New track machine

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Team Fountain

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Upgrading from S185 to T300. Anything I need to know? I have about 20 hours in a 864 and was impressed. That, a very understanding wife, and a friendly salesman lead to the upgrade.
 

500K_773

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T300 should be a big step up -- bigger machine and bigger engine. I know that turning the machine hard in rough ground may bog the engine... you may want to watch that. Apparently the grading is a lot easier on the T machine as well. Good luck! Xing
 

500K_773

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The performance of track machines ( I used a 337 excavator for a weekend ) cannot be beat in muddy/soft conditions. There have been times that my 773 (same as your S185) has sat idle due to muddy conditions. I definately want a T300 also, but don't want to give up my rubber tire machine, so I'll wait until I can afford both. Make sure you get a few attachments with the purchase, may be easier to get by your wife now :) and also may get a better package deal with the salesman.
 

Team Fountain

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The performance of track machines ( I used a 337 excavator for a weekend ) cannot be beat in muddy/soft conditions. There have been times that my 773 (same as your S185) has sat idle due to muddy conditions. I definately want a T300 also, but don't want to give up my rubber tire machine, so I'll wait until I can afford both. Make sure you get a few attachments with the purchase, may be easier to get by your wife now :) and also may get a better package deal with the salesman.
I already have all the attachments I could possibly use for the s185. The only ones that wont work on the t300 are the buckets, so I upgraded them with the purchase. I am considering a combo bucket, but not sure if I need it. It looks great for grading, but I'm considering a box instead. I really can't justify keeping the 185, as I also have a Case 580SL and a Peterbilt. I'm a code crawler by trade. Fortunately, it pays well enough for me to have my hobbies.
 

500K_773

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I already have all the attachments I could possibly use for the s185. The only ones that wont work on the t300 are the buckets, so I upgraded them with the purchase. I am considering a combo bucket, but not sure if I need it. It looks great for grading, but I'm considering a box instead. I really can't justify keeping the 185, as I also have a Case 580SL and a Peterbilt. I'm a code crawler by trade. Fortunately, it pays well enough for me to have my hobbies.
After looking into the high flow upgrade and tracks for my machine, I may want to upgrade now like you did. May I ask what kind of trade in value they gave you for your S185 and what kind of deal they swung you with the T300? Here in Alaska, I would hope to get about $22,000 to $24,000 for my 773T with 300 hours on it. I have seen the same year and approximately same hours down in the lower 48 for $16,000 - $18,000.
 

Team Fountain

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After looking into the high flow upgrade and tracks for my machine, I may want to upgrade now like you did. May I ask what kind of trade in value they gave you for your S185 and what kind of deal they swung you with the T300? Here in Alaska, I would hope to get about $22,000 to $24,000 for my 773T with 300 hours on it. I have seen the same year and approximately same hours down in the lower 48 for $16,000 - $18,000.
I got $21k trade in on an 18 month old baby with 100 hours on it. I believe I paid $23K new. He hit me for $49k for the T300 with all options but high flow- including a construction bucket with teeth. Well worth the money. The T300 is awesome and much better suited for what I do. I used it all weekend and got more done than I did the whole time I owned the S185. I'm in Maryland where prices suck and taxes suck more. I think it's colder here than in Alaska too.
 

