HELP! Flooded and won't start!

[cchardwick]

My 1737 is flooded and won't start! I've been trying for two days and it sounds like it doesn't want to even try to start. I put in new plugs too. It's got a weird carburator that is mounted about a foot below the exhaust manifold. I try choke, no choke w/full throttle, keep recharging the battery... any ideas?

 

[Tazza]

If it was me, i'd remove the plugs and crank the engine a little. Give each pot a snort of enging start and re-install the plugs and leads.
Try starting it, if it goes, you know its a carby problem, if not it will probably be a problem with the ignition side.

 

[cchardwick]

If it was me, i'd remove the plugs and crank the engine a little. Give each pot a snort of enging start and re-install the plugs and leads.
Try starting it, if it goes, you know its a carby problem, if not it will probably be a problem with the ignition side.

Sounds good, I'll give it a shot. The owners manual says in cold weather to drain the engine oil, heat it to 100 degrees and put it back in the engine when you are ready to start it. Wow, that's a pain in the but, who's gonna do that? I put a heat lamp under the bottom pointed up so it will heat the oil drain plug. Maybe by morning it will warm it up enough to start. It's real cold here, it's supposed to be -7 tonight and tomorrow a high of 14F. BRRRRRRR.

 

[skidsteer.ca]

Sounds good, I'll give it a shot. The owners manual says in cold weather to drain the engine oil, heat it to 100 degrees and put it back in the engine when you are ready to start it. Wow, that's a pain in the but, who's gonna do that? I put a heat lamp under the bottom pointed up so it will heat the oil drain plug. Maybe by morning it will warm it up enough to start. It's real cold here, it's supposed to be -7 tonight and tomorrow a high of 14F. BRRRRRRR.

That heat the oil thing was before they invented 0 30 artic engine oil, or get a magnetic oil pan heater for your air cooled engine. Both of which I highly recommend.
Maybe pull a plug, hook it back to the wire and see if you have spark when the motor comes up on compression stroke for that cylinder, or have you had it running since the electrical repairs
Ken

 

[cchardwick]

That heat the oil thing was before they invented 0 30 artic engine oil, or get a magnetic oil pan heater for your air cooled engine. Both of which I highly recommend.
Maybe pull a plug, hook it back to the wire and see if you have spark when the motor comes up on compression stroke for that cylinder, or have you had it running since the electrical repairs
Ken

Good idea about checking for a spark, I'll try that too. Almost sounds like it's not getting spark but after about 30 seconds cranking I smell gas so it could be bad flooding too. I had it running for about 8 hours before I went through and replaced hoses/belts/plugs/rotor/cap so it has been running recently (last week). Not sure if I can get an oil pan heater under the engine cause its bolted to the frame and right under the engine is the skid plate up tight against the engine. I supposed I could try a different oil, it's a water cooled engine BTW. I wonder if a Case/Skid steer/Bobcat dealer would have an oil heater that would replace your oil dipstick?

 

[Tazza]

Good idea about checking for a spark, I'll try that too. Almost sounds like it's not getting spark but after about 30 seconds cranking I smell gas so it could be bad flooding too. I had it running for about 8 hours before I went through and replaced hoses/belts/plugs/rotor/cap so it has been running recently (last week). Not sure if I can get an oil pan heater under the engine cause its bolted to the frame and right under the engine is the skid plate up tight against the engine. I supposed I could try a different oil, it's a water cooled engine BTW. I wonder if a Case/Skid steer/Bobcat dealer would have an oil heater that would replace your oil dipstick?

I really can't see oil temperature being a big problem with starting, it will make it crank slower as the oil will be thicker but thats about it.
Engines are always harder to start when cold, but -7 is just insane!!! no wonder it doesn't want to wake up. I would still expect it to fire a few times even if its cold, it just won't run very well till it warms a bit.
It may be a good idea to pull a lead off and attach an old spark plug to it and rest it on the engine for an earth, see if you do indeed get a spark.

 

[cchardwick]

I really can't see oil temperature being a big problem with starting, it will make it crank slower as the oil will be thicker but thats about it.
Engines are always harder to start when cold, but -7 is just insane!!! no wonder it doesn't want to wake up. I would still expect it to fire a few times even if its cold, it just won't run very well till it warms a bit.
It may be a good idea to pull a lead off and attach an old spark plug to it and rest it on the engine for an earth, see if you do indeed get a spark.

