plow angle

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russ

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Dec 25, 2009
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8
Yep Ken, you're right. The lines are alittle short. They're a 36" and a 48". After I add the crossover I'll add two more that should make up the difference. I'll be cautious in the meantime. Thanks again! Happy Holidays!!!! Steve
You should have runner install on that plow if not you going to be sorry whit that plow if you hit a bump on one of the ends . I have a big one and i bent 1" edge like a piece a paper .
 
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skayser2

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Dec 6, 2008
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87
You should have runner install on that plow if not you going to be sorry whit that plow if you hit a bump on one of the ends . I have a big one and i bent 1" edge like a piece a paper .
You're right Russ, thanks. I added a 2 1/2" x 2 1/2" x 3/8" angle on the backside of the plow edge. It runs the full width (5') Really stiffened up the lower part of the plow. I also run a 1" poly edge in front of the cutter bar so it's alittle more forgiving. I did bend it the first time I used it but was able to straighten it out by turning it 180 degress and bumping it against a curb a few times. Not a bit of problem since I added the angle iron. Good point Russ.
 
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skayser2

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You're right Russ, thanks. I added a 2 1/2" x 2 1/2" x 3/8" angle on the backside of the plow edge. It runs the full width (5') Really stiffened up the lower part of the plow. I also run a 1" poly edge in front of the cutter bar so it's alittle more forgiving. I did bend it the first time I used it but was able to straighten it out by turning it 180 degress and bumping it against a curb a few times. Not a bit of problem since I added the angle iron. Good point Russ.
Anyone have an opinion on what size lines to the angle cylinder should be? Currently has 1/4" hoses, each about 5' long or better. I store it outside and realize it's slow in the beginning but even after I've used it awhile she angles pretty slow and pulls the engine rpm down quite a bit. Should I maybe have gone with 3/8" or even 1/2" lines? http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn277/skayser2/IMG_0006-2.jpg
 
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skayser2

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You're right Russ, thanks. I added a 2 1/2" x 2 1/2" x 3/8" angle on the backside of the plow edge. It runs the full width (5') Really stiffened up the lower part of the plow. I also run a 1" poly edge in front of the cutter bar so it's alittle more forgiving. I did bend it the first time I used it but was able to straighten it out by turning it 180 degress and bumping it against a curb a few times. Not a bit of problem since I added the angle iron. Good point Russ.
Anyone have an opinion on what size lines to the angle cylinder should be? Currently has 1/4" hoses, each about 5' long or better. I store it outside and realize it's slow in the beginning but even after I've used it awhile she angles pretty slow and pulls the engine rpm down quite a bit. Should I maybe have gone with 3/8" or even 1/2" lines?
 

jerry

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Joined
May 3, 2007
Messages
2,043
Anyone have an opinion on what size lines to the angle cylinder should be? Currently has 1/4" hoses, each about 5' long or better. I store it outside and realize it's slow in the beginning but even after I've used it awhile she angles pretty slow and pulls the engine rpm down quite a bit. Should I maybe have gone with 3/8" or even 1/2" lines?
In the photo the hoses sure look fatter than 1/4, I just put power angle on my old manual plow with 2 standard plow cylinders with 1/4 hose and I am going to put a restrictor in line to slow them down. but they also are only 1 1/2 inch bore whereas yours is 2 1/2. So you have a much larger area especially on the out stroke.
 

mrfixitpaul

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Mar 28, 2009
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365
In the photo the hoses sure look fatter than 1/4, I just put power angle on my old manual plow with 2 standard plow cylinders with 1/4 hose and I am going to put a restrictor in line to slow them down. but they also are only 1 1/2 inch bore whereas yours is 2 1/2. So you have a much larger area especially on the out stroke.
If it is pulling the engine down when you are trying to angle the blade, there must be a restriction somewhere, either in the couplers or maybe one of the hoses was crimped too tight. I have seen many 453-463's with plows that angled pretty quick, those were kwik way plows with 2 angle cylinders cross connected, and they always had 1/4 inch hoses. Another thought...is the plow binding up when it is angling?
 
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skayser2

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Dec 6, 2008
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87
If it is pulling the engine down when you are trying to angle the blade, there must be a restriction somewhere, either in the couplers or maybe one of the hoses was crimped too tight. I have seen many 453-463's with plows that angled pretty quick, those were kwik way plows with 2 angle cylinders cross connected, and they always had 1/4 inch hoses. Another thought...is the plow binding up when it is angling?
I don't believe the plow is binding, nothing there really to bind. Just a pipe in a pipe pivot. In the picture, the lines were too short, but I used it that way last season. Had to watch how far I tilted when the arms were high. They were 36" and 48" respectively. This season I added another 36" on each hose using the proper coupler and 1/4" hose from Mills Fleet. The added lengths gave me the full range of lift and tilt again, but the process slowed and took alot of power. I agree that there is a restriction somewhere, either the hose size itself or possibly a crimp too tight. The fittings are sized ok. I suppose when using a nomographic flow chart one has to know how much fluid you need to move in a specific amount of time before honing in on the proper line ID. Thanks
 
