How steep of a slope can a T300 handle?

[Eric]

I have a hillside grading job on Tuesday and I was wondering how steep of a slope a T300, T250, or a Cat 287B can handle. It looks like a 1 to 1 or a 45 degree slope. I didnt measure it when I did the job walk but maybe I should have. Basicaly whats going on here is a new deck / carport over a hillside in Silver Lake, California. The contractor has already drilled and poured 12 caissons. My job is to remove all the caisson spoils from the hillside and grade the slope to about 45 degrees from what I guessed. The slope is kinda hilly due to spoils and natural terrain. Access to the sight is from the street above, where I will being loading the 10 wheel dump truck. The area is about 100 feet wide by 150 feet down the hill. Below this area is a retaining wall and a small street. At least I cant crash into a house down below! My plan is to cut / grade a path downward to within what I think grade will be. Then I will back down this path and begin cuting and grading upward and loading the truck. I know I cannot turn on this steep of a slope, so this is my plan. Im going to bring my 963 for pulling me back up the slope if I get stuck. What do you guys think??? Is there a better way using equipment that wont cost a small fortune? Can these machines handle it? Can they handle more than a 45 degree slope?

 

[owensge]

Eric, a T300 or T250 should be able to handle that kind of grade. I have very steep hills on my property with some 45 degree and greater grades. With my T200, I've cut trenches, fire breaks, and trails at very steep angles; the key is to take it slow.

 

[siduramaxde]

Eric, a T300 or T250 should be able to handle that kind of grade. I have very steep hills on my property with some 45 degree and greater grades. With my T200, I've cut trenches, fire breaks, and trails at very steep angles; the key is to take it slow.

I know the loader can handle the slope but I would be worried about starving the engine of oil due to the slope????
I have had my t200 on some steep slopes but I never stayed on the slope for longer than a minute or so. I know I see dozers working on steep slopes all the time and they have no problem. I would make sure you keep the engine side of the machine on the uphill side, especially of you don't have the bucket full.

 

[Bob Horrell]

I know the loader can handle the slope but I would be worried about starving the engine of oil due to the slope????
I have had my t200 on some steep slopes but I never stayed on the slope for longer than a minute or so. I know I see dozers working on steep slopes all the time and they have no problem. I would make sure you keep the engine side of the machine on the uphill side, especially of you don't have the bucket full.

I don't think you should have a problem. When I demoed a T300 I used it on a slope that I think was about 1 to 1 and had no problems (I didn't measure it). I currently have a S250 with the Loegering VTS tracks on it and I work pretty steep slopes here in California all the time. The only problem I have had is if the hill is really hard packed. Without grousers like a dozer has you slide around pretty easy if the ground is too hard and the hill is real steep. It doesn't sound like that should be a problem for you though. I have found that if the slope is too steep to grade uphill, then I grade down the hill and collect the spoils and carry them back up. It is suprising how well this works because the weight in the bucket really helps to balance out the normally heavy rear end of the bobcats. It feels a lot more like a dozer then. Good luck with the job, especially in this heat. Let us know how it turns out.

 

[Eric]

I don't think you should have a problem. When I demoed a T300 I used it on a slope that I think was about 1 to 1 and had no problems (I didn't measure it). I currently have a S250 with the Loegering VTS tracks on it and I work pretty steep slopes here in California all the time. The only problem I have had is if the hill is really hard packed. Without grousers like a dozer has you slide around pretty easy if the ground is too hard and the hill is real steep. It doesn't sound like that should be a problem for you though. I have found that if the slope is too steep to grade uphill, then I grade down the hill and collect the spoils and carry them back up. It is suprising how well this works because the weight in the bucket really helps to balance out the normally heavy rear end of the bobcats. It feels a lot more like a dozer then. Good luck with the job, especially in this heat. Let us know how it turns out.