500K_773

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I got $21k trade in on an 18 month old baby with 100 hours on it. I believe I paid $23K new. He hit me for $49k for the T300 with all options but high flow- including a construction bucket with teeth. Well worth the money. The T300 is awesome and much better suited for what I do. I used it all weekend and got more done than I did the whole time I owned the S185. I'm in Maryland where prices suck and taxes suck more. I think it's colder here than in Alaska too.
I am trying to justify the added cost of upgrading right now and can't see the return on the dollar, maybe you can tell me what I'm missing.
My 773 has a 74” bucket which holds 17.6 ft^3 of material and has a top speed of 7 MPH. The T300 with a 80” bucket holds 22.4 ft^3 or the 88” bucket holds 24.6 ft^3 of material with a top speed of 6.6 MPH. The T300 holds more material, but is a little slower.
If the machines were digging the same size hole and hauling the excavated material the same distance, the T300 has a 26% advantage with the 80“ bucket or a 38% with the 88“ bucket. I may be able to charge the customer more per hour for the T300, but will burn more fuel and I assume the tracks have a higher cost per hour maintenance ($/hour at replacement time) than tires; so I will call this a wash. The T300 is also over twice the price of the 773 or S185. I know the T300 can lift more than the 773, but I rarely need to lift more weight (like pallets), it would just be nice to carry more material (ie.: bigger bucket).
The T300 would have the advantage when loading trucks, because trucking time would be less due to shorter load time. But I rarely have to haul material away from the customer's site. The T300 also has more horsepower, 81 HP vs 56 HP; so it could run the High Flow option I would want, but is not a necessity at the moment. The T300 does have tracks that would greatly help in soft/muddy conditions and should have better traction when pushing material. The downside to the tracks is the rough ride over obstacles/uneven ground and I couldn't chain up like my tires in the winter.
Don't get me wrong, I would love a T300 right now, but don't know if I (for my owner/operator business) can justify the added expense right now. If you can think of some more performance benefits and cost saving, please let me know, I'd like to see what I am missing.
 

Team Fountain

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I am trying to justify the added cost of upgrading right now and can't see the return on the dollar, maybe you can tell me what I'm missing.
My 773 has a 74” bucket which holds 17.6 ft^3 of material and has a top speed of 7 MPH. The T300 with a 80” bucket holds 22.4 ft^3 or the 88” bucket holds 24.6 ft^3 of material with a top speed of 6.6 MPH. The T300 holds more material, but is a little slower.
If the machines were digging the same size hole and hauling the excavated material the same distance, the T300 has a 26% advantage with the 80“ bucket or a 38% with the 88“ bucket. I may be able to charge the customer more per hour for the T300, but will burn more fuel and I assume the tracks have a higher cost per hour maintenance ($/hour at replacement time) than tires; so I will call this a wash. The T300 is also over twice the price of the 773 or S185. I know the T300 can lift more than the 773, but I rarely need to lift more weight (like pallets), it would just be nice to carry more material (ie.: bigger bucket).
The T300 would have the advantage when loading trucks, because trucking time would be less due to shorter load time. But I rarely have to haul material away from the customer's site. The T300 also has more horsepower, 81 HP vs 56 HP; so it could run the High Flow option I would want, but is not a necessity at the moment. The T300 does have tracks that would greatly help in soft/muddy conditions and should have better traction when pushing material. The downside to the tracks is the rough ride over obstacles/uneven ground and I couldn't chain up like my tires in the winter.
Don't get me wrong, I would love a T300 right now, but don't know if I (for my owner/operator business) can justify the added expense right now. If you can think of some more performance benefits and cost saving, please let me know, I'd like to see what I am missing.
Well, one significant thing I've noticed so far is the tracks are so much more stable that I don't slow down. With the tire machine, I would have to slow down a bit in tight corners or up grades. With the tracks, I find myself full speed no matter what the conditions, turns, grades, terrain, etc. Now that I have it, I have no problem justifying the extra expense of tracks (which is considerable) and diesel. The job I did yesterday was done in half the time it would have taken with even my Case580SL. Once you bite the bullet, you'll be kicking yourself for not doing it sooner. Atleast, thats how I feel right now. :O] Maybe get one on a demo for a week. Most dealers will gladly let you demo on your site for 40 hours before you buy. The demo sold me. Let the machine speak for itself.
 

