Hydrostatic fluid change/purge

[bobbie-g]

I undoubtedly have water in the hydrostatic fluid in my new-to-me T180. Cloudy (milky), slight green tint. Here's what I plan to do: suck out all the fluid with a pump via the top of the reservoir (book does not mention a drain at the bottom), remove the large filter, drain it, and replace same filter, then refill reservoir with 10w30 oil. Run it for 10 minutes, run all cylinders to the end of their travel several times. Drain/refill with 10w30 and exercise cylinders again. Drain, change the small aluminum housing filters plus two large hydrostatic filters, then refill with Bobcat juice. How does that sound? The book lists the reservoir capacity as 5 gal and the total system as almost 10 gal, hence my assessment that I really should flush it a couple of times. Seems to me it's worth paying for that flush to get as much of the gunk out of there as I can. Any other way to get more of the old fluid out of there? Comments? ---RC

 

[Tazza]

Sounds like a plan. But you may need to do it a few times.
I personally drain the oil from the aux hydraulics. Run the machine at idle, operate the aux hydraulics still it starts to spit out air, shut down. Re-fill, drain/swap the main filter then run it. You may need to do that a few times though to get it all clean. I had to do that about 3 or 4 times on a 753 i had with water in the oil before i was happy with the colour.
Find where water got in too, there should be a rubber gasket on the filler and breather caps.
I wouldn't be too worried about the case drain filters, they pick up particles, not water. You should get away with opening them and cleaning out the brass filter and re-assembling them. I think they are around $50 each, your call though.
Good luck, but you NEED that water out, which you know. Fully stroke your rams multiple times while driving around, get the fresh oil EVERYWHERE you can, then drain and repeat till the colour is good.

 

[skidsteer.ca]

Sounds like a plan. But you may need to do it a few times.
I personally drain the oil from the aux hydraulics. Run the machine at idle, operate the aux hydraulics still it starts to spit out air, shut down. Re-fill, drain/swap the main filter then run it. You may need to do that a few times though to get it all clean. I had to do that about 3 or 4 times on a 753 i had with water in the oil before i was happy with the colour.
Find where water got in too, there should be a rubber gasket on the filler and breather caps.
I wouldn't be too worried about the case drain filters, they pick up particles, not water. You should get away with opening them and cleaning out the brass filter and re-assembling them. I think they are around $50 each, your call though.
Good luck, but you NEED that water out, which you know. Fully stroke your rams multiple times while driving around, get the fresh oil EVERYWHERE you can, then drain and repeat till the colour is good.

In this situation I like to warm the oil operating the machine, then hook a hose to the front coupler and pump out the tank with the hydraulic pump. Then disconnect the rams by pulling a pin at one end and removing the hoses, then use compressed air to move the rod in and out until as much of the old oil as possible is gone. Replace the filter.
You can also remove the main hoses at the wheel motors and let them drain. Be prepared to do this more then once. You may want to buy a cheap brand of oil to replace it with if the milkiness is quite noticeable as you might just be throwing it away too after the 1 st change. Also consider any hydraulic attachments that you have as duo for a flush too.
Ken

 

[bobbie-g]

In this situation I like to warm the oil operating the machine, then hook a hose to the front coupler and pump out the tank with the hydraulic pump. Then disconnect the rams by pulling a pin at one end and removing the hoses, then use compressed air to move the rod in and out until as much of the old oil as possible is gone. Replace the filter.
You can also remove the main hoses at the wheel motors and let them drain. Be prepared to do this more then once. You may want to buy a cheap brand of oil to replace it with if the milkiness is quite noticeable as you might just be throwing it away too after the 1 st change. Also consider any hydraulic attachments that you have as duo for a flush too.
Ken

Ken and Taryn: good comments, tnx. I have Quaker State oil (cheapest I could find at Walmart) for the flush operation, and I'm prepared to do this several times till the water's gone. I suspect that the entry point was the rag used in place of the filler cap, what do you think? Egads, some folks should not be allowed to own mechanical devices. I like the idea of letting the pump empty the system thru the aux connectors, I'll try that. I have not used this machine with any of my attachments, but thx for the reminder. I replace the bronze inserts in the aluminum housings every 1000 hrs as a matter of course, I think the inserts are about $25 ea. This T180 has the "normal" large hydrostatic filter (6661248) in the engine compartment, but also another almost that size buried down below the operator's feet (6686926?). Haven't yet pulled out the latter yet. ---RC

