Questions about snow blowers?

[Ex1900Driver]

Hello everyone... First of all I am pretty new to this so I apologize if these sound like basic questions!! I am looking to buy a bobcat with a snow blower attachment. You folks that own snow blowers... how effectively do they work?? I will be looking at the higher horse power models that have the high flow hydraulic pumps and to be honest I just don't know how well they deal with large amounts of snow. My wife and I will be moving to the mountains above Denver and I want a good snow removal platform that will be able to cope with LOTS of snow. Other people say just to buy a tractor and a PTO driven snow blower but I prefer the smaller size of a skid steer. Is there such a thing as an even higher flow rate hydraulic pump for the bobcats that you can buy aftermarket or do the high flow OEM pumps handle the snow well? So the question is, What do you think??

 

[TriHonu]

I have a standard flow (15gpm) 72" wide blower made by HGP. I bought it used and it works well for the type of snow we get here in Southern Minnesota.
You will need to evaluate how much snow you get, is it typically dry or wet, how fast does the snow come down and how far/high do you need to throw it to keep it out of the way for the whole season.
You need to realize that the auger is designed to break up the snow and move it to the fan. The larger the fan the more horse power you need to turn it under load. The faster you can turn it, the higher the velocity at the outside edge and theoretically the farther it can throw. Realize all blowers are designed to run at an optimum fan RPM. A high flow blower has a larger displacement motor that is designed to spin the fan at the same optimum RPM when attached to a loader with high flow hydraulics. The difference is the large displacement motor will generate a lot more torque and will not bog down as much under load.
The design of the spout and the throat where it attaches to the top of the fan housing is also critical. As the snow gets wetter, any protrusions will start to catch snow and narrow the throat leading to plugging.
These last few years, we have been getting our deeper snow-falls that have been wet. My throw distance with wet snow is around 15 feet and I have only plugged it 3 times. I keep the rust off the throat and spray it with WD40 to keep the snow from sticking in the throat and chute. Keep the nylon sheet in the chute clean and in good condition. If it cracks or the dirt in the snow wears a hole in it, replace it. Any edges/roughness will slow down the snow. If the blower is in a heated area and it is below freezing outside, pull the unit outside and let the blower get below freezing. If you immediately start blowing, the snow will melt and then freeze on the auger/fan/throat/chute and will decrease the performance of the blower until you scrape it off.

Light dry snow is no problem for any blower. Wet snow will significantly decrease the performance of the blower. When it is wet, I'll go out and blow as soon as it gets 6" deep. If it is going to snow for a couple of days, it is much easier/faster to blow multiple times than to try to blow 18" in one pass. If you are in an area that gets a lot of snow in a short period of time, you may have to have a high flow attachment and enough horse power to run it. You may also need a blower with a larger diameter auger that can handle more depth in one pass. It is tough going if you have to raise the blower to get the top layer while the loader spins the tires on the loose snow on the bottom.
The only thing I don't like about my blower is the design of the chute. It is designed to throw away more than up. When I get next to my fence, I have to tip the blower back and drive straight at the fence to get it over the fence.
I have both a blower and snow plow. The plow is much faster than the blower. However I have to push it up in piles that are there late into the spring. The blower takes longer but the snow is ground up and spread more evenly over a wider area. In the spring I don't have to deal with the the snow piles. I use both depending on the depth and type of snow.

 

[skidsteer.ca]

Hydraulic flow and pressure determine how much of your engines hp gets to the blower. The more of either pressure (psi) or flow (gpm. gallons per minute) up your hydraulic horse power.
My std flow 773 puts out 16.9 gpm at 3000 psi, which equates to roughly 27 hp to the blower. It will throw dry snow up to 30' wet dnow 20'
The high flow blowers we carry have cast distances up to 40'
Some of the larger loaders put out between 25 and 30 gpm (and up) on high flow, some also have more pressure, that will give you roughly 50 to 60 hp to the blower.
The local Bobcat dealer here say you only need high flow to snow blow in commercial appilications. I would venture that if you buy a high flow skidsteer, there won't be any problems dealing with the snow. Even a good 50 hp and larger standard flow loader with upper teens + for flow and 2800 to 3300 psi pumps will have as much hp as a 40 hp tractor, and will be way nicer to operate for the following.
You drive forward, not backwards.
You can cut drifts up to 10 ft in the air.
You won't have to ride the clutch and shift gears up or down.
You can turn on a dime.
Any advantage a tractor has in hp will be offset by these features.

