairs which i'm sure users will find out if they don't keep servicing them.
 

Fishfiles

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I'm amazed at just how expensive the motors are.
So you are the only one that actually services the drive motor hub oil? From what i have read its very important to replace the oil or you risk failure and rather costly repairs which i'm sure users will find out if they don't keep servicing them.
Mobil Synthic 150 is the oil type and it is availbable from an oil distributor , best price I ever found was $1,480 per 5 gallon bucket and quit looking , which is alot cheaper than the Bobcat dealer ,but still totally ridiculus , using it 6 ozs at a time it would take years to use up 5 gallons , I just get it from the dealer and change it ever second oil change which is a 500 hour interval ,a few I know change it every 250 hours as they have had failures and are weiry , it only holds 3 ounzes per side , I'd bet since tracked loaders have came out I have changed at least 30 travel motors on Bobcats , there are OEM reman units available but the availablity is not always there form my dealer , it's hit and miss if they have a reman in stock -------T series is an expensive machine to up keep and repair ------I have never changed not one travel motor on a Takeuchi tracked loader and there are many around here , not as many as Bobcat but that still tells me something ----------- alot of people around here are going back to wheel loaders with tracks over flat proof tires and cutting the operating and maintance cost dramatically , ones that need to not mark the concrete and pavement are using the rubber pads on the tracks
 
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thetool

thetool

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Mobil Synthic 150 is the oil type and it is availbable from an oil distributor , best price I ever found was $1,480 per 5 gallon bucket and quit looking , which is alot cheaper than the Bobcat dealer ,but still totally ridiculus , using it 6 ozs at a time it would take years to use up 5 gallons , I just get it from the dealer and change it ever second oil change which is a 500 hour interval ,a few I know change it every 250 hours as they have had failures and are weiry , it only holds 3 ounzes per side , I'd bet since tracked loaders have came out I have changed at least 30 travel motors on Bobcats , there are OEM reman units available but the availablity is not always there form my dealer , it's hit and miss if they have a reman in stock -------T series is an expensive machine to up keep and repair ------I have never changed not one travel motor on a Takeuchi tracked loader and there are many around here , not as many as Bobcat but that still tells me something ----------- alot of people around here are going back to wheel loaders with tracks over flat proof tires and cutting the operating and maintance cost dramatically , ones that need to not mark the concrete and pavement are using the rubber pads on the tracks
Yeah-I should have said I was the only one who ever bought this part number at my local dealer. They're not pushing the maintenance and it shows in the blown up motors they have laying around.
Fish, I would like to know who quoted you that price on that oil. My local Mobil dealer told me it was not available in the United States.
Mobilgear SHC XMP 150. $300/gallon is better than $300/liter. If we could get 3 more guys we could buy a bucket and split it 5 ways.......=).
 

Fishfiles

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Yeah-I should have said I was the only one who ever bought this part number at my local dealer. They're not pushing the maintenance and it shows in the blown up motors they have laying around.
Fish, I would like to know who quoted you that price on that oil. My local Mobil dealer told me it was not available in the United States.
Mobilgear SHC XMP 150. $300/gallon is better than $300/liter. If we could get 3 more guys we could buy a bucket and split it 5 ways.......=).
Wes-Pet Petrolium in Metairie , La , mans name is Wes Randal and he is a super nice guy , I gave him the MSDS sheet that came in the kit and it took him a couple of days , note I have seen it sold by Bobcat in three forms , as you mentioned a kit was the first way , it included a clear screw top bottle with 6 ozs, a 4 onze syringe , instructions and a asorbant cloth , then it started coming in a screw top bottle , and now a clear minuature gear oil bottle that the top can be cut and oil squeezed into little hole , and I am pretty sure it has three different part numbers , the kit you discribed is longer avaiable down here
 

bobcat_ron

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Wes-Pet Petrolium in Metairie , La , mans name is Wes Randal and he is a super nice guy , I gave him the MSDS sheet that came in the kit and it took him a couple of days , note I have seen it sold by Bobcat in three forms , as you mentioned a kit was the first way , it included a clear screw top bottle with 6 ozs, a 4 onze syringe , instructions and a asorbant cloth , then it started coming in a screw top bottle , and now a clear minuature gear oil bottle that the top can be cut and oil squeezed into little hole , and I am pretty sure it has three different part numbers , the kit you discribed is longer avaiable down here
I had to go through that oil change twice, I was shocked at the little amount of oil in there, my drive motor blew up at 900 hours, exactly 728 days after the warranty on the drive motors ran out, and only 2 days left on paper, so it was done at no cost.
There are still bobcat CTL's with drive motor issues, mkes me wonder if the newer undercarriages will be a problem.
 
