M610 No/low turning speed

[DannyTheVito]

Hi, I have a M610 that won't turn or is slow about turning. It will start to turn, but you kind of have to rock it. I've got a small hydraulic leak somewhere, but my understanding with this model is the drive train is all mechanical so I'm not too sure if that would affect it or not.

Any idea what I should do to start diagnosing this problem? I've tried turning on multiple surfaces and get the same results. My going theory right now is bad clutch linings like in this video https://youtu.be/iDiBgipxsnE?t=332 Anything I should try before tearing down the drive system?

Thanks.

 

[6brnorma]

Clutch linings are a good place to start. I'm never lucky enough to have material left on both sides of the lining……my guys usually run them until it's metal on metal and I have to replace the clutch plate also. You don't have too go as far into the machine as the guy in the video…..pull the primary (small) chain and the outside plate on each clutch and check the lining. It's not really that much of a job.

 

[DannyTheVito]

Clutch linings are a good place to start. I'm never lucky enough to have material left on both sides of the lining……my guys usually run them until it's metal on metal and I have to replace the clutch plate also. You don't have too go as far into the machine as the guy in the video…..pull the primary (small) chain and the outside plate on each clutch and check the lining. It's not really that much of a job.

Hi 6brnorma, thanks for the reply. I figured the clutch linings were bad, but I wanted to post here first to see if anyone had any other ideas. Hopefully no damage to the clutch plates themselves. I should have noticed earlier when we were loading it up on the trailer and it was struggling to drive up the ramps.
I'll load it up this week if it ever stops raining and get it to the shop to start tearing into it. Anyone know the going price on four clutch linings? I won't be hitting up the bobcat dealer until I get the clutches apart and I want to start prepping my wallet.
Thank for the help!

 

[6brnorma]

Hi 6brnorma, thanks for the reply. I figured the clutch linings were bad, but I wanted to post here first to see if anyone had any other ideas. Hopefully no damage to the clutch plates themselves. I should have noticed earlier when we were loading it up on the trailer and it was struggling to drive up the ramps.
I'll load it up this week if it ever stops raining and get it to the shop to start tearing into it. Anyone know the going price on four clutch linings? I won't be hitting up the bobcat dealer until I get the clutches apart and I want to start prepping my wallet.
Thank for the help!

Last ones I bought from Bobcat were $24.22 each. I have since tried the Kevlar ones from Tribco ($32.60)……supposed to last much longer. I have three machines using them now but only about 6 months so I would be hesitant to recommend them without more experience with them.
I didn't ask if your belt is functioning correctly……..not slipping?

 

[DannyTheVito]

Last ones I bought from Bobcat were $24.22 each. I have since tried the Kevlar ones from Tribco ($32.60)……supposed to last much longer. I have three machines using them now but only about 6 months so I would be hesitant to recommend them without more experience with them.
I didn't ask if your belt is functioning correctly……..not slipping?

Belt isn't slipping. I got it to slip once trying to pick up too big of a load. Other than that belt is fine.

 

[DannyTheVito]

Belt isn't slipping. I got it to slip once trying to pick up too big of a load. Other than that belt is fine.

Little update today. Got it to the shop and got one of the reverse clutches apart. The lining looks fine. Looks new even. Wondering now if the clutch just needed adjusting. I'm going to readjust them all to spec. I made a rookie mistake and didn't cover the oil pan and dropped a race in so it looks like I'll be fishing all day tomorrow.

 

[mmsllc]

Little update today. Got it to the shop and got one of the reverse clutches apart. The lining looks fine. Looks new even. Wondering now if the clutch just needed adjusting. I'm going to readjust them all to spec. I made a rookie mistake and didn't cover the oil pan and dropped a race in so it looks like I'll be fishing all day tomorrow.

Try to use a very strong magnet to get that race out. I am hoping (for your sake) that it is an easy job.

 

[6brnorma]

Try to use a very strong magnet to get that race out. I am hoping (for your sake) that it is an easy job.

How much play was there in your handles when driving it before adjustment? There should be 4 inches forward and 4 in reverse. Proceed with caution as there could be missing races or the wrong bearings or any number of things…..especially if the clutch linings appear to be new. Be sure the bearings have 31 rollers.
Don't be surprised to come up with lots of other "goodies" when you use that magnet.

 

[DannyTheVito]

How much play was there in your handles when driving it before adjustment? There should be 4 inches forward and 4 in reverse. Proceed with caution as there could be missing races or the wrong bearings or any number of things…..especially if the clutch linings appear to be new. Be sure the bearings have 31 rollers.
Don't be surprised to come up with lots of other "goodies" when you use that magnet.