 

[coreya3212]

Ken and Taryn: good comments, tnx. I have Quaker State oil (cheapest I could find at Walmart) for the flush operation, and I'm prepared to do this several times till the water's gone. I suspect that the entry point was the rag used in place of the filler cap, what do you think? Egads, some folks should not be allowed to own mechanical devices. I like the idea of letting the pump empty the system thru the aux connectors, I'll try that. I have not used this machine with any of my attachments, but thx for the reminder. I replace the bronze inserts in the aluminum housings every 1000 hrs as a matter of course, I think the inserts are about $25 ea. This T180 has the "normal" large hydrostatic filter (6661248) in the engine compartment, but also another almost that size buried down below the operator's feet (6686926?). Haven't yet pulled out the latter yet. ---RC

Not wanting to hijack your thread Bobbie, you got good help from Ken and Tazza. Just a added question on the hydraulic dump. Using the Aux to empty, down to the level of loss of suction, is a good idea. What about when you are refilling the hyd oil. If you were to lose your suction at say 3 gallons left, if you added 4 gallons manually when empty, could you the use the aux hyd to suck on the remainder of fluid required to be full. I am asking because filling the hyd oil is painfully slow for me after I drain it. And my machine takes 27 gallons. Just thought if I could pour in 5 ( hypothetically) then suck the rest on, it would be helpful.

 

[Tazza]

Not wanting to hijack your thread Bobbie, you got good help from Ken and Tazza. Just a added question on the hydraulic dump. Using the Aux to empty, down to the level of loss of suction, is a good idea. What about when you are refilling the hyd oil. If you were to lose your suction at say 3 gallons left, if you added 4 gallons manually when empty, could you the use the aux hyd to suck on the remainder of fluid required to be full. I am asking because filling the hyd oil is painfully slow for me after I drain it. And my machine takes 27 gallons. Just thought if I could pour in 5 ( hypothetically) then suck the rest on, it would be helpful.

Bobby - I skipped the part that mentioned it was a T180, so changing the case drain filters is a MUST. Its ever so slightly possible that the rag was the entry point for the water
Cracking the lines at the cylinders is a good idea, but a real pain! It will however, get more oil/water out than any other way.
Corey - The good thing with how the system is designed is that the reserve tank is higher than the pump, so it won't simply loose its prime leaving a lot of fluid in the tank. Your idea isn't bad though. Drain all you can, then start and squirt the oil that is still in the pickup line and pump.
I believe you can get water absorbing filters too, but they will only absorb a small amount of moisture. So drain the oil a few times if required, and to get the last little bit, you may want to see if you can get one of these filters. I remember a user did this exact thing a year or two ago. Cheap filters and hooked them to the aux hydraulic lines. Also got some cheap(er) water absorbing ones too to get it super clean.

 

[skidsteer.ca]

Not wanting to hijack your thread Bobbie, you got good help from Ken and Tazza. Just a added question on the hydraulic dump. Using the Aux to empty, down to the level of loss of suction, is a good idea. What about when you are refilling the hyd oil. If you were to lose your suction at say 3 gallons left, if you added 4 gallons manually when empty, could you the use the aux hyd to suck on the remainder of fluid required to be full. I am asking because filling the hyd oil is painfully slow for me after I drain it. And my machine takes 27 gallons. Just thought if I could pour in 5 ( hypothetically) then suck the rest on, it would be helpful.

Bobbie
If you lift the loader all the way up, shut down the engine then fully lower the boom (likely can only be done if you have foot pedal controls, not sjc option) it will drain the lift cylinders. If your not going to drain them make sure all cylinders have the rods fully retracted as that side of the cylinders have a lower internal volume.
Corey
The skidsteers pump won't suck oil through the auxilary couplers, that whole loop is under pressure.
The only way to use the loaders pump to pump it in would be to connect a temporary tank to the inlet side of your hydraulic pump and dump your new oil in there. The machine would then suck it in and return it to its tank. I guess you could put a shutoff valve in the suction to the pump and then T a new suction line out the side between the pump and valve and stick it in your oil pail to suck the oil in. When its full, you would open the 1st valve and cap the extra line.
The Morgan hydrostatic skidders where setup with a extra pump and reservoir, you dump the new oil in the tank then the machine pumped it through a filter into the hydraulic system, a preventative measure to keep the system clean.
If you had a separate hydraulic pump and reservoir you could pump it in through the aux from another machine or hydraulic press pump etc.
How come it is so slow to just pour it in the machine, poor design or?