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thetool

thetool

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I had to go through that oil change twice, I was shocked at the little amount of oil in there, my drive motor blew up at 900 hours, exactly 728 days after the warranty on the drive motors ran out, and only 2 days left on paper, so it was done at no cost.
There are still bobcat CTL's with drive motor issues, mkes me wonder if the newer undercarriages will be a problem.
I'm not seeing as many T180/190 motors fail as the large frame, first generation motors with the smaller hubs. Maybe it's because there are more large-frames out there?
I don't think it's an undercarriage issue, and the only difference I know of about "newer undercarriages" with bobcat is that they put the rollers on leaf springs. That's about the only change you could make to a system that already works pretty well. No need for a ground-up re-design I guess.
I think the problem with Bobcat motors is the high-preload hubs needing expensive oil on a regular basis, not getting done, and that stupid case drain filter.
I'm really almost ready to recommend that they (the filters) be discarded after the first 500 hours. I don't think they serve any useful purpose other than to kill drive motors.
 

Fishfiles

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I'm not seeing as many T180/190 motors fail as the large frame, first generation motors with the smaller hubs. Maybe it's because there are more large-frames out there?
I don't think it's an undercarriage issue, and the only difference I know of about "newer undercarriages" with bobcat is that they put the rollers on leaf springs. That's about the only change you could make to a system that already works pretty well. No need for a ground-up re-design I guess.
I think the problem with Bobcat motors is the high-preload hubs needing expensive oil on a regular basis, not getting done, and that stupid case drain filter.
I'm really almost ready to recommend that they (the filters) be discarded after the first 500 hours. I don't think they serve any useful purpose other than to kill drive motors.
The case drain filter is important , it protects the system form particles if you have a failure on one side it protects the other side from particles going thru it , I have seen where people change a travel motor and not service the filter , and a week later blow the other side out , when I did the other side for them the case drain filter would be so full of flakes and chunks , that it would let stuff thru it , I think a small scerw on filter like used on a pilot system would be easier to service and do a better job , also have seen where the motor failure sent chunks thru the charge pressure relief and scare it up and lowered charge pressure which cause an operating problem of not being able to do two functions at the same time , it will choke the machine down and act just like a fuel filter problem -------------tool did you locate the oil from another source yet
 
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thetool

thetool

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The case drain filter is important , it protects the system form particles if you have a failure on one side it protects the other side from particles going thru it , I have seen where people change a travel motor and not service the filter , and a week later blow the other side out , when I did the other side for them the case drain filter would be so full of flakes and chunks , that it would let stuff thru it , I think a small scerw on filter like used on a pilot system would be easier to service and do a better job , also have seen where the motor failure sent chunks thru the charge pressure relief and scare it up and lowered charge pressure which cause an operating problem of not being able to do two functions at the same time , it will choke the machine down and act just like a fuel filter problem -------------tool did you locate the oil from another source yet
I agree that the filtration is important in theory. In practice, though, I'm seeing that because the filter acts as designed, and is not changed as required, that that is eventually more destructive than having no filter at all. I hear you, fishfiles-but I'm on the fence about it.
I was going to wait till I saw it with my own eyes, then brag-but I've got a contact in Germany who found the oil for 12 euros/liter, and he's going to "attempt" to send me a bottle.
 

