Skid steer stalls out

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mustang2105

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When i firt get in machine i can use it for 2-3 hours. then it dies out. I let it rest for about an hour ans it will start and die again after ten minutes. I checked fuel solenoid ilooks like its being pulled in with igniton on . anyone have any ideas???
 

mustang2105

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fuel tank/cap not vented properly??
Ken
How is it supposed to be vented? Cap looks like it doesn't have vent on it. Also my fuel gauge doesn't work. Does anyone know where the sender located? It seems to be getting worse i drive it for about an hour then it stalls out. Sometimes if i just let it idle for about a minuted i can get a 1/2 hour out of it before it stalls again. Thank You,
 

skidsteer.ca

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How is it supposed to be vented? Cap looks like it doesn't have vent on it. Also my fuel gauge doesn't work. Does anyone know where the sender located? It seems to be getting worse i drive it for about an hour then it stalls out. Sometimes if i just let it idle for about a minuted i can get a 1/2 hour out of it before it stalls again. Thank You,
Run it until it begins to die out, shut off and remove fill cap, Can you hear a sucking sound indicating a vaccum in the fuel tank? What you describe is a classic venting symtom.
If there is no vaccum then you have lift pump, or fuel pickup or fuel filter problems
Ken
 

mustang2105

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Run it until it begins to die out, shut off and remove fill cap, Can you hear a sucking sound indicating a vaccum in the fuel tank? What you describe is a classic venting symtom.
If there is no vaccum then you have lift pump, or fuel pickup or fuel filter problems
Ken
I'm back and pissed. No sucking sound. The rear door fell off and i backed over it. Why the hell did they make something that should have been one piece two pieces and held together with 2 bullshit bolts. The welds broke off. THe taillights broke. Anyway I changed both the filters. There was some water in filter.I wonder if the water could be doing it? If it is why would it start back up ?It still does the same thing but now its new and improved. The top circuit breaker keeps popping and everything dies immediately. It stalled out and now either battery or starter is fried because the started won't turn fast enough to start engine. I jumped it with a car and it did nothing. Maybe engine is fluid locked? I felt the starter and it was hot even after sitting for a few hours. I've alway had problems with the starter. Like if i stall the engine i can't get it started right away starter will click. If i let it sit for 5-10 minutes it will start. Only thing i think of it is flooded in the cylinders when i stall it and it make it hard for engine to turn over. Does anyone else have that problem when it stalls? On top of everything the damn pump to lift the cab doesn't work. Did anyone ever change a battery? It looks like a pain in the ass. the starter looks even worse.
 

Tazza

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I'm back and pissed. No sucking sound. The rear door fell off and i backed over it. Why the hell did they make something that should have been one piece two pieces and held together with 2 bullshit bolts. The welds broke off. THe taillights broke. Anyway I changed both the filters. There was some water in filter.I wonder if the water could be doing it? If it is why would it start back up ?It still does the same thing but now its new and improved. The top circuit breaker keeps popping and everything dies immediately. It stalled out and now either battery or starter is fried because the started won't turn fast enough to start engine. I jumped it with a car and it did nothing. Maybe engine is fluid locked? I felt the starter and it was hot even after sitting for a few hours. I've alway had problems with the starter. Like if i stall the engine i can't get it started right away starter will click. If i let it sit for 5-10 minutes it will start. Only thing i think of it is flooded in the cylinders when i stall it and it make it hard for engine to turn over. Does anyone else have that problem when it stalls? On top of everything the damn pump to lift the cab doesn't work. Did anyone ever change a battery? It looks like a pain in the ass. the starter looks even worse.
If the engine still turns its not hydraulically locked. You simply can't spray enough fuel by trying to start it to fill the combustion chamber. The amount that it sprays every 2 revolutions is so tiny you would need to be cranking it for hours! Even then, the smoke is the diesel burning off.
It sounds like the starter may want a new set of brushes if it spins slowly. I would start with the starter then maybe look at the shut down solenoid. It sounds like it may have a problem with the “hold” coil. This would explain why it would start back up as it will energize the “pull” coil. This could explain the breaker problem. Try un-plugging the cable to the stop solenoid and see if the breaker pops again.
 