How long is you drive?
What model(s) of loaders are you considering?
If I can quote you on a blower to match the loader of you choice, I'd be happy to do so
[email protected]
http://www.skidsteer.ca/28skidsteersnowblower.pdf

 

[Ex1900Driver]

Hydraulic flow and pressure determine how much of your engines hp gets to the blower. The more of either pressure (psi) or flow (gpm. gallons per minute) up your hydraulic horse power.
My std flow 773 puts out 16.9 gpm at 3000 psi, which equates to roughly 27 hp to the blower. It will throw dry snow up to 30' wet dnow 20'
The high flow blowers we carry have cast distances up to 40'
Some of the larger loaders put out between 25 and 30 gpm (and up) on high flow, some also have more pressure, that will give you roughly 50 to 60 hp to the blower.
The local Bobcat dealer here say you only need high flow to snow blow in commercial appilications. I would venture that if you buy a high flow skidsteer, there won't be any problems dealing with the snow. Even a good 50 hp and larger standard flow loader with upper teens + for flow and 2800 to 3300 psi pumps will have as much hp as a 40 hp tractor, and will be way nicer to operate for the following.
You drive forward, not backwards.
You can cut drifts up to 10 ft in the air.
You won't have to ride the clutch and shift gears up or down.
You can turn on a dime.
Any advantage a tractor has in hp will be offset by these features.

How long is you drive?
What model(s) of loaders are you considering?
If I can quote you on a blower to match the loader of you choice, I'd be happy to do so
[email protected]
http://www.skidsteer.ca/28skidsteersnowblower.pdf

I appreciate everyone's input. Sorry it took a couple of days to get back here to follow up. My job takes me away from home multiple days at a time. OK... Our new drive is probably going to be 500 feet on a private road and gravel / dirt up in the mountains outside of Denver... 7500ft high. I will admit to investigating my options at this point seeing as though our house isn't even built yet. Hopefully we can start putting something up after this winter. The land it is going to be on is about 40 acres of steep hills and forest, valley and flatter land on the other end of the property. As for Models, I am still looking into all the different options but as of this moment, Bobcat and Gehl are sticking out. Thanks again for the input so far...

 

[Bisonhunter]

I appreciate everyone's input. Sorry it took a couple of days to get back here to follow up. My job takes me away from home multiple days at a time. OK... Our new drive is probably going to be 500 feet on a private road and gravel / dirt up in the mountains outside of Denver... 7500ft high. I will admit to investigating my options at this point seeing as though our house isn't even built yet. Hopefully we can start putting something up after this winter. The land it is going to be on is about 40 acres of steep hills and forest, valley and flatter land on the other end of the property. As for Models, I am still looking into all the different options but as of this moment, Bobcat and Gehl are sticking out. Thanks again for the input so far...

I believe I need to change the auger motor on my Loegering snowblower to match the flow from a 753c It has a 104-1093 20gpm currently and the 103-1537 15 gpm motor seems to be the best choice to get the speed suggested here in the forum. Question is the max rated psi for this series pump is 2000 psi, the specs say the psi from the 753c is 2500. I have read I don't want to go over the rated gpm but psi? Loegering has been purchased by Cat and any parts or information seems to have disappeared anyone have any manuals or schematics for the LSB series? Should I spring for a pressure/flow meter or pay a mechanic to come test I'll be using this machine approximately 200 hours max per year. This is the best skid steer porn available, thanks for all the work Lyle

 

[TriHonu]

I believe I need to change the auger motor on my Loegering snowblower to match the flow from a 753c It has a 104-1093 20gpm currently and the 103-1537 15 gpm motor seems to be the best choice to get the speed suggested here in the forum. Question is the max rated psi for this series pump is 2000 psi, the specs say the psi from the 753c is 2500. I have read I don't want to go over the rated gpm but psi? Loegering has been purchased by Cat and any parts or information seems to have disappeared anyone have any manuals or schematics for the LSB series? Should I spring for a pressure/flow meter or pay a mechanic to come test I'll be using this machine approximately 200 hours max per year. This is the best skid steer porn available, thanks for all the work Lyle

The only time you will hit the max pressure is if you stall the blower, or if the fan is iced solid to the frame (which for me happens frequently) and you engage the hydraulics. You will run a good chance of blowing the seal in the motor. If the motor can't handle the flow of your machine it will create a lot of friction and can overheat the oil.
Phone Loegering Customer Service at 800-373-5441.
Tell them what you are going to do and ask them for the specs on that hydraulic motor. You will want to know the displacement, mount, shaft size and type. You may also want to ask what the max fan speed is for the blower you purchased.
Most blower motors need to support radial loads. Insure the motor you choose has the output shaft supported with a bearing. (Some motors have no bearing on the output shaft.)
You will need to find a motor meeting those specs that will handle the max pressure and flow of your 753C.
I replaced the high flow motor in the snow blower I purchased. I used a CharLynn 2000 series motor. They will handle up to 3000 psi and 20 gallons per minute continuous, however the smallest displacement motor in this series is 4.9 cubic inches. These motors are recommended for skidsteer attachments.
Ideally I wanted a slightly smaller displacement motor to get the fan speed to the max recommended by the manufacturer. Throwing distance is greatly effected by the speed of the fan. That being said, I am happy with the performance of my blower.
Good luck on your project!

