Opinions Needed

[lfutrell]

I have a broken cylinder ram on my bucket tilt. Is it practical to drill and tap the end of the ram and put a hardened stud in it or give up the $400.00+ dollars for a new ram?

 

[OldMachinist]

Is that area between the threads and the break smaller than the threads? Was the piston floating around and wore it down? I don't remember ever seeing one like that if it is.

 

[lfutrell]

Is that area between the threads and the break smaller than the threads? Was the piston floating around and wore it down? I don't remember ever seeing one like that if it is.

The turned down area is .725 the threads are .780 (metric)

 

[OldMachinist]

The turned down area is .725 the threads are .780 (metric)

Every one I've ever seen the area the piston mounts on was a few thousands bigger than the threads.

 

[OldMachinist]

Every one I've ever seen the area the piston mounts on was a few thousands bigger than the threads.

Back to your original question. If you counterbored and tapped the end of the rod and made your new stud so that it had a section of tight fitting diameter that went in to the counterbore about 1" and bottomed out it should work.

 

[lfutrell]

Every one I've ever seen the area the piston mounts on was a few thousands bigger than the threads.

It is made that way, you can see the tool marks in the turned down area.

sorry the picture is not very good

 

[OldMachinist]

It is made that way, you can see the tool marks in the turned down area.

sorry the picture is not very good

What keeps the piston centered to the rod? I can't tell a thing from the last picture, is that from a page in the parts manual?

 

[Tazza]

It is made that way, you can see the tool marks in the turned down area.

sorry the picture is not very good

Now i see what you mean.
I guess it could work, but if it broke steel that diameter, i'd like to see a new rod made and installed. The machine work on doing both operations, would be pretty close. You would also need to find someone with a tap to suit the bolt you were thinking of using, it would need to be really strong and a large diameter.
The failure could have been due to the machining work. I was always told that there is a potential failure point at any square shoulder like this rod may have had.
You are in good hands with OldMachinist's advise. He is the go to man when i have questions like this too

 

[jerry]

Now i see what you mean.
I guess it could work, but if it broke steel that diameter, i'd like to see a new rod made and installed. The machine work on doing both operations, would be pretty close. You would also need to find someone with a tap to suit the bolt you were thinking of using, it would need to be really strong and a large diameter.
The failure could have been due to the machining work. I was always told that there is a potential failure point at any square shoulder like this rod may have had.
You are in good hands with OldMachinist's advise. He is the go to man when i have questions like this too

If you have a good cylinder shop close they will make a new rod using the end of the old one. I should be cheaper than the dealer but it all depends on where you are.

 

[Tazza]

If you have a good cylinder shop close they will make a new rod using the end of the old one. I should be cheaper than the dealer but it all depends on where you are.

I don't understand the step where the piston mounts. There has to be something to centre it on the rod. As OM said, all the ones i have worked on had the part the piston slides on had this part slightly larger than the threads, by only a few thou. You don't want the piston to float on the end of the rod.
Very odd setup if it's factory.

 

[lfutrell]

I don't understand the step where the piston mounts. There has to be something to centre it on the rod. As OM said, all the ones i have worked on had the part the piston slides on had this part slightly larger than the threads, by only a few thou. You don't want the piston to float on the end of the rod.
Very odd setup if it's factory.

The piston has a counter bore about 3/4 in deep that goes over the big part of the ram keeping it centered. That is john deere for you.

 

[kroog]

The piston has a counter bore about 3/4 in deep that goes over the big part of the ram keeping it centered. That is john deere for you.

If you get the deere part number for the rod or the complete cylinder you could cross reference it. I used to work for a deere dealer. Usually deere has another company build some of their components.

 

[OldMachinist]

The piston has a counter bore about 3/4 in deep that goes over the big part of the ram keeping it centered. That is john deere for you.

I was able to find the picture you posted and I can see that the area is clearly turned down.

Here is a quick sketch of how I would fix it.

Make sure the face of the shoulder on the new stud bottoms out in the counter bore and red Loctite or stronger it.

 

[lfutrell]

I was able to find the picture you posted and I can see that the area is clearly turned down.

Here is a quick sketch of how I would fix it.

Make sure the face of the shoulder on the new stud bottoms out in the counter bore and red Loctite or stronger it.

I dropped the ram off at the machine shop this morning and this is their fix. I can't complane about it because they didn't charge me a thing. But I do send them a lot of business from my work place. Anyway I have it back together and it seems to be doing fine (guess time will tell) Thanks again for all of the input. Larry
P.S. that is the orginal piston showing the counter bore,

 

[thynes]

I dropped the ram off at the machine shop this morning and this is their fix. I can't complane about it because they didn't charge me a thing. But I do send them a lot of business from my work place. Anyway I have it back together and it seems to be doing fine (guess time will tell) Thanks again for all of the input. Larry
P.S. that is the orginal piston showing the counter bore,

I like that repair, and the price was right. Originally, when first reading this post I thought a stud would be too involved. Keeping it simple works more often than not. The more times you see something like this, the more "tools" you have in you mind for future repairs. Cheers!

 

[Tazza]

I like that repair, and the price was right. Originally, when first reading this post I thought a stud would be too involved. Keeping it simple works more often than not. The more times you see something like this, the more "tools" you have in you mind for future repairs. Cheers!

The price was right, you can't complain about that.