skidsteer.ca

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I'm back and pissed. No sucking sound. The rear door fell off and i backed over it. Why the hell did they make something that should have been one piece two pieces and held together with 2 bullshit bolts. The welds broke off. THe taillights broke. Anyway I changed both the filters. There was some water in filter.I wonder if the water could be doing it? If it is why would it start back up ?It still does the same thing but now its new and improved. The top circuit breaker keeps popping and everything dies immediately. It stalled out and now either battery or starter is fried because the started won't turn fast enough to start engine. I jumped it with a car and it did nothing. Maybe engine is fluid locked? I felt the starter and it was hot even after sitting for a few hours. I've alway had problems with the starter. Like if i stall the engine i can't get it started right away starter will click. If i let it sit for 5-10 minutes it will start. Only thing i think of it is flooded in the cylinders when i stall it and it make it hard for engine to turn over. Does anyone else have that problem when it stalls? On top of everything the damn pump to lift the cab doesn't work. Did anyone ever change a battery? It looks like a pain in the ass. the starter looks even worse.
Lol
Sounds like some of my days...
As one of the other members says “if it was done the easy way , it wasn't by me”
You either need to change your top circuit breaker or take a amp meter and see if the circuit is being over loaded. Often breakers get weak as they get old and won't carry their rated amps.
I doubt the engine is fluid locked, diesels only pump small quantity every revolution and don't “flood” like gas engines. Not that they can't hydrolock if rain or some other liquid gets above the piston.
If you can get a the crankshaft, most engines have a bolt holding the front balancer on and you can put a socket on this to determine the engine is still turnable.
Sounds like your duo for a starter rebuild to me. If you boosted it and it did'nt help. either the wires doing to the starter are not carrying the amperage or the starter is worn and is demanding excessive amps. You can hook you volt meter to the starter and crank the engine, volts should stay above 10 even if you not boasting, provided the battery is good.
If boosting they should stay higher yet.
Since your starter was acting up b4, start there and with a new top circuit breaker, or replace the breaker with a fuse of the same amps, if the fuse blow then the circuit is demanding to much current and needs to be repaired.
Ken
 

mustang2105

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Lol
Sounds like some of my days...
As one of the other members says “if it was done the easy way , it wasn't by me”
You either need to change your top circuit breaker or take a amp meter and see if the circuit is being over loaded. Often breakers get weak as they get old and won't carry their rated amps.
I doubt the engine is fluid locked, diesels only pump small quantity every revolution and don't “flood” like gas engines. Not that they can't hydrolock if rain or some other liquid gets above the piston.
If you can get a the crankshaft, most engines have a bolt holding the front balancer on and you can put a socket on this to determine the engine is still turnable.
Sounds like your duo for a starter rebuild to me. If you boosted it and it did'nt help. either the wires doing to the starter are not carrying the amperage or the starter is worn and is demanding excessive amps. You can hook you volt meter to the starter and crank the engine, volts should stay above 10 even if you not boasting, provided the battery is good.
If boosting they should stay higher yet.
Since your starter was acting up b4, start there and with a new top circuit breaker, or replace the breaker with a fuse of the same amps, if the fuse blow then the circuit is demanding to much current and needs to be repaired.
Ken
I'm going to try to check the battery first. I'm having trouble figuring out how to get at it. Book says it's a 4 bolt plate but the plate doesn't budge. May have to take cab apart. I''ll post my findings. So what do you think about water in the fuel? What would that do? Thank You
 

Tazza

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I'm going to try to check the battery first. I'm having trouble figuring out how to get at it. Book says it's a 4 bolt plate but the plate doesn't budge. May have to take cab apart. I''ll post my findings. So what do you think about water in the fuel? What would that do? Thank You
Water in the fuel would make the machine run erratically but it won't stall then fire straight up. I'd still look at the shut down solenoid, that or use like a rubber band to hold it in the run position and see if it stalls again. Once you get the machine to start that is.
If there was only a small amount of water in the filter don't worry, thats why the bowl is there, its to catch any water in the fuel system.
I'd check the battery first too, start with the simple things first.
 