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skayser2

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I don't believe the plow is binding, nothing there really to bind. Just a pipe in a pipe pivot. In the picture, the lines were too short, but I used it that way last season. Had to watch how far I tilted when the arms were high. They were 36" and 48" respectively. This season I added another 36" on each hose using the proper coupler and 1/4" hose from Mills Fleet. The added lengths gave me the full range of lift and tilt again, but the process slowed and took alot of power. I agree that there is a restriction somewhere, either the hose size itself or possibly a crimp too tight. The fittings are sized ok. I suppose when using a nomographic flow chart one has to know how much fluid you need to move in a specific amount of time before honing in on the proper line ID. Thanks
I realize viscosity of the fluid and the fact that the fluid is not recirculated in this application would slow things down, especially in the beginning. Follow these links to see if I'm thinking correctly. (http://www.baumhydraulics.com/calculators/cyl_speed.htm) 10gpm- 2.5" bore- 10" stroke- 1.125 rod diameter= 2.3 second cycle time This formula is used to determine cylinder speed at a certain size and GPM pump supply. (http://www.gates.com/downloads/download_common.cfm?file=NomographicChart.pdf&folder=brochure) This nomographic chart is used to calculate the proper hose ID at the 20 ft/sec ideal velocity at the given GPM pump supply (in this case 10 gpm) If you draw the corresponding line a 13/32" line is required to cycle the cylinder that quick (2.3 sec.) It's probably not necessary to cycle that quickly but using the 5-6 gpm point would slow it down some but still require at least a 5/16"- 3/8" hose. Hope these links work for you. Anything I'm thinking out of line??
 
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skayser2

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I realize viscosity of the fluid and the fact that the fluid is not recirculated in this application would slow things down, especially in the beginning. Follow these links to see if I'm thinking correctly. (http://www.baumhydraulics.com/calculators/cyl_speed.htm) 10gpm- 2.5" bore- 10" stroke- 1.125 rod diameter= 2.3 second cycle time This formula is used to determine cylinder speed at a certain size and GPM pump supply. (http://www.gates.com/downloads/download_common.cfm?file=NomographicChart.pdf&folder=brochure) This nomographic chart is used to calculate the proper hose ID at the 20 ft/sec ideal velocity at the given GPM pump supply (in this case 10 gpm) If you draw the corresponding line a 13/32" line is required to cycle the cylinder that quick (2.3 sec.) It's probably not necessary to cycle that quickly but using the 5-6 gpm point would slow it down some but still require at least a 5/16"- 3/8" hose. Hope these links work for you. Anything I'm thinking out of line??
Well I went ahead and changed the lines to the cylinder over to 3/8" vs the 1/4" I had on it. I also managed to go a foot shorter on each (5' and 6') and still get my maximum range of motion with the arms fully raised. What a difference that made! At idle, it will now fully extend in about 6 seconds without dropping the idle speed vs the 10-12 it took and almost killing the engine. At half throttle in about 5 seconds, again without changing the rpm. This is all being done at about 11 degrees so the oil is fairly stiff. It will most likely get quicker the warmer it gets. Hopefully this will extend equipment life alittle as it's only used during these cold Minnesota winters. Steve
 
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skayser2

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Well I went ahead and changed the lines to the cylinder over to 3/8" vs the 1/4" I had on it. I also managed to go a foot shorter on each (5' and 6') and still get my maximum range of motion with the arms fully raised. What a difference that made! At idle, it will now fully extend in about 6 seconds without dropping the idle speed vs the 10-12 it took and almost killing the engine. At half throttle in about 5 seconds, again without changing the rpm. This is all being done at about 11 degrees so the oil is fairly stiff. It will most likely get quicker the warmer it gets. Hopefully this will extend equipment life alittle as it's only used during these cold Minnesota winters. Steve
Here's a picture of the plow since the blasing and painting.


IMG_0006-2.jpg
 

skidsteer.ca

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Jan 20, 2006
Messages
3,853
I realize viscosity of the fluid and the fact that the fluid is not recirculated in this application would slow things down, especially in the beginning. Follow these links to see if I'm thinking correctly. (http://www.baumhydraulics.com/calculators/cyl_speed.htm) 10gpm- 2.5" bore- 10" stroke- 1.125 rod diameter= 2.3 second cycle time This formula is used to determine cylinder speed at a certain size and GPM pump supply. (http://www.gates.com/downloads/download_common.cfm?file=NomographicChart.pdf&folder=brochure) This nomographic chart is used to calculate the proper hose ID at the 20 ft/sec ideal velocity at the given GPM pump supply (in this case 10 gpm) If you draw the corresponding line a 13/32" line is required to cycle the cylinder that quick (2.3 sec.) It's probably not necessary to cycle that quickly but using the 5-6 gpm point would slow it down some but still require at least a 5/16"- 3/8" hose. Hope these links work for you. Anything I'm thinking out of line??
Looks good in its new paint. Generally asmall hose are used in this application so the operator finds it easyier to stop the plow at the angle he desires. A full cycle in 2.3 seconds would seem pretty fast imo. I reality the speed will likely be slower though, from the oil in the cylinder being cold and stiff (unless you change angles a lot)
Ken
 
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skayser2

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87
Looks good in its new paint. Generally asmall hose are used in this application so the operator finds it easyier to stop the plow at the angle he desires. A full cycle in 2.3 seconds would seem pretty fast imo. I reality the speed will likely be slower though, from the oil in the cylinder being cold and stiff (unless you change angles a lot)
Ken
Thanks guys. For a 2000# machine it works pretty well. Wish I'd had thought to bend the outside foot of the blade width (each end) in about 20 degrees or so before I welded the 3/8" X 2-1/2" angle on the bottom. Think it could have been done on the metal brake without too much trouble. Would have helped pushing without so much tailing off the ends. Will have to come up with some decent wings later. The one in the picture is too small and dosen't work to well. Steve
 

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