Thanks for the info guys.
Im definately going to rent a T300 or T250 to do the job because of the hand and foot controls. I dont need to be goofing around with Cat controls on this technical of a job. Thats what Im used to and thats what I like. I ran a Cat skid steer for a day and I wasnt impressed with the controls. I think Cat controls are good for first time operators who havnt been programed on a Bobcat because its a little more common sense and you dont have to be coordinated with your feet.
Im a good operator. I can hop on any machine, run it for an hour or two, and look like I have been running it for a year or two. I personaly think learning how to operate a Bobcat skidsteer first made me a much better operator on everything else. I have spoken with operators that only run large equipment and they say they have a hard time running Bobcats.
Bob, can you turn a CTL on a 1 to 1 slope? There is no flat ground at the bottom of this hillside, just a retaining wall with a chain link fence. So if I grade down hill, then I wont be able to scoop up very much material.
I will be taking alot of photos for this job and I will post them on the forum and let you all know how it goes.

 

[Bob Horrell]

Thanks for the info guys.
Im definately going to rent a T300 or T250 to do the job because of the hand and foot controls. I dont need to be goofing around with Cat controls on this technical of a job. Thats what Im used to and thats what I like. I ran a Cat skid steer for a day and I wasnt impressed with the controls. I think Cat controls are good for first time operators who havnt been programed on a Bobcat because its a little more common sense and you dont have to be coordinated with your feet.
Im a good operator. I can hop on any machine, run it for an hour or two, and look like I have been running it for a year or two. I personaly think learning how to operate a Bobcat skidsteer first made me a much better operator on everything else. I have spoken with operators that only run large equipment and they say they have a hard time running Bobcats.
Bob, can you turn a CTL on a 1 to 1 slope? There is no flat ground at the bottom of this hillside, just a retaining wall with a chain link fence. So if I grade down hill, then I wont be able to scoop up very much material.
I will be taking alot of photos for this job and I will post them on the forum and let you all know how it goes.

Eric, I nevered turned a CTL on a slope that steep. The way I would tackle a job like this is grade downhill leaving the spoils in a row about 20 feet away from the wall at the bottom. I would then back down below the spoils (leave a slot to get through the first time) and pick up the spoils and transport to the top. Like you I always liked the bobcat control pattern with the foot pedals, however, the foot pedals are starting to bother my knees. I am 62 years old and the many years of racing motorcycles and associated knee injuries is starting to catch up to me. Having to keep them in a fixed position for a period of time really gets to be painful and I have to get out and walk around for a while. I have rented and demoed CTLs with the pilot controls and my knees didn't bother me. They were pretty easy to adapt to since the right pilot control is the same as the bucket control on my tractor/backhoe. So I have been thinking of selling my bobcat and going to the pilot controls. The only problem is that I haven't found another CTL that I like that has the same breakout force of the bobcat and that is important in a lot of what I do. I was really disappointed in the breakout force of a CAT 287. I thought it would be much greater. Good luck on your job. It sounds like it would be a fun one. I prefer the tough technical ones. Just moving dirt around can get boring, but the ones requiring planning and skill are more interesting, make you a better operator, and are more rewarding.

 

[Eric]

Eric, I nevered turned a CTL on a slope that steep. The way I would tackle a job like this is grade downhill leaving the spoils in a row about 20 feet away from the wall at the bottom. I would then back down below the spoils (leave a slot to get through the first time) and pick up the spoils and transport to the top. Like you I always liked the bobcat control pattern with the foot pedals, however, the foot pedals are starting to bother my knees. I am 62 years old and the many years of racing motorcycles and associated knee injuries is starting to catch up to me. Having to keep them in a fixed position for a period of time really gets to be painful and I have to get out and walk around for a while. I have rented and demoed CTLs with the pilot controls and my knees didn't bother me. They were pretty easy to adapt to since the right pilot control is the same as the bucket control on my tractor/backhoe. So I have been thinking of selling my bobcat and going to the pilot controls. The only problem is that I haven't found another CTL that I like that has the same breakout force of the bobcat and that is important in a lot of what I do. I was really disappointed in the breakout force of a CAT 287. I thought it would be much greater. Good luck on your job. It sounds like it would be a fun one. I prefer the tough technical ones. Just moving dirt around can get boring, but the ones requiring planning and skill are more interesting, make you a better operator, and are more rewarding.