mustang2105

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Water in the fuel would make the machine run erratically but it won't stall then fire straight up. I'd still look at the shut down solenoid, that or use like a rubber band to hold it in the run position and see if it stalls again. Once you get the machine to start that is.
If there was only a small amount of water in the filter don't worry, thats why the bowl is there, its to catch any water in the fuel system.
I'd check the battery first too, start with the simple things first.
Well i thought i killed the machine the other day with the starter and all. Went there today and it fired right up! I got about 3 hours out of it before it started doing the same thing. Popping that 20 amp breaker. I took the panel apart and switched the breakers but still popped on another breaker so i guess it ain't the breaker. I noticed the breaker pops at the same time the fuel solenoid pulls. So i disconnected it and breaker stayed in. HMmm maybe it that fuel solenoid. It was hot as heck when i touched it. I tried putting a wet rag on it too cool it down. Breaker stayed in and machine starter for about a minute. I tried starting it again and saw smoke coming out the engine compartment. Uh oh i jumped out to make sure i wasn't having a melt down. Didn't see any wires burnt but now the igniton key won't turn over the engine. I found the starter relay and tried to touch the white terminal with 12volts but nothing happened. So i took the 16 gauge wire and went dirrecty to starter solenoid. The damn wire started to burn but i'm thinking maybe it did it because i was touhing it by hand and it carries high amps. I came back five minutes later and tried it again. Starter turned engine over. Tried it again wire started burning again....... Anyway i looked at the electrical schmatics in the parts book. Seems this machine has 2 starter relays which i think is stupid. It has one going from the ingition key to relay in left side indicator panel. then it goes from relay output to another relay in the engine compartment. I think the two starter relays i think may have to do with safety system. One thing is find extremely distubing is that the wire on the starter solenoid is 16 gauge or less! A gasoline engine on a car carries at least a 10 gauge! So i'm thinking that hurts the starter and makes for the tough cranking and clicking. Maybe even overheating. I tried jumping battery to starter motor directly and that was a bad idea starter motor was turning without engaging flywheel and when it took the power off it was still turning by itself. Is that supposed to happen? Well my next step is to get a remote starter switch to see if i can get the starter to work. If not i guess i'll be taking starter out. Man that looks like a bitch they didn't leave much room for access and i can get the arms up if engine won't start. Either way i plan to bypass all those starter relays and install a momentary push button switch directly from starter to battery with a fuse by battery with 10 gauge wire. Does anyone think this is a bad idea? That eliminates the top man and middle man. I think the stalling may have something to do with that fuel solenoid. Why must they put electrical stuff on a diesel engine. I'm going to have to find out how to rig the injector pump lever in the on position and see if it still dies out since i changed the filters and they look clear and the problem seems intermittent. I checked the batterry and alternator. Battery is good. Alternator wasn't putting out so i tapped it with a hammer and it starter working. Maybe be the bad connection on the trigger wire but it was fine after that. So since the starter turned over without hesitation next day does that mean it overheated? Because it was turning over but slow liek the battery was shot. But next day worked like a charm until the breaker started popping and machine shut off. The it started with the slow routine again. Anyway let me run a 10 gauge to starter and see what happens. All input is greatly appreciated. Thank You Everyone
 