500K_773

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Well, one significant thing I've noticed so far is the tracks are so much more stable that I don't slow down. With the tire machine, I would have to slow down a bit in tight corners or up grades. With the tracks, I find myself full speed no matter what the conditions, turns, grades, terrain, etc. Now that I have it, I have no problem justifying the extra expense of tracks (which is considerable) and diesel. The job I did yesterday was done in half the time it would have taken with even my Case580SL. Once you bite the bullet, you'll be kicking yourself for not doing it sooner. Atleast, thats how I feel right now. :O] Maybe get one on a demo for a week. Most dealers will gladly let you demo on your site for 40 hours before you buy. The demo sold me. Let the machine speak for itself.
I'd love to demo one, but all the T300's are sold by the time they get here. I think 3 have been sold locally. Does anyone know what the nationwide supply is like right now. I'll talk to my salesman, but I imagine I would have to commit to the sale to get a demo on one.
What bucket did you get with your machine? I can believe a skidsteer or track loader can shuttle back and forth faster than the backhoe loader, but I thought the backhoe loader would move more material with a bigger bucket. Aren't the backhoe loader buckets at least 1 yd^3 to 1.25 yd^3?
How does the T200 compare to the T300 in performance? I have seen low hour machines in the high $20's to low $30's. I am very partial to the verticle lift path machines though, and I think the T190 would be too small (not enough HP).
How much fuel does the new Kubota engine in the T300 burn / hour? My 773 would burn 1.25 - 1.5 gallons / hour while working it hard.
Thanks again for all the info.
 

Team Fountain

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I'd love to demo one, but all the T300's are sold by the time they get here. I think 3 have been sold locally. Does anyone know what the nationwide supply is like right now. I'll talk to my salesman, but I imagine I would have to commit to the sale to get a demo on one.
What bucket did you get with your machine? I can believe a skidsteer or track loader can shuttle back and forth faster than the backhoe loader, but I thought the backhoe loader would move more material with a bigger bucket. Aren't the backhoe loader buckets at least 1 yd^3 to 1.25 yd^3?
How does the T200 compare to the T300 in performance? I have seen low hour machines in the high $20's to low $30's. I am very partial to the verticle lift path machines though, and I think the T190 would be too small (not enough HP).
How much fuel does the new Kubota engine in the T300 burn / hour? My 773 would burn 1.25 - 1.5 gallons / hour while working it hard.
Thanks again for all the info.
I hear what you're saying about low supply. My dealer sells 8 T300 a year, which means there isn't a lot to pick from. When I first looked at them, he had 2 in stock. They both sold the same day, one to me and one to a pool installer. I got the 80" construction bucket. The track machine could never keep up with the case on a flat simple run in a shuttle competition, but I seldom do anything simple. Lucky I guess. Anyway, No matter what the slope or conditions, the 300 goes a full 7mph. The case would have to slow way down on the slopes and would do a lot more damage to the travel path, which means more time cleaning up and patching ground. Our soil around here is a nasty red clay, so the more you disturb it the nastier it gets. Tastes just like chicken. I don't know much about the T200, but I can tell you first hand that the T190 is an underpowered turd. As of March, they added some hp to the 190 (I believe its now 61 hp). I didn't try the new configuration, but 56 hp was way easy to stall. I do know that the 300 has considerably faster hydraulics than the 864 (which is supposed to be the same as the 200). Faster hydraulics means faster loading and dumping. Fuel, ouch. The 300 does seem to be thirsty. I haven't figured hourly yet, but it does use considerably more fuel than the 185 did. Info is my middle name.
 

500K_773

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I hear what you're saying about low supply. My dealer sells 8 T300 a year, which means there isn't a lot to pick from. When I first looked at them, he had 2 in stock. They both sold the same day, one to me and one to a pool installer. I got the 80" construction bucket. The track machine could never keep up with the case on a flat simple run in a shuttle competition, but I seldom do anything simple. Lucky I guess. Anyway, No matter what the slope or conditions, the 300 goes a full 7mph. The case would have to slow way down on the slopes and would do a lot more damage to the travel path, which means more time cleaning up and patching ground. Our soil around here is a nasty red clay, so the more you disturb it the nastier it gets. Tastes just like chicken. I don't know much about the T200, but I can tell you first hand that the T190 is an underpowered turd. As of March, they added some hp to the 190 (I believe its now 61 hp). I didn't try the new configuration, but 56 hp was way easy to stall. I do know that the 300 has considerably faster hydraulics than the 864 (which is supposed to be the same as the 200). Faster hydraulics means faster loading and dumping. Fuel, ouch. The 300 does seem to be thirsty. I haven't figured hourly yet, but it does use considerably more fuel than the 185 did. Info is my middle name.
I really appreciate the info. I know what you mean about the rubber tire machines disturbing the ground. I always have to keep moving my tracks over to keep from rutting the ground too much when transporting the material. I definately am looking forward to a track machine, but it may have to wait. My salesman is out of town until tomorrow, I'll contact him then about availablity and pricing.
If you bid your work, you will get more profits (and faster return on your investment) being able to complete the job faster with your T300. If you do any work hourly, how much do you charge with the T300? I charge $60 / hour for my 773 and $75 / hour when utilizing attachments such as the Brushcat.
Thanks again.
 

