Leaking lift ram 453

[Katoh]

G'Day Friends
I have just noticed that my left hand lift ram is leaking oil from the front , I'm new to most this stuff so not certain what the best plan of attack is.
I want to do a full lube change and fluids but when I saw this, I thought to fix it prior to that. Where is the best place to buy a new seal kit from, I'm in Oz but don't mind waiting if its from the US, as long as they ship internationally.
Is it possible to replace the seals without removing the ram? If the left side has gone would it be advisable to do the right side at the same time? The machine has only 750hrs, past history unknown as I purchased at auction.
Or should I get a professional to change the seals?

Cheers
Katoh

 

[SkidRoe]

Is that a spot of missing chrome on your rod in the picture? If so, that needs to be dealt with before replacing the seals. Tazza seems to have a good source for seals in Auz. Maybe he will chime in.

 

[Katoh]

Is that a spot of missing chrome on your rod in the picture? If so, that needs to be dealt with before replacing the seals. Tazza seems to have a good source for seals in Auz. Maybe he will chime in.

The chrome is all good its just a smear of paint from when I painted her. Was leaking well before I repainted, I remember really cleaning up an oily mess under that ram prior to prepping.
Katoh

 

[OldMachinist]

The chrome is all good its just a smear of paint from when I painted her. Was leaking well before I repainted, I remember really cleaning up an oily mess under that ram prior to prepping.
Katoh

http://www.ebay.com/itm/6587790-Bob...=BI_Heavy_Equipment_Parts&hash=item4ab1cf1028
They say they ship international but I'd check the rates.

 

[Katoh]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/6587790-Bobcat-BH-Skid-Steer-Loader-Cylinder-Seal-Kit-310-371-440-453-720-905-/320810717224?pt=BI_Heavy_Equipment_Parts&hash=item4ab1cf1028
They say they ship international but I'd check the rates.

Magnificent, for a mere $20.00 thats delivered to Oz I can get a kit for both sides. Wow! I looked on Ebay earlier nothing came up, I should have gone to the US site.
The question still remains do you replace both sides while at it, and can you do it without removing the rams totally?
Thanks for the replies, much appreciated and helpful.
Cheers
Katoh

 

[OldMachinist]

Magnificent, for a mere $20.00 thats delivered to Oz I can get a kit for both sides. Wow! I looked on Ebay earlier nothing came up, I should have gone to the US site.
The question still remains do you replace both sides while at it, and can you do it without removing the rams totally?
Thanks for the replies, much appreciated and helpful.
Cheers
Katoh

I would do both sides while you have the system opened up and all the tools there. You can rebuild the lift cylinders without taking them off if you have a way to safely raise and block the lift arms up out of the way to get the rod out.

 

[SkidRoe]

I would do both sides while you have the system opened up and all the tools there. You can rebuild the lift cylinders without taking them off if you have a way to safely raise and block the lift arms up out of the way to get the rod out.

If you are going to support the loader boom to do your rebuild either in-place or off the machine,make sure you place some jack stands under the rear of the machine. These machines are very close to their balance point at the best of times, and will topple backwards once the weight of the boom is removed from the cylinders. I found this out the hard way last year, when I had to unpin my one cylinder to route my aux lines. Thankfully, I did not have the boom raised too high, and I had my floor jack handy. Personally, I would break the gland nuts loose while the cylinders were on the machine, and then remove them to complete the job. You need a slide hammer to pull the rear pins. HTH

 

[Katoh]

If you are going to support the loader boom to do your rebuild either in-place or off the machine,make sure you place some jack stands under the rear of the machine. These machines are very close to their balance point at the best of times, and will topple backwards once the weight of the boom is removed from the cylinders. I found this out the hard way last year, when I had to unpin my one cylinder to route my aux lines. Thankfully, I did not have the boom raised too high, and I had my floor jack handy. Personally, I would break the gland nuts loose while the cylinders were on the machine, and then remove them to complete the job. You need a slide hammer to pull the rear pins. HTH

Gentlemen
Some mighty fine information again. I will replace both side seals while I'm at it, I have a large bricklayers tressel that will be perfect for under arm supports. And yes I found out the hard way to about putting a jack under the rear as support. I found thats its not so bad with the arms up but when you tilt that cabin back it just wants to roll over.
Apologies In my last thread I believe I said I could get both seals for $20.00 delivered. This is false the shipping was actually very dear, over $60 just in postage. I did find another supplier that will supply me both sets and freight for $32.20Au. Still a bargain and i have ordered and awaiting the set.
The best thing is that I do not have to remove the rams from the arms, should make the whole job a lot quicker and easier.
Cheers Again
Katoh

