LS170 High RPM smoke

[pinball1]

I've got an 2001 LS170 that smokes and I am sure you guys could point me in the right direction. It has 900 hours and fires right up with no smoke, but will shoot out a good stream of black smoke when increasing RPMs but it clears up pretty quick. What I do notice is that if you run the machine above 2800 RPM it blows black smoke all the time and seems to have a little miss, below 2800 and it runs clear unless you put it under a load or increase the RPMs higher. I notice the exhaust has a good bit of black ash/powder in it, much more than just a coating of the pipe reminds me of ash in the fire place except it is jet black. I am very mechanical but all my experience is with gas burners. It doesn't use any oil. I have replaced the outer filter as they didn't have the inner. Doesn't seem to be down on power when you are below the 2800 Rpm range, above that and it may be a little weaker with a miss maybe? Any advice would be appreciated. Mike

 

[Tazza]

My first thought was air filter but as you changed that i would think your injectors may need attention. After you mentioned the soot that also sounds like injectors. Usually when they aren't rite you get like tiny balls of black soot out the exhaust. It may be a good idea to pull them and get them checked. I'm a little lazy and have pulled them and pulled them apart and cleaned, re-assembled and checked by hooking an injector to the pump with a tube line out the back. You can check the spray pattern. This will not tell you the cracking pressure or if the nozzle is leaking though.
If you don't know what you are doing, it may be an idea to take it to a shop and get them to check them for you.
You can do a simple go or no go test by removing the injectors, attach a tube line to the pump and hang it out the back, attach an injector and crank the engine till you get a spray. I'm assuming your engine is in-direct injection so your spray should be a narrow cone. It should be about 1' long and quite narrow. Don't put your hand near this! it can penetrate the skin. If the spray looks rite try the next 3. The spray should be even, without any stray spray (if that makes sense). Once you see it, you will understand. If its direct injection it should spray like a fan from the tip, almost like what you see on TV when someone shoots an automatic gun, they look like flower petals from around 6 or so points.
It gives you somewhere to start at least, i personally would start with the injectors. Even a badly worn engine that isn't burning a lot of engine oil shouldn't smoke when warm and not under load. 9 times out of 10 its your fuel system, be it injectors or the pump.
Do tell us how you go!

 

[pinball1]

My first thought was air filter but as you changed that i would think your injectors may need attention. After you mentioned the soot that also sounds like injectors. Usually when they aren't rite you get like tiny balls of black soot out the exhaust. It may be a good idea to pull them and get them checked. I'm a little lazy and have pulled them and pulled them apart and cleaned, re-assembled and checked by hooking an injector to the pump with a tube line out the back. You can check the spray pattern. This will not tell you the cracking pressure or if the nozzle is leaking though.
If you don't know what you are doing, it may be an idea to take it to a shop and get them to check them for you.
You can do a simple go or no go test by removing the injectors, attach a tube line to the pump and hang it out the back, attach an injector and crank the engine till you get a spray. I'm assuming your engine is in-direct injection so your spray should be a narrow cone. It should be about 1' long and quite narrow. Don't put your hand near this! it can penetrate the skin. If the spray looks rite try the next 3. The spray should be even, without any stray spray (if that makes sense). Once you see it, you will understand. If its direct injection it should spray like a fan from the tip, almost like what you see on TV when someone shoots an automatic gun, they look like flower petals from around 6 or so points.
It gives you somewhere to start at least, i personally would start with the injectors. Even a badly worn engine that isn't burning a lot of engine oil shouldn't smoke when warm and not under load. 9 times out of 10 its your fuel system, be it injectors or the pump.
Do tell us how you go!

Thanks for the reply, I will give the injectors a try it doesn't sound too hard. What type of tube line would you suggest? If I pull one a part what do you suggest cleaning it with? I haven't changed the fuel filter yet, but I wouldn't think this would cause the smoke? Any thoughts about checking the turbo? Thanks again!

 

[Tazza]

Thanks for the reply, I will give the injectors a try it doesn't sound too hard. What type of tube line would you suggest? If I pull one a part what do you suggest cleaning it with? I haven't changed the fuel filter yet, but I wouldn't think this would cause the smoke? Any thoughts about checking the turbo? Thanks again!

