"S" Series machine went for a swim

[Tazza]

Ok, i'm sure i'm getting myself into a can of worms, but just how much damage can be caused to a late model S series machine if it went for a swim? It was not running at the time though. I think its an S130 or S150, not too sure. All i keep coming back to is electrolisis, i know how badly water and electricity mix with electronics/electrics.
Are all the control boxes fully sealed? i don't thisk it has SJC, so thats a plus. But still all the other electronics do worry me. Its also turbo, so it may have water in there, not too much of a problem, all that can be pulled down before starting.
Any thoughts?

 

[hvyduty]

I believe the electric's will be fine as long as it was fresh water. The computer is a sealed unit and all plugs should be sealed as well as being packed with electrical grease/goo.They usualy cop a good wet down with a pressure washer regually and survive. Also how ,how deep and how long did it swim for.

 

[Tazza]

I believe the electric's will be fine as long as it was fresh water. The computer is a sealed unit and all plugs should be sealed as well as being packed with electrical grease/goo.They usualy cop a good wet down with a pressure washer regually and survive. Also how ,how deep and how long did it swim for.

I have no idea how long it was under water for, or what kind. Salt water is far worse than fresh, but i really have no way of knowing. Its not mine, thats why i have so few details on it. I just don't want to buy something that could end up costimg me more than its worth to get it fixed up. Being a digital display hours are un-known.
I figure if i can get it at a reasonable price it may be worth the risk. My main worry was the computer but as you point out its a sealed unit i should be ok. Pissible harness problems at the connectors but that can be fixed.
Any other things that may be an issue? I figure, depending on how deep it got there may be water in the oil but as it hasn't been run there won't be any oxygen to allow the water to create rust (in theory) The display looked ok too, thats why i don't know how deep it got.

 

[bobcat_ron]

I have no idea how long it was under water for, or what kind. Salt water is far worse than fresh, but i really have no way of knowing. Its not mine, thats why i have so few details on it. I just don't want to buy something that could end up costimg me more than its worth to get it fixed up. Being a digital display hours are un-known.
I figure if i can get it at a reasonable price it may be worth the risk. My main worry was the computer but as you point out its a sealed unit i should be ok. Pissible harness problems at the connectors but that can be fixed.
Any other things that may be an issue? I figure, depending on how deep it got there may be water in the oil but as it hasn't been run there won't be any oxygen to allow the water to create rust (in theory) The display looked ok too, thats why i don't know how deep it got.

Oh wow, a Bobcat getting a head start on being a boat anchor, that's one anxious Bobcat!

 

[thetool]

Oh wow, a Bobcat getting a head start on being a boat anchor, that's one anxious Bobcat!

That was constructive and informative, Ron. Thanks for your input. Always a pleasure. It's posters like you that make this such a great, informative resource for everyone. Any person looking for information would be helped by all your information, ideas and opinions.
If you were to be banned from this board like you were from the "other" board, it would hurt the membership here like it has "over there".
Keep up the good work.

 

[thetool]

That was constructive and informative, Ron. Thanks for your input. Always a pleasure. It's posters like you that make this such a great, informative resource for everyone. Any person looking for information would be helped by all your information, ideas and opinions.
If you were to be banned from this board like you were from the "other" board, it would hurt the membership here like it has "over there".
Keep up the good work.

Tazza-I'd say time is your enemy right now. It depends on how long and how deep, and how long it sits before you can drain and refill and get it running to get some heat going to boil off the rest of the water.
If it was running when it went under and sucked water, it could have bent a rod-that's about all I can think of that I didn't hear you mention. And your chaincase may also be full of water-and the chaincase is kinda susceptible to rusting, 'cause it's all bare metal with lots of air inside.

 

[Tazza]

Tazza-I'd say time is your enemy right now. It depends on how long and how deep, and how long it sits before you can drain and refill and get it running to get some heat going to boil off the rest of the water.
If it was running when it went under and sucked water, it could have bent a rod-that's about all I can think of that I didn't hear you mention. And your chaincase may also be full of water-and the chaincase is kinda susceptible to rusting, 'cause it's all bare metal with lots of air inside.

Exactly.
It has been above water for a few months, i was told it was not running when it went for a swim, not sure how it got wet in the first place..... I may just put a silly price on it and see how i go. At the very least i will have a good frame, bucket, enclosed cab, radiator etc. New a bucket is 3-4k here (4 in 1)
You are spot on about the chaincase, my 751 was like that. It took a blast with the sand blaster to clean it out and a wire brush on the chains and sprockets, thankfully only light surface rust on them.
I'm just trying to think worst case and working out figures.