Today went pretty well. I measured the slope and it is not a 1 to 1 as I had feared. Its a little less than 1 to 1 but I forgot exactly what I had measured. I will make sure I remember tomorrow.
I cut grade going down hill first with the tooth bucket. I was only able to get half scoops.Then I backed up the hill and loaded the dirt into my 10 wheeler. I then wanted to try and grade by cutting upward. I drove down the slope backward with a bucket full of dirt just to make sure I wouldnt just flip backward if I had an empty bucket. Everything felt okay untill I began dumping out some of the dirt in the bucket. It began to feel a little light in the front and that worried me. So I decided to put my 963's smooth bucket on and use it to grade. The smooth bucket has about a 1.3 cubic yard capacity. So as I graded up hill, I would leave about 1/4 to 1/3 of the bucket full of dirt to act as a counter weight for the front end. This worked realy well. If you where to do this with the tooth bucket, the amount of counter weight dirt that I felt comfortable with would not leave you much room for spoils.
That first attempt at seeing if I could grade uphill on that slope was kinda scary. Remember, Im accessing this job from the top of the hill and theres no place to turn around at the bottom of the slope. Its not like Im at the bottom of the hill and climbing upward and then seeing what the machine can do and if it gets kinda scary then I could simply go back down.
Below are some photos from the today.



View from above.


Street down below.


View from side.


View from below.



View from other side.










If you want to see all the photos just click on a photo and it will take you to the photobucket gallery.

 

[Tazza]

Today went pretty well. I measured the slope and it is not a 1 to 1 as I had feared. Its a little less than 1 to 1 but I forgot exactly what I had measured. I will make sure I remember tomorrow.
I cut grade going down hill first with the tooth bucket. I was only able to get half scoops.Then I backed up the hill and loaded the dirt into my 10 wheeler. I then wanted to try and grade by cutting upward. I drove down the slope backward with a bucket full of dirt just to make sure I wouldnt just flip backward if I had an empty bucket. Everything felt okay untill I began dumping out some of the dirt in the bucket. It began to feel a little light in the front and that worried me. So I decided to put my 963's smooth bucket on and use it to grade. The smooth bucket has about a 1.3 cubic yard capacity. So as I graded up hill, I would leave about 1/4 to 1/3 of the bucket full of dirt to act as a counter weight for the front end. This worked realy well. If you where to do this with the tooth bucket, the amount of counter weight dirt that I felt comfortable with would not leave you much room for spoils.
That first attempt at seeing if I could grade uphill on that slope was kinda scary. Remember, Im accessing this job from the top of the hill and theres no place to turn around at the bottom of the slope. Its not like Im at the bottom of the hill and climbing upward and then seeing what the machine can do and if it gets kinda scary then I could simply go back down.
Below are some photos from the today.



View from above.


Street down below.


View from side.


View from below.



View from other side.










If you want to see all the photos just click on a photo and it will take you to the photobucket gallery.

EER i wouldn't even attempt a job like that, that slope would scare the hell out of me! Just looking at the pictures i can imagine my machine rolling onto its back.
The angle looks insane, but its doing a really good job of it.
No power problems with cutting up such a steep grade? I take it your having no problems with it bogging down?
Well done!

 

[Bob Horrell]

EER i wouldn't even attempt a job like that, that slope would scare the hell out of me! Just looking at the pictures i can imagine my machine rolling onto its back.
The angle looks insane, but its doing a really good job of it.
No power problems with cutting up such a steep grade? I take it your having no problems with it bogging down?
Well done!

I have found there are no problems with the engine power or proper oiling etc when on slopes that steep. However, I have found that you must have the hydraulic tank full to prevent air in the lines.

 

[Bob Horrell]

I have found there are no problems with the engine power or proper oiling etc when on slopes that steep. However, I have found that you must have the hydraulic tank full to prevent air in the lines.

Also, I always use my 4in1 bucket on really steep slopes. They are a lot heavier than the normal buckets (I have a John Deere 78" 4n1 that I modified - holds a yard of material and weighs 1250lbs empty). The extra weight and the fact that you can dump dirt without raising the bucket really make them the ticket for steep hills. I turned down a job like yours one time because at the bottom was a sheer drop of about 75 to 100 feet and there was nothing to prevent you from going off of it if something went wrong. I just didn't want to take the chance. I gave it to a friend that has a D4 and is really nuts on hills with it. I really like to watch the guy work because of some of the insane things he does. It is like he spends a lot of his time on the ragged edge of its capabilities. He has a reputation for his hill work.