OH you have a turbo......
If you remove the inlet, you can check if there is oil in there, if its oily you could have blown turbo seals. I'm really not the person to talk to about turbo engines, i have never owned one. Burning engine oil should be blue/white but i don't think it will cause the soot you describe.
The tube line, just use one thats already there and turn it to face out wards and attach an injector.
Cleaning the internals of the injector can be done with compressed air and say kerosene or any other solvent. Ensure you re-assemble with diesel or another lubricant, i use WD40. Keep each injector separate! don't mix the parts up as they are set to the correct pressure with a spring and washer, thicker the washer the higher the cracking pressure is. The nozzle and needle are matched so they don't leak. Its really a job for someone who knows what they are doing, but if you are in a bind you can clean them, but not as easy to check for leaks and cracking pressure.
I should post a picture of inside a fuel injector, they are very simple, but very precise. See if i remember to do that tonight.

 

[pinball1]

OH you have a turbo......
If you remove the inlet, you can check if there is oil in there, if its oily you could have blown turbo seals. I'm really not the person to talk to about turbo engines, i have never owned one. Burning engine oil should be blue/white but i don't think it will cause the soot you describe.
The tube line, just use one thats already there and turn it to face out wards and attach an injector.
Cleaning the internals of the injector can be done with compressed air and say kerosene or any other solvent. Ensure you re-assemble with diesel or another lubricant, i use WD40. Keep each injector separate! don't mix the parts up as they are set to the correct pressure with a spring and washer, thicker the washer the higher the cracking pressure is. The nozzle and needle are matched so they don't leak. Its really a job for someone who knows what they are doing, but if you are in a bind you can clean them, but not as easy to check for leaks and cracking pressure.
I should post a picture of inside a fuel injector, they are very simple, but very precise. See if i remember to do that tonight.

Turns out the Turbo is shot. New one is $1700 at the dealer. Any suggestions or rebuilders etc?

 

[Tazza]

Turns out the Turbo is shot. New one is $1700 at the dealer. Any suggestions or rebuilders etc?

ouch!!!
Have you tried calling a turbo shop? they may be able to repair it.

 

[skidsteer.ca]

ouch!!!
Have you tried calling a turbo shop? they may be able to repair it.

That is extreme, On for a 3406 400 hp cat isn't that high.
Check for Fuel injection /Turbo repair shops, often found together. Look on the net too. That item is small enough its cheap to ship.
Ken

 

[Earthwerks Unlimited]

That is extreme, On for a 3406 400 hp cat isn't that high.
Check for Fuel injection /Turbo repair shops, often found together. Look on the net too. That item is small enough its cheap to ship.
Ken

Yup my buddy's LS 170 also blew the turbo. He got his rebuilt for a about $400 from someplace local (to Detroit). I have seen them on eBay too for about $350-$400. I'd take a chance and find some place that sells the rebuild parts---my experience is as soon as you mention "diesel" to a mechanic, the price goes up 3-10 times for no good reason. Like Wendy's says---"parts is parts".

 

[pinball1]

Yup my buddy's LS 170 also blew the turbo. He got his rebuilt for a about $400 from someplace local (to Detroit). I have seen them on eBay too for about $350-$400. I'd take a chance and find some place that sells the rebuild parts---my experience is as soon as you mention "diesel" to a mechanic, the price goes up 3-10 times for no good reason. Like Wendy's says---"parts is parts".

Thanks for the info. Any chance you can find out who rebuilt it for him? I have called a bunch of places and no one wants to rebuild this IHI? Messicks.com has it for $1636 but $400-500 is much better.

 

[Earthwerks Unlimited]

Thanks for the info. Any chance you can find out who rebuilt it for him? I have called a bunch of places and no one wants to rebuild this IHI? Messicks.com has it for $1636 but $400-500 is much better.

Try this number: Superior Diesel Repair. 3735 Central St Detroit, MI 48210 Phone: (313) 842-4616. 4 Star Rating. These guys do all sorts of diesel work large to huge. I( bought parts from them and at the time were 1/2 the price or less what the dealers wanted. They might even have a core service where you just send yours in and they send you out a rebuilt one.