Team Fountain

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I really appreciate the info. I know what you mean about the rubber tire machines disturbing the ground. I always have to keep moving my tracks over to keep from rutting the ground too much when transporting the material. I definately am looking forward to a track machine, but it may have to wait. My salesman is out of town until tomorrow, I'll contact him then about availablity and pricing.
If you bid your work, you will get more profits (and faster return on your investment) being able to complete the job faster with your T300. If you do any work hourly, how much do you charge with the T300? I charge $60 / hour for my 773 and $75 / hour when utilizing attachments such as the Brushcat.
Thanks again.
Well, I have a niche in the market. I only bid by the day because I move dirt as a hobby. I bid at $650 for an 8 hour day using any of my equipment (port to port). Even if I'm only using my dumptruck, its $650 a day. Most of the guys around here are at $60 an hour for a bobcat. Even if it's only 2 hours work, I go into it at a full day price. I don't want the work, and my customers know it. I only work for about 5 different companies, and only about 1-2 days a week. I have a full time job that I enjoy. All my equipment is paid for and its only there for me to play with. My average job takes about 2.5 to 3 hours, so as you can see it benefits me to make the job go as quickly as possible. The really bad thing is not one of my customers feels hosed when I get done. I could do this full time at that price if I wanted too. Sad, really. My buddy has an 864 (18 in tracks) and he charges $60 and hour plus $100 delivery fee if less than a full days work. If he has to rent any attachments, he charges them for rental, pickup, and delivery. In this area, theres a LOT of competition for bocats and if you shop around you can get someone cheap. My people use me because they know exactly what they are going to get up front, and I let them know exactly what it is going to cost. Plus, I'm usually available on a days notice. My dump truck puts me in the top 10% around here because most people tow with pickups. PS. If I'm disposing of jobsite spoils, I add an additional $20 a yard.
 

500K_773

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Well, I have a niche in the market. I only bid by the day because I move dirt as a hobby. I bid at $650 for an 8 hour day using any of my equipment (port to port). Even if I'm only using my dumptruck, its $650 a day. Most of the guys around here are at $60 an hour for a bobcat. Even if it's only 2 hours work, I go into it at a full day price. I don't want the work, and my customers know it. I only work for about 5 different companies, and only about 1-2 days a week. I have a full time job that I enjoy. All my equipment is paid for and its only there for me to play with. My average job takes about 2.5 to 3 hours, so as you can see it benefits me to make the job go as quickly as possible. The really bad thing is not one of my customers feels hosed when I get done. I could do this full time at that price if I wanted too. Sad, really. My buddy has an 864 (18 in tracks) and he charges $60 and hour plus $100 delivery fee if less than a full days work. If he has to rent any attachments, he charges them for rental, pickup, and delivery. In this area, theres a LOT of competition for bocats and if you shop around you can get someone cheap. My people use me because they know exactly what they are going to get up front, and I let them know exactly what it is going to cost. Plus, I'm usually available on a days notice. My dump truck puts me in the top 10% around here because most people tow with pickups. PS. If I'm disposing of jobsite spoils, I add an additional $20 a yard.
That sounds like a novel way to charge for services, I may have to look into that myself. I work a full time job and have my excavating/landscaping as a supplimental source of income. Since I do operate in my days off, I really don't take the work unless it is worth my while. I was going to do snow removal full time this past winter, but it was such an on-demand service that I only did a few select clients. All of my clients know I have a top notch service and am usually available on short notice also, so I may try your approach this summer.
 