Ken

 

[bobbie-g]

Bobbie
If you lift the loader all the way up, shut down the engine then fully lower the boom (likely can only be done if you have foot pedal controls, not sjc option) it will drain the lift cylinders. If your not going to drain them make sure all cylinders have the rods fully retracted as that side of the cylinders have a lower internal volume.
Corey
The skidsteers pump won't suck oil through the auxilary couplers, that whole loop is under pressure.
The only way to use the loaders pump to pump it in would be to connect a temporary tank to the inlet side of your hydraulic pump and dump your new oil in there. The machine would then suck it in and return it to its tank. I guess you could put a shutoff valve in the suction to the pump and then T a new suction line out the side between the pump and valve and stick it in your oil pail to suck the oil in. When its full, you would open the 1st valve and cap the extra line.
The Morgan hydrostatic skidders where setup with a extra pump and reservoir, you dump the new oil in the tank then the machine pumped it through a filter into the hydraulic system, a preventative measure to keep the system clean.
If you had a separate hydraulic pump and reservoir you could pump it in through the aux from another machine or hydraulic press pump etc.
How come it is so slow to just pour it in the machine, poor design or?

Ken

Ken My T180 has a "lower the lift arms" knob to the right of the operator seat. If I put the arms up, turn the engine off, then lower the arms with that knob/valve, won't that just suck fluid into the rod end of the cylinder as the fluid is pushed out of the other end? Or should I have the system drained as best I can before lowering the arms? I'd have to work at that to figure out how to do it safely, but I do have an overhead beam/chain hoist in my shop. ---RC

 

[coreya3212]

Ken My T180 has a "lower the lift arms" knob to the right of the operator seat. If I put the arms up, turn the engine off, then lower the arms with that knob/valve, won't that just suck fluid into the rod end of the cylinder as the fluid is pushed out of the other end? Or should I have the system drained as best I can before lowering the arms? I'd have to work at that to figure out how to do it safely, but I do have an overhead beam/chain hoist in my shop. ---RC

Well, I do think the fill tube for y hyd is stupid, but if I found a funnel with a long flexible spout with a bigger than half inch ID, life would likely be better. I get it on the hyd aux , they both push against each other. Not a big deal. Keep helping Bobbie, I will live!! Thanks guys.

 

[jeffco]

Well, I do think the fill tube for y hyd is stupid, but if I found a funnel with a long flexible spout with a bigger than half inch ID, life would likely be better. I get it on the hyd aux , they both push against each other. Not a big deal. Keep helping Bobbie, I will live!! Thanks guys.

According to Wix filters the spin on filters are capable of holding 6 ounces of water in their pleats but greatly restricts oil flow. I had a similar problem with water, what I didn't realize was there was about 10 gallons of the 27 was water, when I drained the system you can imagine the cylinders were full of water. At that point I had no clue how much the cylinders held but after servicing with aw46 hydraulic oil (aprox 15 wt oil) and new filters I backed the machine on a couple 2 x 8 planks, started the machine and cycled all the hydraulics, shut the machine down and drained off another 4 gallons of water. I replaced the filters and the first day the oil was a little cloudy, not milky but after 15 or 20 hours of use in 3 days, the fluid is crystal clear. I took a sample and the reservoir is nice and clean. No water at all. So new filters once more before winter and I hope to be all set. My foot plate under the pedals had all but 3 bolts broken off so the water just ran right into the tank directly under it. I know corey can appreciate that front suction filter change. My machine lives instide now but I found out how quick the water can build up and I'm really glad when it froze last winter that it didn't crack something. It is a good idea to try to drain the cylinders because they can hold alot of water. Thats one thing I heard Tazza say over and over but just didn't get it done, who knows why. AW 46 is 28.00 for 5 gallons so 27 gallons is pricey, i want to protect that oil. There was no bleeding necessary, as soon as the machine started the lights went off and I slowly moved the drive levers forward and back and had instant response and immediately lifted the boom very slowly and after three or four cycles it had purged all air from the system and works nice and quiet. I check the sump regularly and there is no water. I really like my machine and I wonder how I did without one for so long. jeffco