Fishfiles

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I agree that the filtration is important in theory. In practice, though, I'm seeing that because the filter acts as designed, and is not changed as required, that that is eventually more destructive than having no filter at all. I hear you, fishfiles-but I'm on the fence about it.
I was going to wait till I saw it with my own eyes, then brag-but I've got a contact in Germany who found the oil for 12 euros/liter, and he's going to "attempt" to send me a bottle.
How much per ounze -----You know what I found today , a Berco source for t series rollers and idlers which are exact replacement of the OEM stuff I picked up yesterday at half the prices , $2,000 plus wasted on 4 parts
 
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thetool

thetool

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How much per ounze -----You know what I found today , a Berco source for t series rollers and idlers which are exact replacement of the OEM stuff I picked up yesterday at half the prices , $2,000 plus wasted on 4 parts
That's about 45 cents an ounce at today's exchange rate....=). Like I say, I'll believe it's a good deal when I have the bottle in my hand. One liter will do about 5 large-frames I guess, for $15.60 at todays exchange rate of $1.30/euro.
Berco? I always just have my customers buy the stuff from the local dealer, but I'll check it out.
I'm still new at this.....=).
 

siduramaxde

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How much per ounze -----You know what I found today , a Berco source for t series rollers and idlers which are exact replacement of the OEM stuff I picked up yesterday at half the prices , $2,000 plus wasted on 4 parts
Can you tell us about the Berco source????
 

Fishfiles

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Can you tell us about the Berco source????
There are sources here that sell Berco and other cheaper brands of track rails , rollers , idlers and such , in fact some OEM dealers here buy Berco from them and resell to their customers , at about a 150% mark up , you would never know the difference that it wasn't exactly an OEM part from the manufaturer if I wouldn't have busted them on this one out , seems sometimes a part is OEM for so many years before it can be sold after market , sometimes another manufacturer will use the same part and then it could become available , so search a distributor that sells Berco parts and give them the Bobcat part numbers and they can get it , if you can't locate one I could get shipped to you rollers and idler for say about 25% less than Bobcat sells them for and make a few bucks doing it , how many do you want
 
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thetool

thetool

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There are sources here that sell Berco and other cheaper brands of track rails , rollers , idlers and such , in fact some OEM dealers here buy Berco from them and resell to their customers , at about a 150% mark up , you would never know the difference that it wasn't exactly an OEM part from the manufaturer if I wouldn't have busted them on this one out , seems sometimes a part is OEM for so many years before it can be sold after market , sometimes another manufacturer will use the same part and then it could become available , so search a distributor that sells Berco parts and give them the Bobcat part numbers and they can get it , if you can't locate one I could get shipped to you rollers and idler for say about 25% less than Bobcat sells them for and make a few bucks doing it , how many do you want
I'm very happy today, got my two 1-liter bottles of Mobilgear SHC XMP 150 gear oil from Germany and it's absolutely the right stuff.
Should last me about a year I guess.....=).
 

dlong

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I'm very happy today, got my two 1-liter bottles of Mobilgear SHC XMP 150 gear oil from Germany and it's absolutely the right stuff.
Should last me about a year I guess.....=).
where is the case drain filter on a t 250? It is time to replace the drive motor oil and i want to do it correctly! I was also told that the later model t series loaders are far less prone to the drive motor failure, is that your experience?
 

Fishfiles

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where is the case drain filter on a t 250? It is time to replace the drive motor oil and i want to do it correctly! I was also told that the later model t series loaders are far less prone to the drive motor failure, is that your experience?
the case drain filter is a aluminum cylinder looking two piece screw together filter housing which is connected to the drain line hoses coming off the travel motor , there is a porous rock filter inside , take care when cleaning it out as it can be reassembled wrong , there are two springs inside , take note of how it is put together as if you do it wrong it will let trash go into your system --------I would agree that the newer style motors are better but they do still blow out
 

gmlcinc

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the case drain filter is a aluminum cylinder looking two piece screw together filter housing which is connected to the drain line hoses coming off the travel motor , there is a porous rock filter inside , take care when cleaning it out as it can be reassembled wrong , there are two springs inside , take note of how it is put together as if you do it wrong it will let trash go into your system --------I would agree that the newer style motors are better but they do still blow out
I have my track off now doing my second idler rebuild in two weeks. The only thing I saved on the last one was the idler itself. Hopefully I caught this one in time so I only have to change out bearings. Any one know of a generic bearing that works? Also, how do you change the hub oil since I have the track off? I have the service manual but can't find it.
 
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