 

[Bisonhunter]

The only time you will hit the max pressure is if you stall the blower, or if the fan is iced solid to the frame (which for me happens frequently) and you engage the hydraulics. You will run a good chance of blowing the seal in the motor. If the motor can't handle the flow of your machine it will create a lot of friction and can overheat the oil.
Phone Loegering Customer Service at 800-373-5441.
Tell them what you are going to do and ask them for the specs on that hydraulic motor. You will want to know the displacement, mount, shaft size and type. You may also want to ask what the max fan speed is for the blower you purchased.
Most blower motors need to support radial loads. Insure the motor you choose has the output shaft supported with a bearing. (Some motors have no bearing on the output shaft.)
You will need to find a motor meeting those specs that will handle the max pressure and flow of your 753C.
I replaced the high flow motor in the snow blower I purchased. I used a CharLynn 2000 series motor. They will handle up to 3000 psi and 20 gallons per minute continuous, however the smallest displacement motor in this series is 4.9 cubic inches. These motors are recommended for skidsteer attachments.
Ideally I wanted a slightly smaller displacement motor to get the fan speed to the max recommended by the manufacturer. Throwing distance is greatly effected by the speed of the fan. That being said, I am happy with the performance of my blower.
Good luck on your project!

Thanks for the input. I tried that number again same answer,Loegering sold to Cat so call your local Cat dealer. Apparently Cat never made a low volume blower so no optional motors were specified. I did get a knowledgeable mechanic and talked application with him. It seems that if you go over the motors gpm capacity the motor heats up , parts expand and metal starts tearing and then would get into the system, if you stay under the gpm specs and push the pressure rating when the blower jammed you could blow a motor seal like you said. However seals appear to be available and replaceable so if the rest of my system checks out (still need flow and pressure test on 753 aux) I may end up tiptoeing around the pressure limit to get the rpms needed to throw. Most of you guys know this stuff but I couldn't find a couple of these details in past posts ( or didn't know where to look) so it's here for the next newbe. Thanks again

 

[TriHonu]

Thanks for the input. I tried that number again same answer,Loegering sold to Cat so call your local Cat dealer. Apparently Cat never made a low volume blower so no optional motors were specified. I did get a knowledgeable mechanic and talked application with him. It seems that if you go over the motors gpm capacity the motor heats up , parts expand and metal starts tearing and then would get into the system, if you stay under the gpm specs and push the pressure rating when the blower jammed you could blow a motor seal like you said. However seals appear to be available and replaceable so if the rest of my system checks out (still need flow and pressure test on 753 aux) I may end up tiptoeing around the pressure limit to get the rpms needed to throw. Most of you guys know this stuff but I couldn't find a couple of these details in past posts ( or didn't know where to look) so it's here for the next newbe. Thanks again

Quote: Bisonhuner- 'I may end up tiptoeing around the pressure limit to get the rpms needed to throw. '

The speed of the motor is primarily a function of the hydraulic flow, not the pressure. Hydraulic motors have a displacement. The displacement is the volume of oil that must flow through the motor to make the shaft turn one revolution.
In simple terms (not accounting for the motors volumetric efficiency) lets look at a motor that for every gallon of oil that flows through the motor the shaft rotates 50 revolutions. If you flow a half gallon of oil through the motor it will rotate about 25 times.
If the motor that turns the fan is directly mounted to the fan, you will have to get a motor that has the correct displacement for the amount of flow in your auxiliary circuit. If the motor is chain drive from the motor to the fan, then you could change the size of the sprockets to adjust the speed of the fan.
If you can find out what the displacement of the existing motor and what hydraulic flow it was designed to operate at, we can help you size a new motor once you find the flow of your 753C. According to the Bobcat Historical Specs your 753C was rated for 13 gallons per minute auxiliary flow and will probably show about 2400 psi at the couplers.

 

[Bisonhunter]

Quote:
Bisonhuner- 'I may end up tiptoeing around the pressure limit to get the rpms needed to throw. '


The speed of the motor is primarily a function of the hydraulic flow, not the pressure. Hydraulic motors have a displacement. The displacement is the volume of oil that must flow through the motor to make the shaft turn one revolution.
In simple terms (not accounting for the motors volumetric efficiency) lets look at a motor that for every gallon of oil that flows through the motor the shaft rotates 50 revolutions. If you flow a half gallon of oil through the motor it will rotate about 25 times.
If the motor that turns the fan is directly mounted to the fan, you will have to get a motor that has the correct displacement for the amount of flow in your auxiliary circuit. If the motor is chain drive from the motor to the fan, then you could change the size of the sprockets to adjust the speed of the fan.
If you can find out what the displacement of the existing motor and what hydraulic flow it was designed to operate at, we can help you size a new motor once you find the flow of your 753C. According to the Bobcat Historical Specs your 753C was rated for 13 gallons per minute auxiliary flow and will probably show about 2400 psi at the couplers.