Tazza

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Well i thought i killed the machine the other day with the starter and all. Went there today and it fired right up! I got about 3 hours out of it before it started doing the same thing. Popping that 20 amp breaker. I took the panel apart and switched the breakers but still popped on another breaker so i guess it ain't the breaker. I noticed the breaker pops at the same time the fuel solenoid pulls. So i disconnected it and breaker stayed in. HMmm maybe it that fuel solenoid. It was hot as heck when i touched it. I tried putting a wet rag on it too cool it down. Breaker stayed in and machine starter for about a minute. I tried starting it again and saw smoke coming out the engine compartment. Uh oh i jumped out to make sure i wasn't having a melt down. Didn't see any wires burnt but now the igniton key won't turn over the engine. I found the starter relay and tried to touch the white terminal with 12volts but nothing happened. So i took the 16 gauge wire and went dirrecty to starter solenoid. The damn wire started to burn but i'm thinking maybe it did it because i was touhing it by hand and it carries high amps. I came back five minutes later and tried it again. Starter turned engine over. Tried it again wire started burning again....... Anyway i looked at the electrical schmatics in the parts book. Seems this machine has 2 starter relays which i think is stupid. It has one going from the ingition key to relay in left side indicator panel. then it goes from relay output to another relay in the engine compartment. I think the two starter relays i think may have to do with safety system. One thing is find extremely distubing is that the wire on the starter solenoid is 16 gauge or less! A gasoline engine on a car carries at least a 10 gauge! So i'm thinking that hurts the starter and makes for the tough cranking and clicking. Maybe even overheating. I tried jumping battery to starter motor directly and that was a bad idea starter motor was turning without engaging flywheel and when it took the power off it was still turning by itself. Is that supposed to happen? Well my next step is to get a remote starter switch to see if i can get the starter to work. If not i guess i'll be taking starter out. Man that looks like a bitch they didn't leave much room for access and i can get the arms up if engine won't start. Either way i plan to bypass all those starter relays and install a momentary push button switch directly from starter to battery with a fuse by battery with 10 gauge wire. Does anyone think this is a bad idea? That eliminates the top man and middle man. I think the stalling may have something to do with that fuel solenoid. Why must they put electrical stuff on a diesel engine. I'm going to have to find out how to rig the injector pump lever in the on position and see if it still dies out since i changed the filters and they look clear and the problem seems intermittent. I checked the batterry and alternator. Battery is good. Alternator wasn't putting out so i tapped it with a hammer and it starter working. Maybe be the bad connection on the trigger wire but it was fine after that. So since the starter turned over without hesitation next day does that mean it overheated? Because it was turning over but slow liek the battery was shot. But next day worked like a charm until the breaker started popping and machine shut off. The it started with the slow routine again. Anyway let me run a 10 gauge to starter and see what happens. All input is greatly appreciated. Thank You Everyone
The schematic you have should show 2 relays, bout should be in the engine bay. One from the key then one to the starter. The small cylinder on the starter is still classed as a relay but it draws a few amps thats why they put a relay before it. It will reduce the load on the key switch.
When you hooked power direct to the starter you joined it directally to the starter motor? as in the large round motor NOT the smaller cylinder (relay) if you did it that way, it would not engage as power is needed to the small cylinder (relay) to push the gear out from the motor, without power it will not engage.
As for cable, i'd use the largest cable i could find. The stuff i'm running is about as thick as a finger, it doesn't get warm so its delivering full amps to the starter.
If any of that isn't clear just let me know and i'll take piccies and explain.
Either way, i'd pull the starter and check the brushes out and replace the bearings if they feel off.
As for the shut down solenoid, can you use string to hold the solenoid in place? just disconnect the cable and tie it with string, the fuse won't pop and the solenoid won't get hot.
 

mustang2105

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The schematic you have should show 2 relays, bout should be in the engine bay. One from the key then one to the starter. The small cylinder on the starter is still classed as a relay but it draws a few amps thats why they put a relay before it. It will reduce the load on the key switch.
When you hooked power direct to the starter you joined it directally to the starter motor? as in the large round motor NOT the smaller cylinder (relay) if you did it that way, it would not engage as power is needed to the small cylinder (relay) to push the gear out from the motor, without power it will not engage.
As for cable, i'd use the largest cable i could find. The stuff i'm running is about as thick as a finger, it doesn't get warm so its delivering full amps to the starter.
If any of that isn't clear just let me know and i'll take piccies and explain.
Either way, i'd pull the starter and check the brushes out and replace the bearings if they feel off.
As for the shut down solenoid, can you use string to hold the solenoid in place? just disconnect the cable and tie it with string, the fuse won't pop and the solenoid won't get hot.
Well i got to playing with it the other day. I was going to take the starter cables off to remove starter when i noticed the nut was loose. ON further inspection it wasn't the nut it was the lug. Tightened that and it started working with ignition key again intermittently. THe solenoid terminal on starter seems loose also but it's connected internally. Still seems like a weak start. But at least it starts. WHile i had it running i decided to do some digging but the same thing happen the circuit breaker pops after an hour and i pretty sure it the solenoid doing that. Went back he next day and after 10 minutes engine died out. I called up GEHL and they said it sounds like the fueling in the tank is clogged. So I have to clean that line out and disconnect that fuel solenoid and see what happens On another note i noticed oil leak by the left side rear wheel must be hydraulic fluid or hydrostatic fluid. It's not coming from outside coming from inside. When i was looking at little puddle i notice metal glistening. I stuck my finger in it and there is fine metal barely visible. Is this normal is is something else about to break? Thanks.
 