Fished the race out and got it all back together. Adjusted the clutches all to 3-4 inches. I guess my problem is the variable speed valve. I'm not exactly sure how that part of the system works. Everything works great when I push that lever forward, but is it supposed to "leak" back down? I took it out today after getting everything back together and pushed the lever forward a few times. After driving it around for a bit it didn't "leak" back down, so I'm not 100% on the proper operation of this. This unit had been in storage for 10+ years and I posted here before about getting it running. It had some work done on it before it was put away, new cylinders and clutch linings it seems. When I came into possession of it I was informed it just had a small hydraulic leak, but that was somewhat normal for these units. I suppose I'll start hunting that down, but if the variable speed valve isn't supposed to "leak" down then I suppose that's a good place to start looking.

 

[6brnorma]

Fished the race out and got it all back together. Adjusted the clutches all to 3-4 inches. I guess my problem is the variable speed valve. I'm not exactly sure how that part of the system works. Everything works great when I push that lever forward, but is it supposed to "leak" back down? I took it out today after getting everything back together and pushed the lever forward a few times. After driving it around for a bit it didn't "leak" back down, so I'm not 100% on the proper operation of this. This unit had been in storage for 10+ years and I posted here before about getting it running. It had some work done on it before it was put away, new cylinders and clutch linings it seems. When I came into possession of it I was informed it just had a small hydraulic leak, but that was somewhat normal for these units. I suppose I'll start hunting that down, but if the variable speed valve isn't supposed to "leak" down then I suppose that's a good place to start looking.

It should not leak down. If there is nothing coming from the variable sheave (spray/mist) then it typically will be in the valve. You say it has been setting for some time so I would guess a couple of the seals inside the valve have dried and not functioning correctly or the check ball is stuck. It is not a tough rebuild except the removal of the valve itself from the machine which IS a pain.

 

[DannyTheVito]

It should not leak down. If there is nothing coming from the variable sheave (spray/mist) then it typically will be in the valve. You say it has been setting for some time so I would guess a couple of the seals inside the valve have dried and not functioning correctly or the check ball is stuck. It is not a tough rebuild except the removal of the valve itself from the machine which IS a pain.

Thanks for letting me know. I've been dreading doing work on any of the hydraulics on this machine because they all look like a pain to get to. If I'm reading the manual correctly, most of the connections are under the floor panels. I planned on finding the source of the hydraulic fluid leak today. I'll take a peak at what getting the variable speed valve off will entail. I'm assuming it's just leaking the fluid back into the reservoir, but I have noticed the belt gets a little oily. Multiple leaks maybe, oh boy.

 

[6brnorma]

Thanks for letting me know. I've been dreading doing work on any of the hydraulics on this machine because they all look like a pain to get to. If I'm reading the manual correctly, most of the connections are under the floor panels. I planned on finding the source of the hydraulic fluid leak today. I'll take a peak at what getting the variable speed valve off will entail. I'm assuming it's just leaking the fluid back into the reservoir, but I have noticed the belt gets a little oily. Multiple leaks maybe, oh boy.

No…..the variable speed valve is under the seat by your left hand. Most of the connections are easy (messy) but it does require a thin, 9/16 "crows foot" to get one nut off in order to remove the valve. Typically, the problem will be in the 'variable speed' itself as the valves are pretty reliable, however, from your description ….. it could be either/or….or even both. If the belt is getting wet, I would probably start with the variable speed and do the valve second.

 

[7LBSSMALLIE]

No…..the variable speed valve is under the seat by your left hand. Most of the connections are easy (messy) but it does require a thin, 9/16 "crows foot" to get one nut off in order to remove the valve. Typically, the problem will be in the 'variable speed' itself as the valves are pretty reliable, however, from your description ….. it could be either/or….or even both. If the belt is getting wet, I would probably start with the variable speed and do the valve second.

WHY HAVENT WE SHOT THESE THINGS, AND BURIED ON BACK FORTY. yea iknow it stilll runs but for christ sakes stop the bleedining. yea its cool to hve an antique unit. but you may have noticed that its constant headache. not turn the key clean the barn . more like lets see if bobcat starts. than we will get started. .it has to be a great big pain. havininig unreliable equipent. SHIT SHOULD START AND RUN. chainsaw weeedeater mower etc not work on every time you want to use it, just sayining man

 

[DannyTheVito]

WHY HAVENT WE SHOT THESE THINGS, AND BURIED ON BACK FORTY. yea iknow it stilll runs but for christ sakes stop the bleedining. yea its cool to hve an antique unit. but you may have noticed that its constant headache. not turn the key clean the barn . more like lets see if bobcat starts. than we will get started. .it has to be a great big pain. havininig unreliable equipent. SHIT SHOULD START AND RUN. chainsaw weeedeater mower etc not work on every time you want to use it, just sayining man

WHY HAVENT WE SHOT THESE THINGS, AND BURIED ON BACK FORTY.

Because the new ones can break as often

more like lets see if bobcat starts. than we will get started. .it has to be a great big pain. havininig unreliable equipent.

With a little preventive maintenance it's not so bad.

sh*t SHOULD START AND RUN. chainsaw weeedeater mower etc not work on every time you want to use it, just sayining man

In a perfect world...

