tilt cylinder

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Centurion

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Can anyone tell me if a tilt cylinder from a 763 will fit on a 743? The pictures I have seen of the cylinder look like it might work, but I have poured enough into this project already and don't want to buy something I cannot use. THe description says 3.25" bore 14.625 stroke thats all the info I have. Any help would be appreciated.
 

Tazza

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Can you tell me what info you need? as i assume you have your 743 cylinder out. I have a 751 cylinder out of the machine I'm working on so i can easily measure body sizes for you. I'm pretty sure bore and stroke are the same but easily measured. The 751 and 763 cylinders look the same to me, worst case i can pull the 763 cylinder and check as the bobtach needs to come off.
 
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Centurion

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Can you tell me what info you need? as i assume you have your 743 cylinder out. I have a 751 cylinder out of the machine I'm working on so i can easily measure body sizes for you. I'm pretty sure bore and stroke are the same but easily measured. The 751 and 763 cylinders look the same to me, worst case i can pull the 763 cylinder and check as the bobtach needs to come off.
I really do not know what info I need, the cylinder I found was purchased for a 763, It looks similar to the one on my 743, but I will not have that back until tomorrow evening. I didn't kow if there was a way to see if they are the same easily. I am new to this world, and greatly appreciate all the help I have gotten from this site. I guess when I get my cylinder, I can measure and e-mail the guy selling questions. I thought someone may know if it would fit.
 

Tazza

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I really do not know what info I need, the cylinder I found was purchased for a 763, It looks similar to the one on my 743, but I will not have that back until tomorrow evening. I didn't kow if there was a way to see if they are the same easily. I am new to this world, and greatly appreciate all the help I have gotten from this site. I guess when I get my cylinder, I can measure and e-mail the guy selling questions. I thought someone may know if it would fit.
They *look* exactly the same, i have pulled a few 743 ones down and just did a 763 and they were the same, the only difference was the piston inside but i don't think that would be too much of a problem. The only concern may be stick travel length, you don't want it over extending and causing problems again.
Sorry i can't give you a definate answer though, have you tried calling your dealer? and ask if the part numbers are the same? I have manuals for both machines at home.... I'll try and remember to check the part numbers, you can even send me a reminder e-mail. Click on my nick and it should show my profile including an e-mail address.
 

Tazza

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They *look* exactly the same, i have pulled a few 743 ones down and just did a 763 and they were the same, the only difference was the piston inside but i don't think that would be too much of a problem. The only concern may be stick travel length, you don't want it over extending and causing problems again.
Sorry i can't give you a definate answer though, have you tried calling your dealer? and ask if the part numbers are the same? I have manuals for both machines at home.... I'll try and remember to check the part numbers, you can even send me a reminder e-mail. Click on my nick and it should show my profile including an e-mail address.
The 763 cylinder i measured was 1/2" longer than the 743. The part numbers for the tilt cylinders for a 743, 751 and 763 are all different.... At a glance they are the same, but lengths seem a little different and the gland nut is shorter in the 751 so stroke will be longer than the 743 and 763. They also run different pistons! Minor differences on the outside too, like a stud welded to hold the tube line instead of a clamp.
Long story short, they are not interchangeable but i believe if you spent the time to change the pivot point on the bobtach you could get them to work as long as your stops were also adjusted correctly to prevent over tilting and possible ram stick bending.
 
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Centurion

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The 763 cylinder i measured was 1/2" longer than the 743. The part numbers for the tilt cylinders for a 743, 751 and 763 are all different.... At a glance they are the same, but lengths seem a little different and the gland nut is shorter in the 751 so stroke will be longer than the 743 and 763. They also run different pistons! Minor differences on the outside too, like a stud welded to hold the tube line instead of a clamp.
Long story short, they are not interchangeable but i believe if you spent the time to change the pivot point on the bobtach you could get them to work as long as your stops were also adjusted correctly to prevent over tilting and possible ram stick bending.
Got my old cylinder back, and and almost out of the woods. Got the part out that was stuck, repairs will commence shortly. Thanks to everyone for all of the help.
 
