Question about Deutz

[lesgawlik]

I have a T-200 with the Deutz BF4M1011F. It has run perfectly until recently. It would start on the first rotation of the crank, always in less than a second. This was regardless of the temperature. Sometimes I would forget to wait for the glow plugs to heat up, and it still started great. Now, when I hit the starter the engine turns over and fires, but stops immediately. It takes about 5-10 times to start it. Holding the starter in doesn't seem to help, since the engine kicks the pinion out, and it clashes into the ring gear. When the engine is warm, it starts fine. When it runs, the power is normal.

 

[farmshop]

I would check the fuel system. It sounds like it is loosing fuel. I would put a piece of clear hose in the supply line so you can see what's happening or you could try to pump the primer before starting

 

[lesgawlik]

I would check the fuel system. It sounds like it is loosing fuel. I would put a piece of clear hose in the supply line so you can see what's happening or you could try to pump the primer before starting

Thanks. I'll check the primer bulb. The curious thing is that once it get going, it runs great.

 

[bobbie-g]

Thanks. I'll check the primer bulb. The curious thing is that once it get going, it runs great.

I have that Deutz engine in an 863 (don't forget to change the timing belt!). At one point, I had trouble with it starting, but the symptoms didn't match yours exactly. Sometimes it would crank forever and never fire. Other times it worked fine. One day I had my wife crank it when it was not firing, and I whacked the fuel cutoff solenoid and it started instantly. Changed out the solenoid and that completely cured the problem. Was not a difficult changeout (my 14 year old grandson did it, his hands fit in there better). Before changing it out, I did check to ensure there was voltage to the solenoid using insulation-piercing probes. ---Bobbie-G

 

[lesgawlik]

I have that Deutz engine in an 863 (don't forget to change the timing belt!). At one point, I had trouble with it starting, but the symptoms didn't match yours exactly. Sometimes it would crank forever and never fire. Other times it worked fine. One day I had my wife crank it when it was not firing, and I whacked the fuel cutoff solenoid and it started instantly. Changed out the solenoid and that completely cured the problem. Was not a difficult changeout (my 14 year old grandson did it, his hands fit in there better). Before changing it out, I did check to ensure there was voltage to the solenoid using insulation-piercing probes. ---Bobbie-G

I hope I have it figured out. I have a very experienced operator who is helping me out with some work. I am out of the cab when he starts it. I hear it fire, and die, fire and die, over and over. When I run the machine and shut it off, I let the engine temp equilibrate for a few minutes, and set the idle at about 1200 RPM before I shut it down. I think my helper just pulls the throttle all the way off before he shuts it down. It starts for me fine when I shut it down with a little fuel heading to the engine.

 

[lesgawlik]

I hope I have it figured out. I have a very experienced operator who is helping me out with some work. I am out of the cab when he starts it. I hear it fire, and die, fire and die, over and over. When I run the machine and shut it off, I let the engine temp equilibrate for a few minutes, and set the idle at about 1200 RPM before I shut it down. I think my helper just pulls the throttle all the way off before he shuts it down. It starts for me fine when I shut it down with a little fuel heading to the engine.

It turns out that wasn't it. I had the same problem today. Primer bulb is full. I don't think it's fuel, since once the engine has been started for the day, it starts fine. Once it starts, it runs great. When I have the problem, it seems to start instantaneously, but then not fire on the next cylinders. If I hold the starter in, the engine cranks slowly, then turns over and will usually start. The battery is full, and I charge it constantly with a smart charger as I've done for months. I wonder if I have problems with one or more glow plugs? It's getting chilly at night, and the panel calls for about a 5 sec glow. I am thinking that one or two plugs are working, and that gives me the instant almost-start. The other one or ones isn't glowing, and the compression stroke bogs down the starter. Once I get a full revolution, I can get enough heat and rotation to cause the engine to fire. Sound right? Would a bad plug throw a fault code?

 

[natew51]

It turns out that wasn't it. I had the same problem today. Primer bulb is full. I don't think it's fuel, since once the engine has been started for the day, it starts fine. Once it starts, it runs great. When I have the problem, it seems to start instantaneously, but then not fire on the next cylinders. If I hold the starter in, the engine cranks slowly, then turns over and will usually start. The battery is full, and I charge it constantly with a smart charger as I've done for months. I wonder if I have problems with one or more glow plugs? It's getting chilly at night, and the panel calls for about a 5 sec glow. I am thinking that one or two plugs are working, and that gives me the instant almost-start. The other one or ones isn't glowing, and the compression stroke bogs down the starter. Once I get a full revolution, I can get enough heat and rotation to cause the engine to fire. Sound right? Would a bad plug throw a fault code?