owensge

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That sounds like a novel way to charge for services, I may have to look into that myself. I work a full time job and have my excavating/landscaping as a supplimental source of income. Since I do operate in my days off, I really don't take the work unless it is worth my while. I was going to do snow removal full time this past winter, but it was such an on-demand service that I only did a few select clients. All of my clients know I have a top notch service and am usually available on short notice also, so I may try your approach this summer.
I've owned my T200 for a year now, but originally looked at the T190 which was too small. I really needed a track machine because of all the hills on my ranch. My T200 is like a mountain goat on hills, safe and sure. At 73hp, it has a lot of power. It's a machine that I can use all year round in dry, wet and muddy conditions. While trenching for my irrigation pipe, my T200 didn't mind being on very steep hills. I've had my machine in mud up to the top of the tracks and it came out of it with no problem.
I've never owner a wheeled skid steer, so I really can't compare the two.
With regards to the T300, I've heard that the boom arms rattle alot if your are moving with them raised.
 

Team Fountain

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I've owned my T200 for a year now, but originally looked at the T190 which was too small. I really needed a track machine because of all the hills on my ranch. My T200 is like a mountain goat on hills, safe and sure. At 73hp, it has a lot of power. It's a machine that I can use all year round in dry, wet and muddy conditions. While trenching for my irrigation pipe, my T200 didn't mind being on very steep hills. I've had my machine in mud up to the top of the tracks and it came out of it with no problem.
I've never owner a wheeled skid steer, so I really can't compare the two.
With regards to the T300, I've heard that the boom arms rattle alot if your are moving with them raised.
Haven't had any rattles yet. I'll sure keep you guys up to date if stuff starts falling off her.
 

864wood

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Haven't had any rattles yet. I'll sure keep you guys up to date if stuff starts falling off her.
I have owned my 864G for over a year and while I havent found a job I couldnt do,I have gotten it stuck only 2 times(both were sad stories but well worth a coulple of beers and some sad faces to tell the story to). Let me preface this by I normally operate this machine with an 84" combo bucket. This adds a little more weight on the front end than any other style bucket, however I will never take my machine to a job without it. I do backfill and grading work for a local small builder(@15 houses per year) and the finished results from the track machine plus combo bucket have landed me a steady supply of work. This amount to 1 to 3 days per week and work load is getting stronger from him. I have operated wheeled loaders for @ 10 years and have found track loaders to be far superior to anything and any make I have ever run. I also do skid steer work for Pulte Homes MD division and man do they pay well and on time. It is an excellent account and is due in part because my loader will tread where others dare not go. Also, the combo bucket in this eastern seabord market hasn't been trumpeted, but I have to say that after I demonstrate the machine and bucket I have an adoring audicence and valued paying customers. Feel free to ask questions @ same setup if you are new to this realm of skid steer machine in this configuration.
 

500K_773

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I have owned my 864G for over a year and while I havent found a job I couldnt do,I have gotten it stuck only 2 times(both were sad stories but well worth a coulple of beers and some sad faces to tell the story to). Let me preface this by I normally operate this machine with an 84" combo bucket. This adds a little more weight on the front end than any other style bucket, however I will never take my machine to a job without it. I do backfill and grading work for a local small builder(@15 houses per year) and the finished results from the track machine plus combo bucket have landed me a steady supply of work. This amount to 1 to 3 days per week and work load is getting stronger from him. I have operated wheeled loaders for @ 10 years and have found track loaders to be far superior to anything and any make I have ever run. I also do skid steer work for Pulte Homes MD division and man do they pay well and on time. It is an excellent account and is due in part because my loader will tread where others dare not go. Also, the combo bucket in this eastern seabord market hasn't been trumpeted, but I have to say that after I demonstrate the machine and bucket I have an adoring audicence and valued paying customers. Feel free to ask questions @ same setup if you are new to this realm of skid steer machine in this configuration.
The only time I drove a track loader was a T200 when I demo'ed an angle broom attachment. It was in a parking lot, so I didn't really get to use the tracks to their potential. I did notice a harsher ride, especially when traversing the gutters. The wheeled loaders don't have suspension, but do get cushion from the air in the tires and go over uneven terrain a little smoother.
How is the track machine to operate all day long, do you get beat up pretty bad in rough terrain? How are the tracks in gravel? My salesman said I would not want to operate a track machine too much in gravel (sand and 2“-3“ rocks), don't know if the rocks get in the tracks and rollers and wreck havoc or some other concern.
The more I read this forum and hear from other track machine owners, the more I want a T300. I may even give up my 773 to get one. I also want a combo bucket after reading the post in the attachments forum. Would like to use the dozer aspect to spread material and the clamping to grab brush and other loose material.
 