 

[Tazza]

Gentlemen
Some mighty fine information again. I will replace both side seals while I'm at it, I have a large bricklayers tressel that will be perfect for under arm supports. And yes I found out the hard way to about putting a jack under the rear as support. I found thats its not so bad with the arms up but when you tilt that cabin back it just wants to roll over.
Apologies In my last thread I believe I said I could get both seals for $20.00 delivered. This is false the shipping was actually very dear, over $60 just in postage. I did find another supplier that will supply me both sets and freight for $32.20Au. Still a bargain and i have ordered and awaiting the set.
The best thing is that I do not have to remove the rams from the arms, should make the whole job a lot quicker and easier.
Cheers Again
Katoh

That price is pretty good, mine cost about $25 per ram, that's piston and gland nut seals.
You will need to crack the lines going to the rams to allow you to be able to draw the rod out. You may be able to operate the lift pedal to allow you to pull the rods out, but i am not usre. I generally pull the whole ram out.
Remember to watch the direction of the seals, they must go in the right way around.

 

[Katoh]

That price is pretty good, mine cost about $25 per ram, that's piston and gland nut seals.
You will need to crack the lines going to the rams to allow you to be able to draw the rod out. You may be able to operate the lift pedal to allow you to pull the rods out, but i am not usre. I generally pull the whole ram out.
Remember to watch the direction of the seals, they must go in the right way around.

Gentlemen Here you go no secrete were I bought the seals from, 6587790 Var Cylinder Seal Kit Fits Bobcat 310-905 from Ebay Au Apologies I should have posted this earlier. Tazza you have me a little worried now, I was under the assumption, After I lifted the arms and supported them, I could remove the front arm pins and the pistons should then slide out. Or as that too simple? Cheers Katoh

 

[jerry]

Gentlemen Here you go no secrete were I bought the seals from, 6587790 Var Cylinder Seal Kit Fits Bobcat 310-905 from Ebay Au Apologies I should have posted this earlier. Tazza you have me a little worried now, I was under the assumption, After I lifted the arms and supported them, I could remove the front arm pins and the pistons should then slide out. Or as that too simple? Cheers Katoh

If you are going to leave the tube on the machine be sure to clean thoroughly before loosening anything. Its a better cleaner job if after you loosen the gland you remove the tube from the machine and do the work on the bench or in a vise. Too easy to get a few grains of dirt in there otherwise.

 

[OldMachinist]

Gentlemen Here you go no secrete were I bought the seals from, 6587790 Var Cylinder Seal Kit Fits Bobcat 310-905 from Ebay Au Apologies I should have posted this earlier. Tazza you have me a little worried now, I was under the assumption, After I lifted the arms and supported them, I could remove the front arm pins and the pistons should then slide out. Or as that too simple? Cheers Katoh

What Tazza is saying is that you need to loosen the hydraulic lines to allow some air in so you can pull the piston out and let it out again when you put it back together. Doing the seals is a messy job with them still on the machine because it hard to control where the oil still in the cylinder goes. What I normally do is pull the front pins, hoist/block the lift arms, loosen the gland nut, remove the lines, pull the rear pin and remove the cylinder. Then put the gland end over a bucket, remove the gland nut and drain the oil. This way you can control some of the mess but its still a messy job.

 

[Tazza]

What Tazza is saying is that you need to loosen the hydraulic lines to allow some air in so you can pull the piston out and let it out again when you put it back together. Doing the seals is a messy job with them still on the machine because it hard to control where the oil still in the cylinder goes. What I normally do is pull the front pins, hoist/block the lift arms, loosen the gland nut, remove the lines, pull the rear pin and remove the cylinder. Then put the gland end over a bucket, remove the gland nut and drain the oil. This way you can control some of the mess but its still a messy job.

OM got me exactly.
You can remove the front pins and lift the arms up to get the rams free, that's the easy part.
The problem is when you come to pulling the piston out. With the oil still behind it and no way for it to draw more oil in, it will hy hydraulically locked. It will fight you every step of the way as you try and pull it out. If you loosen the fittings at the back of the cylinder it will allow air in or oil out as required. Yes it is a messy job, but there is little you can do, you can only reduce the amount of mess.