 

[coreya3212]

According to Wix filters the spin on filters are capable of holding 6 ounces of water in their pleats but greatly restricts oil flow. I had a similar problem with water, what I didn't realize was there was about 10 gallons of the 27 was water, when I drained the system you can imagine the cylinders were full of water. At that point I had no clue how much the cylinders held but after servicing with aw46 hydraulic oil (aprox 15 wt oil) and new filters I backed the machine on a couple 2 x 8 planks, started the machine and cycled all the hydraulics, shut the machine down and drained off another 4 gallons of water. I replaced the filters and the first day the oil was a little cloudy, not milky but after 15 or 20 hours of use in 3 days, the fluid is crystal clear. I took a sample and the reservoir is nice and clean. No water at all. So new filters once more before winter and I hope to be all set. My foot plate under the pedals had all but 3 bolts broken off so the water just ran right into the tank directly under it. I know corey can appreciate that front suction filter change. My machine lives instide now but I found out how quick the water can build up and I'm really glad when it froze last winter that it didn't crack something. It is a good idea to try to drain the cylinders because they can hold alot of water. Thats one thing I heard Tazza say over and over but just didn't get it done, who knows why. AW 46 is 28.00 for 5 gallons so 27 gallons is pricey, i want to protect that oil. There was no bleeding necessary, as soon as the machine started the lights went off and I slowly moved the drive levers forward and back and had instant response and immediately lifted the boom very slowly and after three or four cycles it had purged all air from the system and works nice and quiet. I check the sump regularly and there is no water. I really like my machine and I wonder how I did without one for so long. jeffco

Yes i can appreciate the front filter change. Getting the pedals in and out is awful. I am afraid I am gonnahaf to get in there again though. I did the axle seals last Feb or March I think. 2 were leaking and 2 werent but i replaced all 4, the 2 that didnt leak, still didnt after the change, one that did leak, was still leaking after and it seems to have gotten worse. The one that still leaks, when i put the seal in, it was tough to seat. the rest, on little tap and the seam to seat and thentap them in flush. This one leaky bugger, hit one side and the other would pop out, almost like that axle may be just a hair out of round or something??? Dont know. But my floor cant take any more oil so I may bit the bullet and do it all again and hope it turns out. Just gonna do the one axle though. 27 gallons....i hate thinking about it.

 

[skidsteer.ca]

Ken My T180 has a "lower the lift arms" knob to the right of the operator seat. If I put the arms up, turn the engine off, then lower the arms with that knob/valve, won't that just suck fluid into the rod end of the cylinder as the fluid is pushed out of the other end? Or should I have the system drained as best I can before lowering the arms? I'd have to work at that to figure out how to do it safely, but I do have an overhead beam/chain hoist in my shop. ---RC

Bobbie
I forgot about the safety valve, but try that. After you lower the arms, start the engine and hit the boom down pedal. If the cyliders are empty it should take a couple seconds for the relief valve to start squealing while the pump filles the cylinder back up. If it squeals instantly you know it was able to suck oil back in. If thats the case remove the down pressure side of the cylinder hose and cap it off before you pull the red safety valve.
Ken

 

[jeffco]

Bobbie
I forgot about the safety valve, but try that. After you lower the arms, start the engine and hit the boom down pedal. If the cyliders are empty it should take a couple seconds for the relief valve to start squealing while the pump filles the cylinder back up. If it squeals instantly you know it was able to suck oil back in. If thats the case remove the down pressure side of the cylinder hose and cap it off before you pull the red safety valve.
Ken

Corey, I just hate the thought of those axle seals myself. I have at least one front leaking but the right rear is the worst one and the hardest to do. I park mine on a big sheet of 6 mil plastic with a whole 40 lb bag of speedi dry where the drips occur. I need the machine this winter but first thing in the spring I'm going for it and will do all 4 like you did. Now that I know the machine it may be little easier, you just need to know up front those pumps need to come out to even stand a chance. That was the first post I made on this site, axle seals, still not done but a lot of other things are so the machine is dependable, just leaks a little. Still working on the cab jack but it just doesn't seem that important right now. Is there any special pullers or wrenches I may need for that seal job, my shop is pretty well set up so for most of it I'm not to concerned, but the inner drive gears may be hard to get off the axle, did you find that hard to do? Any info because the service manual doesn't cover it real clear. Later, Jeffco