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Centurion

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Got my old cylinder back, and and almost out of the woods. Got the part out that was stuck, repairs will commence shortly. Thanks to everyone for all of the help.
Finally got a cylinder back on my machine, now the next part of the saga. Once hooked up, the cylinder will retract fine, and bogs down the motor all the way back. Tilting down, it does not seem to have any pressure. Do I need to bleed the air from the lines? The tilt pedal locked up at one point, possibly air bound? Got it free, by exerting a bit of extra force on it. THe cylinder I put on, is from a later model than mine, but the only difference was the steel tube on the side, I put my old one on, and everything lined up fine. If any one can tell me what to do from here, I am getting frustrated, seems like every time I get closer to having things running, I run into a road block. I need some help on this one. THe reason there may be extra air in the system is because when I had the cylinder off, I started the bobcat, and did not notice all of the hydraulic oil coming out, until my clothes were saturated on the legs! The other thing I noticed, is when I retract the cylinder all the way, and then shut down the engine, the hour meter keeps running because something is holding pressure, if I press the tilt forward pedal and relieve pressure, all goes back to normal.


Help!
 

Tazza

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Finally got a cylinder back on my machine, now the next part of the saga. Once hooked up, the cylinder will retract fine, and bogs down the motor all the way back. Tilting down, it does not seem to have any pressure. Do I need to bleed the air from the lines? The tilt pedal locked up at one point, possibly air bound? Got it free, by exerting a bit of extra force on it. THe cylinder I put on, is from a later model than mine, but the only difference was the steel tube on the side, I put my old one on, and everything lined up fine. If any one can tell me what to do from here, I am getting frustrated, seems like every time I get closer to having things running, I run into a road block. I need some help on this one. THe reason there may be extra air in the system is because when I had the cylinder off, I started the bobcat, and did not notice all of the hydraulic oil coming out, until my clothes were saturated on the legs! The other thing I noticed, is when I retract the cylinder all the way, and then shut down the engine, the hour meter keeps running because something is holding pressure, if I press the tilt forward pedal and relieve pressure, all goes back to normal.


Help!
It sounds like the piston is sitting too far back causing the piston to block the inlet port of the ram, this will make it so you have to put force on the bucket to pull the stick forward to let the oil in to get past the inlet hole then its ok till you fully retract it again.
Did you pull the ram apart? i'm just wondering if the piston is the wrong way around causing it to cover the inlet port.
The hour metre clicking over is electrical, the pedal should have nothing to do with it ticking over.
Air in the system will cause jittery operation but not for it to stick.
Keep at it, you'll get it sorted out! I'd offer to help you out over the phone, but i live a little too far away! unless you have MSN messenger.
Don't let it beat you!
 
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Centurion

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It sounds like the piston is sitting too far back causing the piston to block the inlet port of the ram, this will make it so you have to put force on the bucket to pull the stick forward to let the oil in to get past the inlet hole then its ok till you fully retract it again.
Did you pull the ram apart? i'm just wondering if the piston is the wrong way around causing it to cover the inlet port.
The hour metre clicking over is electrical, the pedal should have nothing to do with it ticking over.
Air in the system will cause jittery operation but not for it to stick.
Keep at it, you'll get it sorted out! I'd offer to help you out over the phone, but i live a little too far away! unless you have MSN messenger.
Don't let it beat you!
Hour meter keeps going because something is still holding pressure until I press the tilt forward pedal. Ram will extend, but appears to have no pressure except when retracting it has good pressure. If the line to the back of the cylinder is full of air, is it possible that could cause this? I cannot work on it again until tomorrow afternoon, but my plan is to loosen the rear hydraulic line on the tilt cylinder and try to bleed air from that line and see what happens. If that does not work, it could possibly be a valve sticking. It is frustrating, especially when the wife see's more work being done on the 743 than on the property!
 

Tazza

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Hour meter keeps going because something is still holding pressure until I press the tilt forward pedal. Ram will extend, but appears to have no pressure except when retracting it has good pressure. If the line to the back of the cylinder is full of air, is it possible that could cause this? I cannot work on it again until tomorrow afternoon, but my plan is to loosen the rear hydraulic line on the tilt cylinder and try to bleed air from that line and see what happens. If that does not work, it could possibly be a valve sticking. It is frustrating, especially when the wife see's more work being done on the 743 than on the property!
There is still no reason for the hour meter to keep running even if there is pressure, someone must have done some funky wiring to your machine!
With air, it should purge with a few cycles of the cylinder. There will be a small amount of air in there but over time it will all go. The valve shouldn't stick as you have power in one direction but not the other, as long as you still have full motion of the pedal. Thats the only thing i can think that is left. I assume it was all good before the stick broke off?
I was half thinking load checks but they only seem to by-pass small amounts of oil.... They could be checked if you can gain access. You can see on your control block that there are 4 sections, find the tilt section, i think its the top. Where the tube lines exit there will be 2 bolt heads, behind here are your load checks. It wouldn't hurt to check them and replaces the seals. Make sure nothing is stuck in the poppet holding it open.
Sorry i can't be more help, it has to be something simple! as i assume it was working before.
 