 

[Katoh]

OM got me exactly.
You can remove the front pins and lift the arms up to get the rams free, that's the easy part.
The problem is when you come to pulling the piston out. With the oil still behind it and no way for it to draw more oil in, it will hy hydraulically locked. It will fight you every step of the way as you try and pull it out. If you loosen the fittings at the back of the cylinder it will allow air in or oil out as required. Yes it is a messy job, but there is little you can do, you can only reduce the amount of mess.

Gent's Thanks again for the information. Excuse my ignorance, when you remove the front pins, and have the cylinder disconnected from the arms. Once you remove the head bolt, with a pin spanner wont all the oil flow out of the front of the ram? once the oil is removed the piston should just slide out? again I'm new to this game, and not sure what to expect. Katoh

 

[Tazza]

Gent's Thanks again for the information. Excuse my ignorance, when you remove the front pins, and have the cylinder disconnected from the arms. Once you remove the head bolt, with a pin spanner wont all the oil flow out of the front of the ram? once the oil is removed the piston should just slide out? again I'm new to this game, and not sure what to expect. Katoh

You are right, the oil at the front will come out, but what about the oil behind the piston?
Think of it this way, did you ever play with a syringe as a kid without the needle? Put your finger over the end and pull the plunger back to make a poping sound? Air can be compressed and you can create a vaccum, liquid can not be compressed or used to create a vacuum.

 

[SkidRoe]

You are right, the oil at the front will come out, but what about the oil behind the piston?
Think of it this way, did you ever play with a syringe as a kid without the needle? Put your finger over the end and pull the plunger back to make a poping sound? Air can be compressed and you can create a vaccum, liquid can not be compressed or used to create a vacuum.

Yup, the old syringe game. My first encounter with the concept of vacuum when I was a kid. As far as controlling the mess, I use a couple of large, plastic cat litter trays at times like this (no cat litter in them, of course!) to try to capture/contain as much of the mess as possible. This is one of those jobs were planning your steps one by one before execution pays dividends and will cut down on the use of four letter words.

 

[Katoh]

Yup, the old syringe game. My first encounter with the concept of vacuum when I was a kid. As far as controlling the mess, I use a couple of large, plastic cat litter trays at times like this (no cat litter in them, of course!) to try to capture/contain as much of the mess as possible. This is one of those jobs were planning your steps one by one before execution pays dividends and will cut down on the use of four letter words.

Point Taken! Again thanks muchly for the invaluable advise, Defiantly have to crack one of the rear lines too. I have a more than ample supply of sawdust, this might just do the trick also. Cheers Katoh

 

[mahans7]

Yup, the old syringe game. My first encounter with the concept of vacuum when I was a kid. As far as controlling the mess, I use a couple of large, plastic cat litter trays at times like this (no cat litter in them, of course!) to try to capture/contain as much of the mess as possible. This is one of those jobs were planning your steps one by one before execution pays dividends and will cut down on the use of four letter words.

Thanks for the advice about the jackstands supporting the back of the machine with the lift arms up/cab up. My son (new to skidsteers) was driving my 743 last week up a shallow hill (after we degreased the engine/engine bay) without the bucket on the front to put the machine in the driveway. Somehow he got it rocking back and forth and the front wheels came off the ground and I thought it was going to flip over backward. He let go of the controls and it settled down but it really scared him. From now on I will always try to balance the machine with something on the front. I see now why SR has been mentioning the jackstands so often. Thanks again.

 

[SkidRoe]

Thanks for the advice about the jackstands supporting the back of the machine with the lift arms up/cab up. My son (new to skidsteers) was driving my 743 last week up a shallow hill (after we degreased the engine/engine bay) without the bucket on the front to put the machine in the driveway. Somehow he got it rocking back and forth and the front wheels came off the ground and I thought it was going to flip over backward. He let go of the controls and it settled down but it really scared him. From now on I will always try to balance the machine with something on the front. I see now why SR has been mentioning the jackstands so often. Thanks again.

The front wheels being off the ground is an everyday occurrence with these small machines. After a while, you become comfortable with it. But your son learned a valuable lesson: When the machine starts to bounce somewhat uncontrollably, let go of the sticks!! The M371 we had back in the '80's was horrible for that, especially since it was a clutch machine, and had no seat bar to brace your arms against.