My battery doesn't seem to last very long. I can crank for about 20-30 seconds, pause for about 15 seconds, do that maybe three or four times and my battery drops off real fast and I have to put it on a charger. I had the battery tested at Checkers and it tested good. I'm thinking I need a beefy battery with these starting problems.

 

[skidsteer.ca]

My battery doesn't seem to last very long. I can crank for about 20-30 seconds, pause for about 15 seconds, do that maybe three or four times and my battery drops off real fast and I have to put it on a charger. I had the battery tested at Checkers and it tested good. I'm thinking I need a beefy battery with these starting problems.

-7 should not be that big of a deal for a gas engine if its in proper tune, -20 f or colder then I'd say artic oil or heat was a must. A 773 will start when its 0 degrees f with 10/30 in it. 0/30 or 0/40 be fine at -10 to 15.
If your is water cooled at some point it would be good to look up your engine in the www.zerostart.com catolog and see if they have a frost plug heater for it or get one for you lower rad hose.
offense, but I'm betting on lack of proper ignition, you just had points out, and plug wires off.
Can you mark TDC (top dead center, #1 cylinder) on your harmonic balancer and check for spark when the starter cranks over TDC. If the spark shows up at the wrong time to ignite the fuel or not at all, you will end up with a surplus of gas b4 to long.
Watch that you oil level has not come up, if you flood it bad enough the gas will leak by the ring and dilute you engine oil,
60 seconds of crank time should be more then enough, after all we are not talking about a Detroit diesel here.
Good luck
Ken

 

[skidsteer.ca]

-7 should not be that big of a deal for a gas engine if its in proper tune, -20 f or colder then I'd say artic oil or heat was a must. A 773 will start when its 0 degrees f with 10/30 in it. 0/30 or 0/40 be fine at -10 to 15.
If your is water cooled at some point it would be good to look up your engine in the www.zerostart.com catolog and see if they have a frost plug heater for it or get one for you lower rad hose.
offense, but I'm betting on lack of proper ignition, you just had points out, and plug wires off.
Can you mark TDC (top dead center, #1 cylinder) on your harmonic balancer and check for spark when the starter cranks over TDC. If the spark shows up at the wrong time to ignite the fuel or not at all, you will end up with a surplus of gas b4 to long.
Watch that you oil level has not come up, if you flood it bad enough the gas will leak by the ring and dilute you engine oil,
60 seconds of crank time should be more then enough, after all we are not talking about a Detroit diesel here.
Good luck
Ken

Btw, I did mean to say "no offense" in the previous post, my apologies
Ken

 

[Tazza]

Btw, I did mean to say "no offense" in the previous post, my apologies
Ken

Batteries don't like the cold much, they loose a lot of power when cold,
I'd still say the battery is sad though, you need to get it checked by a battery shop to confirm it. They put it under load and the voltage should not drop not just a multi-meter that confirms there is power.

 

[cchardwick]

Batteries don't like the cold much, they loose a lot of power when cold,
I'd still say the battery is sad though, you need to get it checked by a battery shop to confirm it. They put it under load and the voltage should not drop not just a multi-meter that confirms there is power.

I'm pretty sure I don't have frost plugs on my engine. Oh, and I didn't do the points yet cause I can't find them LOL. One other thing, I just got a new fan belt and my adjuster will barely get the belt tight so I tried a slightly smaller belt from Checkers. It was tough putting it on and I cranked it over once, didn't start, and I checked the belt and WOW was it tight. So I took my knife and cut it off and put the new factory belt back on. I took off the adjuster arm and did some grinding to get it to adjust properly but I was worried that the tight belt may have done some damage. It was just around the crankshaft and fan belts, not around water pump or alternator. After this little episode I tried to start it and it sputtered and died for about three starts and then would no longer start. I wouldn't think you could damage anything with a tight belt around the crankshaft by just turning over the engine, right?

 

[OldMachinist]

I'm pretty sure I don't have frost plugs on my engine. Oh, and I didn't do the points yet cause I can't find them LOL. One other thing, I just got a new fan belt and my adjuster will barely get the belt tight so I tried a slightly smaller belt from Checkers. It was tough putting it on and I cranked it over once, didn't start, and I checked the belt and WOW was it tight. So I took my knife and cut it off and put the new factory belt back on. I took off the adjuster arm and did some grinding to get it to adjust properly but I was worried that the tight belt may have done some damage. It was just around the crankshaft and fan belts, not around water pump or alternator. After this little episode I tried to start it and it sputtered and died for about three starts and then would no longer start. I wouldn't think you could damage anything with a tight belt around the crankshaft by just turning over the engine, right?