mustang2105

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Well i got to playing with it the other day. I was going to take the starter cables off to remove starter when i noticed the nut was loose. ON further inspection it wasn't the nut it was the lug. Tightened that and it started working with ignition key again intermittently. THe solenoid terminal on starter seems loose also but it's connected internally. Still seems like a weak start. But at least it starts. WHile i had it running i decided to do some digging but the same thing happen the circuit breaker pops after an hour and i pretty sure it the solenoid doing that. Went back he next day and after 10 minutes engine died out. I called up GEHL and they said it sounds like the fueling in the tank is clogged. So I have to clean that line out and disconnect that fuel solenoid and see what happens On another note i noticed oil leak by the left side rear wheel must be hydraulic fluid or hydrostatic fluid. It's not coming from outside coming from inside. When i was looking at little puddle i notice metal glistening. I stuck my finger in it and there is fine metal barely visible. Is this normal is is something else about to break? Thanks.
Oh, one more question. Where does the hydrostatic system get it's oil from? Does it share the same hydraulic system? The book shows where the filter is but doesn't show where to fill it up. TIA
 

mustang2105

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Oh, one more question. Where does the hydrostatic system get it's oil from? Does it share the same hydraulic system? The book shows where the filter is but doesn't show where to fill it up. TIA
I guess i'm talking to myself here. The oil leak is leaking near bottom chaincase drain i didn't think to check around the drain bolt. Is it normal to have fine glitter in chain case. I guess i can drain some oil out and see if that where the oil is coming from. I hope it doesn't share oil with hydraulic system.
 

Tazza

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I guess i'm talking to myself here. The oil leak is leaking near bottom chaincase drain i didn't think to check around the drain bolt. Is it normal to have fine glitter in chain case. I guess i can drain some oil out and see if that where the oil is coming from. I hope it doesn't share oil with hydraulic system.
Its totally normal for metal particles to be present in the chain case. There are no filters in there to trap them from when the chains and sprockets wear. This is why the oil must be changed every few thousand hours. As long as the particles are small its normal, but if you have large pieces you have a problem.
 

mustang2105

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Its totally normal for metal particles to be present in the chain case. There are no filters in there to trap them from when the chains and sprockets wear. This is why the oil must be changed every few thousand hours. As long as the particles are small its normal, but if you have large pieces you have a problem.
Hell Tazaa, Thanks for the reply. Well i got fed up and pulled the fuel pick up outof the tank. Reason i didn't do it is because there is like 8 inches of dirt stuck in the machine. I guess i have to remove the bottom plates and pressure wash in there. Well i first checked the screen in the lift pump and it was clean. I pulled out the hose pick up going into the tank and 5 gallons of diesel starter flowing out like a gusher. I guess the fuel level was hire than pick up. The pickup tube had a pebble stuck in it. I remove the pebble with a screw driver and shoved the thing back in the hole. I probably shoved dirt in there since it was jammed in pick up hole. Well machine started up but i didn't drive it because if it catches fire the machine is toast. I have to get those plates off and clean all that dirt out. Hopefully that was the problem. As for the chain case. The axle cover is leaking. Is there a gasket for that and the chaincase? Also two fitting won't take grease. The fittings are clogged its the passages. Any solution for that? A.
 