 

[coreya3212]

Corey, I just hate the thought of those axle seals myself. I have at least one front leaking but the right rear is the worst one and the hardest to do. I park mine on a big sheet of 6 mil plastic with a whole 40 lb bag of speedi dry where the drips occur. I need the machine this winter but first thing in the spring I'm going for it and will do all 4 like you did. Now that I know the machine it may be little easier, you just need to know up front those pumps need to come out to even stand a chance. That was the first post I made on this site, axle seals, still not done but a lot of other things are so the machine is dependable, just leaks a little. Still working on the cab jack but it just doesn't seem that important right now. Is there any special pullers or wrenches I may need for that seal job, my shop is pretty well set up so for most of it I'm not to concerned, but the inner drive gears may be hard to get off the axle, did you find that hard to do? Any info because the service manual doesn't cover it real clear. Later, Jeffco

Hey Jeffco. My exp on the seal job, take the cab right off, pull both covers, pump and teh foot pedals and that cover. Basically strip everything you can out of the way, cause tis hard enough to get at the rear sprockets. Yank drive motors blah blah. Special tools, not really that I recal. the Nut that holds the axle and sprocket is like 3 and 1/2 inch diameter. I dont have a wrench or socket that big, so I used a big pipe wrench to grip them. Good news is they arent really tight, so getting a hold and spinning the wheel broke the nts loose. There is a through bolt thru the nut and axle to keep them from backing off as well. Once the nuts are off the axle, I gave a yank on the wheel and they pulled off except one. Then I used a bottle jack as per tazza to get the one that wouldnt come. The axles are huge in thickness, I have seen grater axles half as thick. Very beefy. One bearing would come off the axle, so as long as you got a press you are in good shape.I think the manual states to pull the axle hubs or housings, but I didnt do that. Change the big O ring in the idler sprocket adjustment, if yours is extrenal like mine cause that was leeaking on mine on the ne side as well. Onl other thing I can think I would do different is using the aux hyd with a hose to evacuate the majority of the hyd oil. I re used mine. Couple new garbage can with lids to keep clean. I also pour it back in the maching through the front cover under the pedals before putting that plate back on, pour it through a orange raod cone with 5000 layers of filter cloth to strain out any contaminants as best I could. Let me know how much crap ou find stuck to the magnets...I found enough crap to fill my bolt bin!!

 

[jeffco]

Hey Jeffco. My exp on the seal job, take the cab right off, pull both covers, pump and teh foot pedals and that cover. Basically strip everything you can out of the way, cause tis hard enough to get at the rear sprockets. Yank drive motors blah blah. Special tools, not really that I recal. the Nut that holds the axle and sprocket is like 3 and 1/2 inch diameter. I dont have a wrench or socket that big, so I used a big pipe wrench to grip them. Good news is they arent really tight, so getting a hold and spinning the wheel broke the nts loose. There is a through bolt thru the nut and axle to keep them from backing off as well. Once the nuts are off the axle, I gave a yank on the wheel and they pulled off except one. Then I used a bottle jack as per tazza to get the one that wouldnt come. The axles are huge in thickness, I have seen grater axles half as thick. Very beefy. One bearing would come off the axle, so as long as you got a press you are in good shape.I think the manual states to pull the axle hubs or housings, but I didnt do that. Change the big O ring in the idler sprocket adjustment, if yours is extrenal like mine cause that was leeaking on mine on the ne side as well. Onl other thing I can think I would do different is using the aux hyd with a hose to evacuate the majority of the hyd oil. I re used mine. Couple new garbage can with lids to keep clean. I also pour it back in the maching through the front cover under the pedals before putting that plate back on, pour it through a orange raod cone with 5000 layers of filter cloth to strain out any contaminants as best I could. Let me know how much crap ou find stuck to the magnets...I found enough crap to fill my bolt bin!!