 

[Fishfiles]

Exactly.
It has been above water for a few months, i was told it was not running when it went for a swim, not sure how it got wet in the first place..... I may just put a silly price on it and see how i go. At the very least i will have a good frame, bucket, enclosed cab, radiator etc. New a bucket is 3-4k here (4 in 1)
You are spot on about the chaincase, my 751 was like that. It took a blast with the sand blaster to clean it out and a wire brush on the chains and sprockets, thankfully only light surface rust on them.
I'm just trying to think worst case and working out figures.

This is something I could write a book on as hurricane Katrina flooded so many machine here in New Orleans , I found that no two incidents were exactly the same , usually the electrical system fries , it corrides off the wires at the starter , alternator , back of the fuse box and the battery cable , you can try and repair the wiring harness but a new wiring harness is the way to go , how fast the flow of current stops determines how much damage was done , some alternators and starters actually survived and worked but failed not long after from bearing failure , all the relays and the run kill solinoid needed replacement , but the controller and stem coils survived , the display and controll panel on the dash takes on water , as far as the hydraulic system I never seen any problems , the oil usually floats out the tank and is replaced with water so the system needs to be flushed and after you get it running reflushed a couple more times , the engine is no doubt frozen up by now as the water that got into cylinders evaporated and rusted the pistons to the wall , time is of the essence with water , the quicker you get it going the better off you are , the turbo is probally frozen up at the bearings and the valves are probally stuck in a couple of cylinders ,on a good note the bearings of the crank and connecting rods are probally still ok as the water is probally still in the oil pan with the oil floating on top , no air got to the bearings so they will probally still be good , a motor rebuild is probally in it's future , the fuel system such as the injector pump and injectors are ok as they are sealed ,the fuel tank will need to be drained , as mentioned the chain case is a problem as the water is also in the axle tubes and impossible to get out with out total disassembling and I seen quite a few axle bearings fail afterwards , the drive belt usually rustes to the pulley and will need to be replaced , to do it right I'd guess if you did the work yourself you would be around $5,000 of parts and 80 hours of work , give or take , after the storm the dealer was getting about $10,000 to redo a machine , like I mentioned no two incidents are exactly the same , I think I'd bid low ad if I got it use it for parts

 

[bobcat_ron]

This is something I could write a book on as hurricane Katrina flooded so many machine here in New Orleans , I found that no two incidents were exactly the same , usually the electrical system fries , it corrides off the wires at the starter , alternator , back of the fuse box and the battery cable , you can try and repair the wiring harness but a new wiring harness is the way to go , how fast the flow of current stops determines how much damage was done , some alternators and starters actually survived and worked but failed not long after from bearing failure , all the relays and the run kill solinoid needed replacement , but the controller and stem coils survived , the display and controll panel on the dash takes on water , as far as the hydraulic system I never seen any problems , the oil usually floats out the tank and is replaced with water so the system needs to be flushed and after you get it running reflushed a couple more times , the engine is no doubt frozen up by now as the water that got into cylinders evaporated and rusted the pistons to the wall , time is of the essence with water , the quicker you get it going the better off you are , the turbo is probally frozen up at the bearings and the valves are probally stuck in a couple of cylinders ,on a good note the bearings of the crank and connecting rods are probally still ok as the water is probally still in the oil pan with the oil floating on top , no air got to the bearings so they will probally still be good , a motor rebuild is probally in it's future , the fuel system such as the injector pump and injectors are ok as they are sealed ,the fuel tank will need to be drained , as mentioned the chain case is a problem as the water is also in the axle tubes and impossible to get out with out total disassembling and I seen quite a few axle bearings fail afterwards , the drive belt usually rustes to the pulley and will need to be replaced , to do it right I'd guess if you did the work yourself you would be around $5,000 of parts and 80 hours of work , give or take , after the storm the dealer was getting about $10,000 to redo a machine , like I mentioned no two incidents are exactly the same , I think I'd bid low ad if I got it use it for parts

"That was constructive and informative, Ron. Thanks for your input. Always a pleasure. It's posters like you that make this such a great, informative resource for everyone. Any person looking for information would be helped by all your information, ideas and opinions.
If you were to be banned from this board like you were from the "other" board, it would hurt the membership here like it has "over there".
Keep up the good work. "

I just had to get that out, I felt so much better after typing that.
My only concern would be the chain cases, is there a breather on the case that could suck water back in?