Tazza

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Hell Tazaa, Thanks for the reply. Well i got fed up and pulled the fuel pick up outof the tank. Reason i didn't do it is because there is like 8 inches of dirt stuck in the machine. I guess i have to remove the bottom plates and pressure wash in there. Well i first checked the screen in the lift pump and it was clean. I pulled out the hose pick up going into the tank and 5 gallons of diesel starter flowing out like a gusher. I guess the fuel level was hire than pick up. The pickup tube had a pebble stuck in it. I remove the pebble with a screw driver and shoved the thing back in the hole. I probably shoved dirt in there since it was jammed in pick up hole. Well machine started up but i didn't drive it because if it catches fire the machine is toast. I have to get those plates off and clean all that dirt out. Hopefully that was the problem. As for the chain case. The axle cover is leaking. Is there a gasket for that and the chaincase? Also two fitting won't take grease. The fittings are clogged its the passages. Any solution for that? A.
If you did get any dirt in the tank don't be worried, thats why you have a filter after the pick up tube it will catch any crud that is in the tank.
It does take a fair amount of heat to get diesel to burn but better be safe.
The chain case covers do run gaskets, you can sometimes remove them and use silicone to seal them up.
I'm not sure what grease points you are having problems with but if they aren't taking grease you can replace them and hopefully its just the grease nipples that were clogged. Other members here have been eying off a device from northern tools that you hook up to a stuck grease point after trying a new nipple and you strike it with a hammer. It creates a higher pressure than a hand pump to try and get the grease moving. Quite clever actually, i may even try building one some day. Every grease nipple i have had problems with was solved when i replaced it, i have never had grease so hard it couldn't be moved.
 

Idoitall

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Hell Tazaa, Thanks for the reply. Well i got fed up and pulled the fuel pick up outof the tank. Reason i didn't do it is because there is like 8 inches of dirt stuck in the machine. I guess i have to remove the bottom plates and pressure wash in there. Well i first checked the screen in the lift pump and it was clean. I pulled out the hose pick up going into the tank and 5 gallons of diesel starter flowing out like a gusher. I guess the fuel level was hire than pick up. The pickup tube had a pebble stuck in it. I remove the pebble with a screw driver and shoved the thing back in the hole. I probably shoved dirt in there since it was jammed in pick up hole. Well machine started up but i didn't drive it because if it catches fire the machine is toast. I have to get those plates off and clean all that dirt out. Hopefully that was the problem. As for the chain case. The axle cover is leaking. Is there a gasket for that and the chaincase? Also two fitting won't take grease. The fittings are clogged its the passages. Any solution for that? A.
Most US made equipment has long had replaceable grease fittings. Either 1/8" or 1/4" pipe thread is common and easily removed, although some later stuff could be metric (*@%$*^#). Some cheap stuff has fittings that drive in, but not likely on skids.

Individually, they are not too pricey at the local auto parts stores, but you may not find much at the box stores. Look for a good local parts store or a NAPA store. You can buy a small assortment kit for about $10 with probably 50 or more fittings. Look for these at places like Harbor Freight or others with a lot of import tools. Some part stores may also carry them. They will be in a clear plastic box, say 4" x 8" x 1", and contains straight, 45 and 90 degree offset fittings.
 

mustang2105

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Most US made equipment has long had replaceable grease fittings. Either 1/8" or 1/4" pipe thread is common and easily removed, although some later stuff could be metric (*@%$*^#). Some cheap stuff has fittings that drive in, but not likely on skids.

Individually, they are not too pricey at the local auto parts stores, but you may not find much at the box stores. Look for a good local parts store or a NAPA store. You can buy a small assortment kit for about $10 with probably 50 or more fittings. Look for these at places like Harbor Freight or others with a lot of import tools. Some part stores may also carry them. They will be in a clear plastic box, say 4" x 8" x 1", and contains straight, 45 and 90 degree offset fittings.
It's not the grease fittings because i switched it out with one that worked. It for the rear lift arm. The fitting is on the top near the engine door and goes all the way to the bottom where the joint connects to the frame> i'd say it's about 5 feet away from the nipple. I was always wondering how it got grease. I found 2 nipples i never knew were there. ON another note i have a JCB backhoe. JCB's have British threads. I wonder if i'll be able to use fitting from auto parts store or i have to get them from JCB since a few are broken or missing. Been having trouble with that also. Metering valve seems to be sticking. Hopefully i can get that going. Not having much luck this year at all.
 
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