thetool

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Mar 22, 2008
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There is still no reason for the hour meter to keep running even if there is pressure, someone must have done some funky wiring to your machine!
With air, it should purge with a few cycles of the cylinder. There will be a small amount of air in there but over time it will all go. The valve shouldn't stick as you have power in one direction but not the other, as long as you still have full motion of the pedal. Thats the only thing i can think that is left. I assume it was all good before the stick broke off?
I was half thinking load checks but they only seem to by-pass small amounts of oil.... They could be checked if you can gain access. You can see on your control block that there are 4 sections, find the tilt section, i think its the top. Where the tube lines exit there will be 2 bolt heads, behind here are your load checks. It wouldn't hurt to check them and replaces the seals. Make sure nothing is stuck in the poppet holding it open.
Sorry i can't be more help, it has to be something simple! as i assume it was working before.
A correctly wired hour meter will continue to run for a little bit after you shut off your engine, until engine oil pressure bleeds off. Probably a coincidental distraction right now.
It sounds good about perhaps the piston being backwards, but also depending on what that cylinder came from, it could have been designed so that the geometry didn't allow the piston to bottom out and cover the port, and the new application's geometry does.....
 
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Centurion

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There is still no reason for the hour meter to keep running even if there is pressure, someone must have done some funky wiring to your machine!
With air, it should purge with a few cycles of the cylinder. There will be a small amount of air in there but over time it will all go. The valve shouldn't stick as you have power in one direction but not the other, as long as you still have full motion of the pedal. Thats the only thing i can think that is left. I assume it was all good before the stick broke off?
I was half thinking load checks but they only seem to by-pass small amounts of oil.... They could be checked if you can gain access. You can see on your control block that there are 4 sections, find the tilt section, i think its the top. Where the tube lines exit there will be 2 bolt heads, behind here are your load checks. It wouldn't hurt to check them and replaces the seals. Make sure nothing is stuck in the poppet holding it open.
Sorry i can't be more help, it has to be something simple! as i assume it was working before.
As far as air in the system, The resevoir got so low the oil light came on when I had the engine running without the cylinder on. I am going to run the machine for a while to see if any air is causing the situation, I give it time to get out before tearing into everything. As for the hour meter, it keeps running, I turn the key on, and the oil light is off, I press the tilt pedal, pressure is relieved, and the oil light comes on, all this with out the engine running. The oil light is tied in to the hydraulic pressure switch on this machine.
 
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Centurion

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It sounds like the piston is sitting too far back causing the piston to block the inlet port of the ram, this will make it so you have to put force on the bucket to pull the stick forward to let the oil in to get past the inlet hole then its ok till you fully retract it again.
Did you pull the ram apart? i'm just wondering if the piston is the wrong way around causing it to cover the inlet port.
The hour metre clicking over is electrical, the pedal should have nothing to do with it ticking over.
Air in the system will cause jittery operation but not for it to stick.
Keep at it, you'll get it sorted out! I'd offer to help you out over the phone, but i live a little too far away! unless you have MSN messenger.
Don't let it beat you!
I do not have a problem of having to pull out the ram, the problem is, before the mishap, with the bucket sitting on the ground, I could tilt down and pick the wheels off the ground. Now it does not have any down power, the weight of the bucket will let it tilt if the arms are raised, but there is a large lack of power, the engine will bog down when I fully retract, but when extending, the is no drain on the engine when pushing against the ground. Before the mishap, I did not have these problems.
 