Since you haven't been able to get it to start since the tune up I'd check to make sure you got the spark plug wires on in the right order and that the timing isn't off. Timing that is advanced too much will cause hard cranking.
If you take all the spark plugs out does the starter turn it over easy or is it still slow?

 

[skidsteer.ca]

Since you haven't been able to get it to start since the tune up I'd check to make sure you got the spark plug wires on in the right order and that the timing isn't off. Timing that is advanced too much will cause hard cranking.
If you take all the spark plugs out does the starter turn it over easy or is it still slow?

One to 1 1/2 minutes is along time to crank a engine trying to start it. (unless of course your having trouble with it).
If you battery turns it good for the first 3 or 4 15 second long start attemps I'd say its fine. Can you get a running vehicle up next to it to boost it instead of your battery charger. That will help turn it over faster.
You need to check for spark, I can't see how the fan belts could cause the no start problem.
Are you certain the plug wires are in the correct order? You need to find your cylinder firing order (usually cast onto the top of the engine somewhere) and the timing mark on the harmonic balancer. If then engine turns over at a reasonable pace, and you have gas it should start,
The coughing and any backfiring out carb or exhaust is a sign of mixed up plug wires.
Perhaps you could up load a few photos of you engine into the media folder, if its water cooled it must have some frost plugs somewhere, the mfg needs that to cast the block
Ken

 

[Tazza]

One to 1 1/2 minutes is along time to crank a engine trying to start it. (unless of course your having trouble with it).
If you battery turns it good for the first 3 or 4 15 second long start attemps I'd say its fine. Can you get a running vehicle up next to it to boost it instead of your battery charger. That will help turn it over faster.
You need to check for spark, I can't see how the fan belts could cause the no start problem.
Are you certain the plug wires are in the correct order? You need to find your cylinder firing order (usually cast onto the top of the engine somewhere) and the timing mark on the harmonic balancer. If then engine turns over at a reasonable pace, and you have gas it should start,
The coughing and any backfiring out carb or exhaust is a sign of mixed up plug wires.
Perhaps you could up load a few photos of you engine into the media folder, if its water cooled it must have some frost plugs somewhere, the mfg needs that to cast the block
Ken

A tight fan belt won't cause damage.

 

[cchardwick]

A tight fan belt won't cause damage.

I finally got the skid steer running! I spent all morning working on it. First I checked for spark, I saw it had plenty of spark. So then I pulled all the plugs and let them dry for a couple hours, they were soaked in gasoline. Then I put them back in and tried to start it....just cranked, didn't even want to start. Then I took out the plugs and sprayed on some starting fluid and tried it again. This time I jumped it with my truck. It turned over about three times as fast as the battery on the skid steer and wanted to start for just a second and then wouldn't start. So then I took a plug out and noticed that I didn't smell gas on the plug so I added 10 gallons to the gas tanks and it started right up! Maybe I was out of gas, how embarassing LOL. It's funny I thought I had tons of gas in there and put in 15 gallons the last time I ran it. Maybe it uses more gas than I thought. Anyway, I ran it for about three hours and moved a ton of snow and froze my but off LOL. I plowed till I couldn't feel my hands and feet and I was geared up with Neoprene, MAN it's cold out there and the wind is wipping around real fast. I need to get some plexiglass on the windows and enclose the cab for weather like this!

 

[skidsteer.ca]

I finally got the skid steer running! I spent all morning working on it. First I checked for spark, I saw it had plenty of spark. So then I pulled all the plugs and let them dry for a couple hours, they were soaked in gasoline. Then I put them back in and tried to start it....just cranked, didn't even want to start. Then I took out the plugs and sprayed on some starting fluid and tried it again. This time I jumped it with my truck. It turned over about three times as fast as the battery on the skid steer and wanted to start for just a second and then wouldn't start. So then I took a plug out and noticed that I didn't smell gas on the plug so I added 10 gallons to the gas tanks and it started right up! Maybe I was out of gas, how embarassing LOL. It's funny I thought I had tons of gas in there and put in 15 gallons the last time I ran it. Maybe it uses more gas than I thought. Anyway, I ran it for about three hours and moved a ton of snow and froze my but off LOL. I plowed till I couldn't feel my hands and feet and I was geared up with Neoprene, MAN it's cold out there and the wind is wipping around real fast. I need to get some plexiglass on the windows and enclose the cab for weather like this!

I takes alot of gas to flood a engine when its cold out, glad to hear you got it going anyway.
Ken