Shop update
Took the floor, seat, and seat pan off to look for the source of a hydraulic leak. Couldn't find anything from the top so might have to crawl underneath. I had a look at the variable speed valve, it does look a bit annoying to pull off. I'm going to operate it for a few hours this weekend to see if I can find the hydraulic leak. Hopefully the variable speed valve will "loosen up" and stayed engaged, if not I'll put it on the list to be rebuilt.

 

[6brnorma]

Because the new ones can break as often

With a little preventive maintenance it's not so bad.

In a perfect world...

Shop update
Took the floor, seat, and seat pan off to look for the source of a hydraulic leak. Couldn't find anything from the top so might have to crawl underneath. I had a look at the variable speed valve, it does look a bit annoying to pull off. I'm going to operate it for a few hours this weekend to see if I can find the hydraulic leak. Hopefully the variable speed valve will "loosen up" and stayed engaged, if not I'll put it on the list to be rebuilt.

I find it reprehensible that a "Skidsteer" specific forum would have two members that go out of their way to make new members seeking assistance with skid steers, feel so unwelcome. I wonder…..do you rail against every new member who asks a question in the Gehl, Thomas or Takeuchi sub-forums as those aren't exactly mainstream either. Maybe you visit the TractorByNet forum and chastise the 8N owners for not having a 7000 series JD. You both have made your feelings on the subject known multiple times……thanks……..now, move on and maybe with some degree of sapience at least attempt to be a contributing asset to the forum.

 

[6brnorma]

I find it reprehensible that a "Skidsteer" specific forum would have two members that go out of their way to make new members seeking assistance with skid steers, feel so unwelcome. I wonder…..do you rail against every new member who asks a question in the Gehl, Thomas or Takeuchi sub-forums as those aren't exactly mainstream either. Maybe you visit the TractorByNet forum and chastise the 8N owners for not having a 7000 series JD. You both have made your feelings on the subject known multiple times……thanks……..now, move on and maybe with some degree of sapience at least attempt to be a contributing asset to the forum.

Danny……….IF... the valve is not leaking and…IF..the variable speed/roto swivel assemblies are not the problem, then you may need nothing more then a shim in the variable speed valve. That would be done by removing the plug (allen wrench) found to the front of the valve, below the spool and placing one (thin flat washer shaped) shim and replacing the plug. Easy fix.

 

[DannyTheVito]

Danny……….IF... the valve is not leaking and…IF..the variable speed/roto swivel assemblies are not the problem, then you may need nothing more then a shim in the variable speed valve. That would be done by removing the plug (allen wrench) found to the front of the valve, below the spool and placing one (thin flat washer shaped) shim and replacing the plug. Easy fix.

I took it out today and observed no oil leaking out near the belt so I believe the variable speed is leaking back through the valve. I've been looking through the hydraulics manual. I'm using this manual http://ardiehl.de/Bobcat/610/Bobcat600hydraulic_system.pdf and I'm not sure which part of the valve would be leaking back.
I was also able to locate the leak that is leaking oil out onto the ground. It seems to be coming from the raise/lower pedal rod. I can't seem to find that part of the system in the hydraulic manual so I'm kind of at a loss at what to do about that.

 

[6brnorma]

I took it out today and observed no oil leaking out near the belt so I believe the variable speed is leaking back through the valve. I've been looking through the hydraulics manual. I'm using this manual http://ardiehl.de/Bobcat/610/Bobcat600hydraulic_system.pdf and I'm not sure which part of the valve would be leaking back.
I was also able to locate the leak that is leaking oil out onto the ground. It seems to be coming from the raise/lower pedal rod. I can't seem to find that part of the system in the hydraulic manual so I'm kind of at a loss at what to do about that.

So….if you will look at Fig. 4-13…..place the shim between the spring and the plug as I described in my previous post. If there is not enough pressure on the ball/check, fluid will simply pass back through.
The main control valve (under the seat) is shown in Fig. 4-18……unless it is a "serious" leak……I would leave it. Should you decide to tackle it……it can be done without removing the valve body. It is really a two person job (one under the machine and one standing in the foot panel area) to remove spools and replace seals. Not expensive but typically VERY messy and an exercise in frustration.

 

[DannyTheVito]

So….if you will look at Fig. 4-13…..place the shim between the spring and the plug as I described in my previous post. If there is not enough pressure on the ball/check, fluid will simply pass back through.
The main control valve (under the seat) is shown in Fig. 4-18……unless it is a "serious" leak……I would leave it. Should you decide to tackle it……it can be done without removing the valve body. It is really a two person job (one under the machine and one standing in the foot panel area) to remove spools and replace seals. Not expensive but typically VERY messy and an exercise in frustration.

Alright. Seems easy enough. I'll get it back to the shop this week. Will there be any pressure on the hydraulic system when I go to start taking it apart? The leak on the main control valve isn't too bad to worry about now. I'll get the variable speed valve working correctly then worry about that leak. Thanks.