Fuel pump? Problem 1996- 751 Pugeot engine

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Rick LaRock

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Mar 2, 2022
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Hello everyone, looking for help. My bobcat wouldn't start, noticed the fuel filter primer bulb was soft. Changed the fuel filter, primed the system, would only start for about 10 seconds. Primer bulb soft again. Reprimed, same thing. The only way to keep it running is to keep pumping the bulb while some one starts it. The fuel shutoff solenoid reads 12 volts and I can hear it click when starting. I'm assuming I have a bad lift pump which is integral to the fuel pump as they are one unit that is no longer available. Local dealer thinks they can send out the pump to get rebuilt, I would have them do all the work. Am I missing anything here?
 

foton

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Mar 1, 2018
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I could be wrong but is it possible for you to put in a electric fuel pump in leu of the mechanical pump? I would think it would be much cheaper. I know I have seen it on bobcat 743b done that way.
 
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Rick LaRock

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Mar 2, 2022
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Thanks for the reply!!! However I'm under the impression that is not possible as this engine has a mechanical pump that's driven and timed mechanically by the timing belt, so an electronic pump would flood the engine and cause damage
 

Tazza

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An electric pump shouldn't do damage if the diaphragm is not the cause of the issue. If it is, it will allow fuel into the pump and i think these pumps are tied to the motor, so it will thin your oil.

The injector pump is what pushes fuel to the injectors, so it can't actually flood the cylinders, but like i said, if the pump diaphragm is bad, it could pump fuel into the oil.

The hand primer should never be hard as such, as the lift pump is in the injector pump housing, so the hand primer is just to get fuel from the tank, through the filter and to the pump. It's even possible you have a restriction at the screen in the fuel tank, as it does run, i'd doubt it's a bad fuel pickup, but it is an option, as it will pull air into the system
 
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Rick LaRock

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Mar 2, 2022
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So if the diaphragm is ok, I could put a electric fuel pump in? If so is there one u would recommend? Maybe someone on here has had this issue and done this or got it fixed? I have a hard time believing I have a fuel obstruction as I can prime with the bulb no problem and keep it running by continually pumping the bulb. I would hate to give it to the dealer and have a huge bill- I just had a dealer offer me 12k for it outright for a trade on a new one (before this happened)
 

Ottercat

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Sep 15, 2021
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I had a similar porblem last summer with my 2001 New Holland LX 865. Long story short I ended up installing an inexpensive electric fuel pump just above and outside the fuel tank (even thought the pump directions stated it had to be located below the tank). It works fine. Good luck!
 

koko

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Jan 30, 2022
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I did the same as Ottercat. BTW do some research on the fuel system for that unit, My bobcat 863 has a screen/check valve at the end of the hose in the fuel tank. Some crud plugged the screen & the check valve did not work but I could still use the hand primer just as you can. some very long arms to pull that hose out.🤣
 

bobbie-g

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Mar 15, 2004
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577
Tazza and I have both had 751C rigs with the Pug engine. I had this problem when I first bought my machine, to load it up to get it to the dealer, one person was driving and the other was walking behind pinching the primer bulb all the way. It needed a new injector pump (and you are right, the lift pump is inside the injector pump). I would also suggest going with the external "booster" electric pump. I would put it before the fuel filter, as the Pug injector pumps seem to be pretty sensitive to crud. I'm guessing a garden variety electric fuel pump should do the trick. If you do end up removing the pump to have it rebuilt, scribe lines on the block and the pump to help timing when reassembling. Even a degree or two can make a difference. Also, the pickup tube and in-tank screen could be your issue. Try disconnecting the line coming into the primer bulb, adding some hose, and sticking that into a can of diesel and see if it keeps running. If so, then the issue is in the tank. Accessing the pickup assembly is challenging on the 751 with Pug. It can be done, but I never had to do that on mine, the dealer did it. :) ---Bobbie-G
 
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Rick LaRock

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Mar 2, 2022
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I disconnected the line at the bulb to eliminate the tank, no fuel ran out of the line that's still connected to the tank, removed the fuel cap, still nothing. I put some line on the end of the bulb with this line in a can of fuel, primed the system and it runs fine. Problem is in the tank. Anyone ever replace the fuel line and pickup in the tank on one of these? ? ? ? ? Thanks everyone so far for your responses !
 

foton

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Mar 1, 2018
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I would use a drill powered pump to pump diesel out of tank into buckets to make the tank lighter to remove. I have done a 743 that was easy, I do not know on yours. examine fuel make sure it is clean before putting it back in tank , maybe use a filter to strain it and use the pump to put it back in.
 