 

[Eric]

Also, I always use my 4in1 bucket on really steep slopes. They are a lot heavier than the normal buckets (I have a John Deere 78" 4n1 that I modified - holds a yard of material and weighs 1250lbs empty). The extra weight and the fact that you can dump dirt without raising the bucket really make them the ticket for steep hills. I turned down a job like yours one time because at the bottom was a sheer drop of about 75 to 100 feet and there was nothing to prevent you from going off of it if something went wrong. I just didn't want to take the chance. I gave it to a friend that has a D4 and is really nuts on hills with it. I really like to watch the guy work because of some of the insane things he does. It is like he spends a lot of his time on the ragged edge of its capabilities. He has a reputation for his hill work.

Thanks for all the feedback guys.

Well I measured the slope and its about 33 degrees or 12 inch run to a 8/9 inch rise. The job was a little challenging and fun. I hauled out about 50 cu. yards of dirt in two days and I was realy taking my time on this. I was not in a hurry at all. I left about 15 yards at the bottom of the hill because the contractor said that its good enough for now. He still has to redrill 3 caissons and dig grade beams to connect all the caissons. The reason he has to redrill some holes is because the 3 holes on the side are to close to the property line.

He told me that he had got dimensions for the layout from the plans. The inspector comes out and says, "wheres the survey for the property line". OOPS! No survey was done. I believe he said code requires a 6' clearance from property line. So he gets a survey done. The holes are only a 2' offset. OUCH! I then asked him why the plans where wrong. He said that the architect did not get a survey done for the plans and made one up so that he could get the ball rolling through plan check.

Well he forgot to mention this to the contractor.

Who do you think is at fault here?

I think the architect is at fault here, but if I was the contractor I would of had a survey done before I began layout and drilling. Heck, he ended up having to get a survey anyway. When ever Im doing work near a property line for walls or a structure I always get a survey. Now he has to fill the abandoned holes with slurry.
Here are some photos from the second day.

 

[Tazza]

Thanks for all the feedback guys.

Well I measured the slope and its about 33 degrees or 12 inch run to a 8/9 inch rise. The job was a little challenging and fun. I hauled out about 50 cu. yards of dirt in two days and I was realy taking my time on this. I was not in a hurry at all. I left about 15 yards at the bottom of the hill because the contractor said that its good enough for now. He still has to redrill 3 caissons and dig grade beams to connect all the caissons. The reason he has to redrill some holes is because the 3 holes on the side are to close to the property line.

He told me that he had got dimensions for the layout from the plans. The inspector comes out and says, "wheres the survey for the property line". OOPS! No survey was done. I believe he said code requires a 6' clearance from property line. So he gets a survey done. The holes are only a 2' offset. OUCH! I then asked him why the plans where wrong. He said that the architect did not get a survey done for the plans and made one up so that he could get the ball rolling through plan check. Well he forgot to mention this to the contractor.

Who do you think is at fault here?

I think the architect is at fault here, but if I was the contractor I would of had a survey done before I began layout and drilling. Heck, he ended up having to get a survey anyway. When ever Im doing work near a property line for walls or a structure I always get a survey. Now he has to fill the abandoned holes with slurry.
Here are some photos from the second day.

You have done well, i wouldn't have the guts to even attempt that job.
I know how stable my machine is on my driveway which isn't close to that grade, its awfully light on its feet. Mind you, its not a track loader, that would help things a bit too.

 

[Tigerotor77W]

You have done well, i wouldn't have the guts to even attempt that job.
I know how stable my machine is on my driveway which isn't close to that grade, its awfully light on its feet. Mind you, its not a track loader, that would help things a bit too.

Nice work. Is the T250 rented?

 

[Eric]

Nice work. Is the T250 rented?

Yes this machine was rented. As of right now I have no need for a track loader fuul time. This is the second time I have ever used one.