Those seals are gonna waite till spring or early summer. I also have a couple of small cracks at the top front corners under the front sump cover. Didn't want to grind and weld those with the sump open. they are only a inch long, one in each front corner right where bobcat did their original weld. I am going to give it a good steam cleaning and evaluate the whole machine in the next week or so and then gonna get ready for a no snow winter, why, because I am prepared!! Thanks for the tips on the exle seals, I just hate the thought of doing them but I can't keep drippin oil. Later,Jeffco

 

[coreya3212]

Those seals are gonna waite till spring or early summer. I also have a couple of small cracks at the top front corners under the front sump cover. Didn't want to grind and weld those with the sump open. they are only a inch long, one in each front corner right where bobcat did their original weld. I am going to give it a good steam cleaning and evaluate the whole machine in the next week or so and then gonna get ready for a no snow winter, why, because I am prepared!! Thanks for the tips on the exle seals, I just hate the thought of doing them but I can't keep drippin oil. Later,Jeffco

I know what you mean. My one leaking still is driving me mental.

 

[bobbie-g]

I know what you mean. My one leaking still is driving me mental.

Still going through the purge process on the hydrostatic/hydraulic oil. Took Ken's suggestion and grabbed a hose/coupler off my grapple and use it to let the pump empty the reservoir. Sweet. Been through two purges so far, just bought another 10 gallons of 10W30 to do a couple more. Then will add the 5 gallons of Bobcat stuff and then have half Bobcat oil/half 10W30. Best I can do without spending $80 on Bobcat oil for each purge. By my math, I will have only 4% of the original oil remaining after the four 10W30 purges and the final filling with Bobcat oil. I've been saving a sample of each cycle in clear water bottles so I can see the progression. I have a feeling from looking at the ugly green stuff initially in the system that there may actually have been algae growing in there. But I'm trying not to think about it. Anyhow, we're half way there. I'll report on final results in a few days. ---RC

 

[bobbie-g]

Still going through the purge process on the hydrostatic/hydraulic oil. Took Ken's suggestion and grabbed a hose/coupler off my grapple and use it to let the pump empty the reservoir. Sweet. Been through two purges so far, just bought another 10 gallons of 10W30 to do a couple more. Then will add the 5 gallons of Bobcat stuff and then have half Bobcat oil/half 10W30. Best I can do without spending $80 on Bobcat oil for each purge. By my math, I will have only 4% of the original oil remaining after the four 10W30 purges and the final filling with Bobcat oil. I've been saving a sample of each cycle in clear water bottles so I can see the progression. I have a feeling from looking at the ugly green stuff initially in the system that there may actually have been algae growing in there. But I'm trying not to think about it. Anyhow, we're half way there. I'll report on final results in a few days. ---RC

Completed four fillings with 10W30 oil, and put in Bobcat juice on the fifth cycle. From looking at samples of each purge cycle, I probably could have stopped after two purges and then filled with the Bobcat stuff. But I'm sure there was at least water in there (who knows what else), and I really wanted to get it clean. Otherwise Tazza would be on me big time Good news is the two case drain filters in the aluminum housings were pristine, no gunk or particles whatsoever. Also changed the large hydrostatic filter (6661248) and another one of similar size (located under the operators feet) called a charge filter as I remember it. The latter seems to only be used with the Selectable Joystick Control option. Closing out this thread, and will send a sample of the original fluid to the Centers for Disease Control to see what they think is in there..... ---RC

 

[Tazza]

Completed four fillings with 10W30 oil, and put in Bobcat juice on the fifth cycle. From looking at samples of each purge cycle, I probably could have stopped after two purges and then filled with the Bobcat stuff. But I'm sure there was at least water in there (who knows what else), and I really wanted to get it clean. Otherwise Tazza would be on me big time Good news is the two case drain filters in the aluminum housings were pristine, no gunk or particles whatsoever. Also changed the large hydrostatic filter (6661248) and another one of similar size (located under the operators feet) called a charge filter as I remember it. The latter seems to only be used with the Selectable Joystick Control option. Closing out this thread, and will send a sample of the original fluid to the Centers for Disease Control to see what they think is in there..... ---RC

Glad you got the oil to a state you are happy with it. At least you now know its done, you don't need to change it for another 1,000 hours.
Who me? keep complaining that you need to get your oil perfect? never *innocent look* Yeah, i know... That look really doesn't work, or so people tell me.