I can tell this is not your first dance. Flow pressure tested today and got just what you saw speced out. 13 gpm at full throttle and 2400. The current motor is directly coupled to the fan ( the loegering has that fan that works like a paddle wheel but it does allow for bearings on both sides of the fan) it is a Charlynn 104-1903 4.9in3 with a case drain, rated 3000psi and 20gpm, one site showing a rpm of 799. I think it was skidsteer ca. that made the comment that 750 rpm for the fan would be ideal. If so I find a 3.6 in3 motor seems to bring me up to speed. Parker has one that is rated for 3000psi but is really really proud of it. I keep coming back to the S series charlynn 103-1573. It has a psi rating of 2000 but will handle 2500 for 10% of every minute. So it seems that would work out to six seconds to shut off flow if everything jammed up. But there is a t on the incoming flow, one side going to the fan motor then continuing on to the auger motor, the other side of the t goes into a control valve body with two spools. So I am thinking if I jam up the fan some pressure/fluid will go through this control body and back through the return line giving me time to shut down easily. Tip toeing around huh. Do you see any bad assumptions or weak thinking here?

 

[skidsteer.ca]

I can tell this is not your first dance. Flow pressure tested today and got just what you saw speced out. 13 gpm at full throttle and 2400. The current motor is directly coupled to the fan ( the loegering has that fan that works like a paddle wheel but it does allow for bearings on both sides of the fan) it is a Charlynn 104-1903 4.9in3 with a case drain, rated 3000psi and 20gpm, one site showing a rpm of 799. I think it was skidsteer ca. that made the comment that 750 rpm for the fan would be ideal. If so I find a 3.6 in3 motor seems to bring me up to speed. Parker has one that is rated for 3000psi but is really really proud of it. I keep coming back to the S series charlynn 103-1573. It has a psi rating of 2000 but will handle 2500 for 10% of every minute. So it seems that would work out to six seconds to shut off flow if everything jammed up. But there is a t on the incoming flow, one side going to the fan motor then continuing on to the auger motor, the other side of the t goes into a control valve body with two spools. So I am thinking if I jam up the fan some pressure/fluid will go through this control body and back through the return line giving me time to shut down easily. Tip toeing around huh. Do you see any bad assumptions or weak thinking here?

You could put a crossover relief valve between the supply and return hose to the loader (from the blower) to limit your pressure if you want. These are adjustable so you could limit the max pressure to the blower to protect the motor. You will give up some of the power you are putting to the blower by dropping the presure.
I would be temped to run the larger motor seen as you have it already. Your pump volume being lower then then designed for won't damage anything, you will just reduce your throwing distance. See how it works for you.
The biggest problem with used blowers is they should be matched up, an the newer machines keep getting larger pump flows and higher pressure, so if you pick up a used blower the odds of it being a ideal match are not great. But motors are not cheap either, so $75 on cross over relief and another 50 to 100 on plumbing might be a good option.

 

[Bisonhunter]

You could put a crossover relief valve between the supply and return hose to the loader (from the blower) to limit your pressure if you want. These are adjustable so you could limit the max pressure to the blower to protect the motor. You will give up some of the power you are putting to the blower by dropping the presure.
I would be temped to run the larger motor seen as you have it already. Your pump volume being lower then then designed for won't damage anything, you will just reduce your throwing distance. See how it works for you.
The biggest problem with used blowers is they should be matched up, an the newer machines keep getting larger pump flows and higher pressure, so if you pick up a used blower the odds of it being a ideal match are not great. But motors are not cheap either, so $75 on cross over relief and another 50 to 100 on plumbing might be a good option.

Good idea with the cross over relief. I got a screaming deal on the blower and buying a new motor is not a problem. I am just not getting any distance out of the unit now (10 feet) and it could be the existing motor has a fair amount of wear. What I really need is distance. I'll only be blowing dry snow and when it warms up I can bucket it out of the way. I got a "snow bucket" with the bobcat but by winters end I am pinched. I think my plan will be to get the S series motor and a spare seal, see how it works and if I blow the first seal then install a crossover relief. LIke some of the guys here wrenching and learning is some of the fun especially when you end up with a known quantity that makes life easier. I'm off with the family on spring break and then will be back with some questions about the control valves for the chute. I really appreciate your time and help. Thanks