bobbie-g

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I am certain the tank on a 751C with Pug engine cannot be removed without pulling the engine first (somebody jump in if I'm wrong, it can happen). As I mentioned, I know replacing the pickup tube is difficult (I talked to the mechanic who did it on mine) but not impossible. Can't remember for sure, but there may be two rubber plugs in the top of the tank: one for the pickup tube and one for the return line from the injectors. I'm hazy on the last, so maybe only one rubber plug for the pickup line? Just tug gently on the line leading from under the engine to your primer bulb. Find where that line goes forward, and it will terminate in front of your engine (front meaning toward the seat) at the pickup fitting. I would advise buying a new rubber plug before you start, plus the pickup tube, the clamps, the checkvalve inside the tank and the screen. There will be a right angle metal fitting that pokes into the rubber plug. That metal fitting (1/4" dia or 5/16" dia???) will pry out with a screwdriver or whatever. All you have to do is find it, reach it, and then somehow work it loose and out. I think seeing it may be a dream, but again, I never had to find mine. Simple, huh? And while you're at it, I would replace the fuel hose from the metal fitting over to your primer bulb. Once you finally get through this, you don't wanna have to get back in there to replace a buck's worth of fuel line. And pse keep us posted, except for the words you will invent while trying to do this! :) ---Bobbie-G
 

dano5535

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Dec 31, 1969
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I just replaced the whole fule line in my 743B, from the check valve/screen in the tank, the line to the fuel pump, injectors pump, and injectors, cause it wouldn't do anything but idle. I also checked the injection pump, and finaly found the problem in the fuel pump. Made a new diaphragm and saved the Bobcat price of $206. Just went online and found the same pump from two places for $30. Guess I only saved $30 and shipping, and waiting.

Pulling the grommet and line out of the tank is the tough part. Lost the line into the tank in the process. I replaced the flex line with 1/4" polyethylene and baught the check valve on Amazon.
 
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Rick LaRock

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Mar 2, 2022
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7
I just replaced the whole fule line in my 743B, from the check valve/screen in the tank, the line to the fuel pump, injectors pump, and injectors, cause it wouldn't do anything but idle. I also checked the injection pump, and finaly found the problem in the fuel pump. Made a new diaphragm and saved the Bobcat price of $206. Just went online and found the same pump from two places for $30. Guess I only saved $30 and shipping, and waiting.

Pulling the grommet and line out of the tank is the tough part. Lost the line into the tank in the process. I replaced the flex line with 1/4" polyethylene and baught the check valve on Amazon.
So all I need is a bunch of 1/4" I'd fuel line and a check valve? What about a fuel line filter on the end of the line inside the tank? Can u share any part numbers? I'm struggling to find part numbers without visiting the dealer
 

dano5535

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Dec 31, 1969
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This is the check valve I used, from Amazon, it's a two for one: Amazon product ASIN B08ZYJW75C
I Assume you have a grommet that the fuel line goes through into the top of the tank. Try to pull the grommet and the fuel line out at the same time. If you pull the fitting out of the grommet before before you get the grommet out of the tank, line and check valve may come off. I guess it's no big deal, I just left mine in the tank.

Put the whole assembly together before you insert anything in the tank. Make sure the grommet is slid down off the top fitting, grease the grommet, and slide it into the tank then you can push the top fitting into the grommet.

Good luck!
 
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Rick LaRock

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Mar 2, 2022
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I can't even see where the tank is! I have the cab tilted up and can't even find the hose that goes to the primer bulb. Looks to me like the engine has got to come out. Can anyone verify that?
 

t_jones98

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Dec 13, 2021
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Rick, granted mine is taken apart, but the key is going to be to remove the air filter housing (and possibly the exhaust).
The tank sits down under the engine in the compartment that you see in the pic on the bottom. You're looking for two fittings in those two holes of the tank as shown.
Once you remove the air filter housing, you should be able to reach around the left side of the engine to get at them.
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275837440_688408745532263_8142612798236466225_n.jpg
 

TStaff

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Apr 5, 2022
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I can't even see where the tank is! I have the cab tilted up and can't even find the hose that goes to the primer bulb. Looks to me like the engine has got to come out. Can anyone verify that?
Rick,
I just replaced my fuel pickup line on my 751 Pug. It is not easy but you can do it without removing the engine. Most people say to lift the cab and reach over the hydro to get to the tank. I could not fit my arm through there. I suppose you could drop the hydro and reach it much better but I found I could reach it from the rear. Go around the right side of the engine above the battery and the flyweel cover and then bend straight down. Wont be able to see but you can feel it with your finger tips. I used a pair of vise grips to pull the old one out. Tape your new hose to the old and pull it through. Then assemble your pickup line and fuel screen and 90 to the hose. Getting it back in the tank is no fund and uncomfortable but once you get it started you can reach back there with channel locks or something and tap it in. Fuel pick up lines coming off are common on these and yours is probably off. You have to really reach to get it but can be done. For part numbers use https://www.bobcatpartsonline.com/#...-Starter (2.7 KW) (Nippondenso - 228000-5210). Good diagrams and numbers.
 
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