Tazza

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I do not have a problem of having to pull out the ram, the problem is, before the mishap, with the bucket sitting on the ground, I could tilt down and pick the wheels off the ground. Now it does not have any down power, the weight of the bucket will let it tilt if the arms are raised, but there is a large lack of power, the engine will bog down when I fully retract, but when extending, the is no drain on the engine when pushing against the ground. Before the mishap, I did not have these problems.
So, the engine bogs down whenever you try and push down? even if its not at the end of its travel? if so, it sounds like you have a restriction in one of the ports. Some machines have anti-cav valves that can come loose and plug ports up. It will cause slow operation and the engine will bog down. I'd have a look to ensure thats not your problem.
 

thetool

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So, the engine bogs down whenever you try and push down? even if its not at the end of its travel? if so, it sounds like you have a restriction in one of the ports. Some machines have anti-cav valves that can come loose and plug ports up. It will cause slow operation and the engine will bog down. I'd have a look to ensure thats not your problem.
Tazza-I"ll bet you nailed it.
On the front of your control valve there are ports that a port relief cartridge screws into. For your tilt circuit, it is a cartridge on the center port, if it has one. There was a rash of failures where the poppet would snap off and travel through the system, and I often the piece in the rod end of the cylinder! This is what could have jammed your cylinder in the first place.
Pull that cartridge and see if something looks broken off and missing form the end. Pull another to check it against, pull them all in case I'm confused about which port it may be in, but I'll bet you find a broken one, the port relief for rod end of the tilt circuit, and your flow is bypassing inside your valve.
 
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Centurion

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Tazza-I"ll bet you nailed it.
On the front of your control valve there are ports that a port relief cartridge screws into. For your tilt circuit, it is a cartridge on the center port, if it has one. There was a rash of failures where the poppet would snap off and travel through the system, and I often the piece in the rod end of the cylinder! This is what could have jammed your cylinder in the first place.
Pull that cartridge and see if something looks broken off and missing form the end. Pull another to check it against, pull them all in case I'm confused about which port it may be in, but I'll bet you find a broken one, the port relief for rod end of the tilt circuit, and your flow is bypassing inside your valve.
Got everything up and running correctly again. THe lack of pressure on the bucket was caused by air in the system. I ran the machine and hydraulics for about 15 minutes and checked the oil resevoir, and the oil was foaming from air. I let the machine sit for an hour to get rid of the foam and did the same thing all day, the last try I was trying to pick the front wheels off the ground and it would not work, kept trying several times, and it finally started getting more pressure. All is correct now, oil pressure light working corectly, hour meter, and hydraulics. Figure it will take a few more times to get rid of all the air in the system. Thanks to everyone for all of the help.
 

thetool

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Got everything up and running correctly again. THe lack of pressure on the bucket was caused by air in the system. I ran the machine and hydraulics for about 15 minutes and checked the oil resevoir, and the oil was foaming from air. I let the machine sit for an hour to get rid of the foam and did the same thing all day, the last try I was trying to pick the front wheels off the ground and it would not work, kept trying several times, and it finally started getting more pressure. All is correct now, oil pressure light working corectly, hour meter, and hydraulics. Figure it will take a few more times to get rid of all the air in the system. Thanks to everyone for all of the help.
I'm happy it wasn't what I thought it was.....=) You might want to double check your pump inlet hose and hose clamps to make sure that it's not sucking air.
So what is the bottom line here? Did you swap in the 763 cylinder or get your original cylinder repaired?
 
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Centurion

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I'm happy it wasn't what I thought it was.....=) You might want to double check your pump inlet hose and hose clamps to make sure that it's not sucking air.
So what is the bottom line here? Did you swap in the 763 cylinder or get your original cylinder repaired?
Actually found a later model 743 cylinder, used the tube off my cylinder to make it work. I am in the process of getting machine work done on my old cylinder to get it back in shape so I will then have another cylinder for backup. Now all I need to do is figure out how to make some bucket stops for my machine with the old style bobtach. Tazza sent some pics a while back, but it looks like he has the newer style bobtach, so if anyone has ideas that may help, please pass them on.
 

Tazza

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Actually found a later model 743 cylinder, used the tube off my cylinder to make it work. I am in the process of getting machine work done on my old cylinder to get it back in shape so I will then have another cylinder for backup. Now all I need to do is figure out how to make some bucket stops for my machine with the old style bobtach. Tazza sent some pics a while back, but it looks like he has the newer style bobtach, so if anyone has ideas that may help, please pass them on.
As far as i was aware, that bobtach was the old style.... Its just your arms didn't have the stops welded to them.... Good like with it all, you'll get it worked out.
 

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