864wood

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The only time I drove a track loader was a T200 when I demo'ed an angle broom attachment. It was in a parking lot, so I didn't really get to use the tracks to their potential. I did notice a harsher ride, especially when traversing the gutters. The wheeled loaders don't have suspension, but do get cushion from the air in the tires and go over uneven terrain a little smoother.
How is the track machine to operate all day long, do you get beat up pretty bad in rough terrain? How are the tracks in gravel? My salesman said I would not want to operate a track machine too much in gravel (sand and 2“-3“ rocks), don't know if the rocks get in the tracks and rollers and wreck havoc or some other concern.
The more I read this forum and hear from other track machine owners, the more I want a T300. I may even give up my 773 to get one. I also want a combo bucket after reading the post in the attachments forum. Would like to use the dozer aspect to spread material and the clamping to grab brush and other loose material.
The main reason for buying a rubber track loader has to be a predominate work load in the dirt environment. All the time I have had to operate my 864G on pavement you have to treat the tracks with kids gloves or you wind up with excessive wear and damage. For example a full 360dgree turn on pavement at full rpm will have you riding a bucking bronco and the bonus is if its a customers prized sealed driveway? Well you can figure on a new seal coat because tracks 18"wide per side and 7' long can do some major cosmetic damage to hard pavement. It also will climb curbs but do it slowly. The final bonus is that all track loaders will cleat excess dirt and debris in the undercarrige and it invariably shakes and sheds out when crawling on hard pavement. So take your flat shovel and street broom. Where this type of machine really shines is in dirt and muck. I have personnaly laid and spread 22 tandem loads of topsoil on a backfill job to cap 100% pure clay and muck. This also happens to be the very same job that I buried my machine on before the dirt started arriving. Problem was solved due to the timely help of Team Fountain. But the bottom line is with a wheeled loader the job was undoable. However with the low ground pressure I could cap the water and muck and float on top. It was like driving a bobcat on a waterbed. I have run this machine for 3 days in a row on harsh terrain and notice less fatigue than in a wheeled loader. This is due in part to the baby factor you have to figure on when operating a wheeled loader when the conditions are harsh. As for the gravel issue; forget about it. Track loaders do not suffer the ball crawl under the tires when loading the bucket. As far as it goes with large stones and gravel, well just get used to your own personel rock crusher. The advantage here is its adds extra stone dust to your crush and run. You will invariably hear some horrendous noises from your tracks. I havent popped a track yet and am still trying. Just keep the grease up in the suspension and you'll be fine. It will wear the inside of the tracks, but I have put 300hrs on my machine since purchase and haven't noticed any major difference. These machines were made for rough terrain and slopes. It feels better from an operators viewpoint to operate upslope than downslope. I would imagine a very large rock or piece of shale could cause some aggravation to a tracked machine, however this is preferable to knocking the bead in on the rim of a wheeeled loader and having to jack to machine on a slope remove tire without air tools and make round trip in excess of 3/4 mile. I like a workout, but personal abuse is another matter. As far as the final question: I personnaly do not take my machine out to a job without my 84" combo. It's awsesome!!!! My config is with teeth, so I use it for almost all digging. But where it really shine is final grading, swale cutting, reverse loading, cutting down very large and hardened piles of dirt ,dragging material and finally the grapel aspect of the bucket. It can be a pain when using to load dumpsters with trash, but is cool to pick up logs and boulders etc.... Lets just say that as a former helicopter pilot in the Army I can get pretty creative with my use of bucket and machine. Its my outlet since I no longer fly helos. I have consider filming a video on the muliple uses of a combo and how to achieve maximun performance but I am not sure its a money maker like my machine is. Lets just say, I like to make money and make my competion look bad.
 
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