Lesgawlik, Did you ever figure out what your issue is? If not, I could connect you with one of our technical guys to help you. We remanufacture diesel engines including the Deutz 1011 and have come across just about every scenario you can think of. We also sell component parts, timing belt kits, rebuild kits, etc. etc. that we could help you out with if needed. Just let me know and I'd be happy to connect you with Brett. You can reach me at 877.599.4806 or at [email protected] Kind Regards, Nate

 

[lesgawlik]

Lesgawlik, Did you ever figure out what your issue is? If not, I could connect you with one of our technical guys to help you. We remanufacture diesel engines including the Deutz 1011 and have come across just about every scenario you can think of. We also sell component parts, timing belt kits, rebuild kits, etc. etc. that we could help you out with if needed. Just let me know and I'd be happy to connect you with Brett. You can reach me at 877.599.4806 or at [email protected] Kind Regards, Nate

Nate, I did, thank you. I am almost certain the problem was a little corrosion on the #2 glow plug wire. I pulled the boot off, wiped it with a paper towel, put it back and it fired up right away. It's been good since. As I thought about the problem, the glow plugs were the obvious answer. The machine has always fired up immediately, about as well as a well-tuned gas engine. When it had its problems, it did fire on one or two cylinders immediately, and then it bogged down, almost like the battery was depleted. If you held the started for another second or two, it would get past compression for that cylinder, and then fire on the cylinders with the good glow plugs. After a few revolutions, it would start up and run normally. When the engine was hot, it started normally. To me, that ruled out fuel as the culprit. So, I think it's okay, but I very much appreciate the offer.

 

[7LBSSMALLIE]

Nate, I did, thank you. I am almost certain the problem was a little corrosion on the #2 glow plug wire. I pulled the boot off, wiped it with a paper towel, put it back and it fired up right away. It's been good since. As I thought about the problem, the glow plugs were the obvious answer. The machine has always fired up immediately, about as well as a well-tuned gas engine. When it had its problems, it did fire on one or two cylinders immediately, and then it bogged down, almost like the battery was depleted. If you held the started for another second or two, it would get past compression for that cylinder, and then fire on the cylinders with the good glow plugs. After a few revolutions, it would start up and run normally. When the engine was hot, it started normally. To me, that ruled out fuel as the culprit. So, I think it's okay, but I very much appreciate the offer.

these will start in 20 degree weather without glow. they bullet proof. check lift pump. filter screen. what youre looking for is two inch round cover retained by a 8mm / Philips head screw, with fuel lines leading to it remove and clean.

 

[lesgawlik]

these will start in 20 degree weather without glow. they bullet proof. check lift pump. filter screen. what youre looking for is two inch round cover retained by a 8mm / Philips head screw, with fuel lines leading to it remove and clean.

Smallie, where would the lift pump be on my engine? Towards the timing chain end or the drive belt end?

 

[bobbie-g]

Smallie, where would the lift pump be on my engine? Towards the timing chain end or the drive belt end?

On my 863 Deutz, the lift pump is just above and to the left of the oil dipstick. There will be a fuel hose coming from the primer bulb to the lift pump, and a fuel line departing the fuel pump going to the filter. I read somewhere the rubber diaphragm inside can rupture as the pump gets old and fill the crankcase with fuel. So when mine was 15 years old, I just put on a new one. I think it was less than 50 bucks. --- Also, the Deutz has a timing belt, not a chain, which needs to be changed every 5 years or 3000 hrs as I recall. ---Bobbie-G

 

[lesgawlik]

On my 863 Deutz, the lift pump is just above and to the left of the oil dipstick. There will be a fuel hose coming from the primer bulb to the lift pump, and a fuel line departing the fuel pump going to the filter. I read somewhere the rubber diaphragm inside can rupture as the pump gets old and fill the crankcase with fuel. So when mine was 15 years old, I just put on a new one. I think it was less than 50 bucks. --- Also, the Deutz has a timing belt, not a chain, which needs to be changed every 5 years or 3000 hrs as I recall. ---Bobbie-G

Thanks, bobbie-g. I found my lift pump there, just to the left of the dipstick. I took the screw out in the center of the pump, and the little basket-like filter came out. There wasn't much debris in it, but I cleaned it out anyway. When I put it back, I guess I didn't get it tight enough because the engine ran very poorly, cutting out several times in a short test run. I guess air was getting in the pump, since when I cranked down on the screw, the engine started up and ran normally. We have a warm spell here, so I am not confident the problem is solved, but it seems to be okay for the moment. I'm guessing that my lift pump may be failing, so I might get another one to have on hand just in case. It looks like about the easiest thing you can do on that engine. Is there anything to look out for?

 

[Flip57]

Thanks, bobbie-g. I found my lift pump there, just to the left of the dipstick. I took the screw out in the center of the pump, and the little basket-like filter came out. There wasn't much debris in it, but I cleaned it out anyway. When I put it back, I guess I didn't get it tight enough because the engine ran very poorly, cutting out several times in a short test run. I guess air was getting in the pump, since when I cranked down on the screw, the engine started up and ran normally. We have a warm spell here, so I am not confident the problem is solved, but it seems to be okay for the moment. I'm guessing that my lift pump may be failing, so I might get another one to have on hand just in case. It looks like about the easiest thing you can do on that engine. Is there anything to look out for?

I had trouble with my fuel lift pump and changed it out as well. I followed the suggestion from someone here on the forum and put a cheap inline fuel filter before the pump to keep the screen clean. It is easier to swap out the inline filter than removing the screen for cleaning and risk not getting a good seal when replacing.