 

[Tazza]

"That was constructive and informative, Ron. Thanks for your input. Always a pleasure. It's posters like you that make this such a great, informative resource for everyone. Any person looking for information would be helped by all your information, ideas and opinions.
If you were to be banned from this board like you were from the "other" board, it would hurt the membership here like it has "over there".
Keep up the good work. "

I just had to get that out, I felt so much better after typing that.
My only concern would be the chain cases, is there a breather on the case that could suck water back in?

All valid points... And with the USD value vs the AUD getting higher it means parts cost even more.... I would have to agree, I'll have to bid pretty low and see how i go. Hopefully it was fresh water so the connectors may not have corroded off, but it all depends on how close the connections were with power.
Ron - yes the chain case does have a breather hole so no doubt it has water in there too.
Time to give it some thought.

 

[Fishfiles]

All valid points... And with the USD value vs the AUD getting higher it means parts cost even more.... I would have to agree, I'll have to bid pretty low and see how i go. Hopefully it was fresh water so the connectors may not have corroded off, but it all depends on how close the connections were with power.
Ron - yes the chain case does have a breather hole so no doubt it has water in there too.
Time to give it some thought.

You know I am not too sure that fresh water or salt makes alot of difference as far as corroding the wires off the electrical accessories as I had a 6 " diesel pump this year that went for a swim as you put it this year , it was in a pit were they were digging clay for the leeve projects and it rained really bad for a couple of days and the pump went under fresh water , the damages to the wiring was all the same , ate the connections off at the starter , alterntor , key sswtch and battery terminals , you know I learned something from the storm , if thee is a chance of flooding and the machine can not be moved then disconnect the battery as I seen a few boats with battery off switches that were turned off and flooded that had no damages to the wiring , it's the electrical flow that causes the damage , I'd think as far as rusting goes the salt water would be much worst -----------the chain case has a terrible seal on it and will take on water from all around the three plates that cover the case more than the breather I would think ---------I seen quite a few people who drained , flushed and refilled th case only to have the bearings fail down the road , I think from water that fills in the axle tubes , seems the only way to do it right would be to dissassemble the 4 axles

 

[Tazza]

You know I am not too sure that fresh water or salt makes alot of difference as far as corroding the wires off the electrical accessories as I had a 6 " diesel pump this year that went for a swim as you put it this year , it was in a pit were they were digging clay for the leeve projects and it rained really bad for a couple of days and the pump went under fresh water , the damages to the wiring was all the same , ate the connections off at the starter , alterntor , key sswtch and battery terminals , you know I learned something from the storm , if thee is a chance of flooding and the machine can not be moved then disconnect the battery as I seen a few boats with battery off switches that were turned off and flooded that had no damages to the wiring , it's the electrical flow that causes the damage , I'd think as far as rusting goes the salt water would be much worst -----------the chain case has a terrible seal on it and will take on water from all around the three plates that cover the case more than the breather I would think ---------I seen quite a few people who drained , flushed and refilled th case only to have the bearings fail down the road , I think from water that fills in the axle tubes , seems the only way to do it right would be to dissassemble the 4 axles

True, salt water conducts electricity better so if the wires are further away they will still be eaten away, but if they are cloes enough even fresh water will cause problems. Thats a good idea with removing a battery terminal, i can see how it could prevent issues!
If i did get it, i'd be pulling the thing to bits anyway, i don't want to do the job twice. For about $300 worth of bearings its something you would just do.

 

[sterlclan]

True, salt water conducts electricity better so if the wires are further away they will still be eaten away, but if they are cloes enough even fresh water will cause problems. Thats a good idea with removing a battery terminal, i can see how it could prevent issues!
If i did get it, i'd be pulling the thing to bits anyway, i don't want to do the job twice. For about $300 worth of bearings its something you would just do.

plan on a harness......Ive fixed swimming cars and that stuff is the first to go....way simpler to just replace it.but if you got time and feel froggy make your own.....

 

[Tazza]

plan on a harness......Ive fixed swimming cars and that stuff is the first to go....way simpler to just replace it.but if you got time and feel froggy make your own.....

Well i should know later today, the auction is currently under way. Hopefully i will get a phone call this time!

 

[Tazza]

Well i should know later today, the auction is currently under way. Hopefully i will get a phone call this time!

It was not to be, it got to 12k and i didn't go further, not sure what it ended up selling for as it was a phone bid. It would have been nice if it was cheap enough, but i didn't want to spend a small fortune on it and find out its in real bad shape.
Thanks for all the advise, I'm sure another one will pop up some time but I'm not in any bug rush. I have enough work on the go as it is.