cold weather starting issues

Help Support SkidSteer Forum:

jim743

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 15, 2014
Messages
49
My 743B with the Kubota V1702 has never been a good starting engine. Needs glow plugs to start at 60 Fairenhiet. Was recently trying to get it going on the weekend, -10 F, sitting outdoors. I had the block heaters going, 2 x 400 watt in the block and a 1500 watt external heater. Was showing 160 on the guage, glow plugs on.......it was smoking black out the tail pipe, but, would just not fire. I am considering part of the issue may be the starter is not whipping over the engine quite fast enough due to the temp of the hydralic pump. This unit is equipt with the delco 28MT starter. I do see a nipondenso unit also available for this engine. Does anyone have any knowledge if the Nipondenso starter would crank this over at a faster rpm? Or if there is a better starter option available for this engine? The existing starter sounds OK, the battery is holding a good charge. I generally have it stored in an unheated shed, and usually starts without issue, with the block heaters on.
 
Is there a spot to install a heater in/on the tandem hydraulic pump? I see no spot for a magnetic heater or even a pad heater. Any suggestions? I guess another thought would be a lighter hydraulic oil. I have been using the recommended 10w30 motor oil. What would be a good year round replacement? Not really interested in changing fluids twice a year. I think a heater would be the best option.
 
just my 2 cents here, but if you already got 2 block heaters and external heater going and temps are reading over a 100 degree's
I don't thibnk your issue is really cold temps
as with things that warm they should be firing right up

I would maybe suggest a few things , like checking voltage at starter, and seeing if your getting the correct amount or not

if so, then, maybe I would be asking you about how many hours on motor and do you know what compression is at
low compression can cause hard starts

NOW as for your starter, if its getting correct voltage and struggles to spin motor over fast enough or well strong enough

they (OEM"S) some times offer lower gear starters as options
and if not OEM< maybe an aftermarket starter company would?

I know I have a few machines that are not happy starting in cold temps,(never did from new) so some machines are just that way

but again when you add block heaters(magnet oil pan heaters, or battery haters, that tended to solve the issues with cold starting on 99% of them any how

Having a battery heater, be it a headed wrap or a pad that goes under it can help some times, get voltage to starter faster and stronger,as cold batteries just do not crank the same as when there warm
so, you I guess could add one if you wish, but again, I'm not sure that is your issue here
I think you need to find out more on voltage readings and well, engine conditions

switching to thinner fluids, really ain;'t going to help you IMO< with you having block heaters already in effect here and temps up above a 100 at start up

all you might do is end up with more /new issues going to thinner oils, all the more so if motor has a lot of hours on it, wear and tear on bearings and such!
I find when you go to thinner fluids on older motors, you some times start to hear more knocks and such,a s less ???? thickens to oil to absorb some of the LOOSENESS in bearings and such, HAHA!
SO< some food for thought for you??
 
Not much of a Kubota guy, but hard starting at the temps you state, I'd suspect injection or engine issues. Could be as simple as a dying starter, injection timing , injectors or valve clearances or major like worn out piston rings.
Food for thought. I fired up yesterday -35*C. Not plugged in or shedded. Booster pack, glow plugs twice & fired up. It was a slow crank, lots of cold engine & cold hydraulic noise, but fired up none the less.
Full synthetic oils throughout the machine year round.
 
Last edited:
have a couple 743s, they will fire right up at -5 to -10C they crank longer but with the glow plugs fire right up, at lower temps we have a heater in the rad hose and with this on at _25C it fires right up, what are the hours and previous history?

both mine were poor starters when we picked them up, one had either used on it resulting in a cracked head. both needed rings as compression was low.

I would check compression, also the speed the starter kicks it over also the voltage and amps when cranking, this will give you a idea what to start with but more heating is not the answer
 
Engine was done 300-350 hr ago. Sleeves, pistons, rings, Bearings and a valve job. The compression was recently tested at about 240 PSI accross the board. I was expecting more, but could not find a spec.

Was having trouble getting it going at -22C. A few days later it warmed up to 0C. Had the 2- 400 watts heaters plug in for an hour or 2. Started without issue. I few days later at -5C and plugged for 1-2 hours, also started right up. It was turning cold again.....-28C, so put it in the shop on the -5C day. I remembered putting in some Lucas hydraulic leak sealer in, very thick stuff. Not helping out lowering the oil viscoscity. I will get the battery load tested. Might also pull the starter apart and look at the condition of the brushes & bushings.
I had a situation in the past where I bumped the stick over and engaged the aux circuit, when climbing out of the cab. Was very difficult getting started, as that circuit was dead headed. Thinking about that, I started thinking about the drag on a cold pump.
 
At -10 F your fuel may have gelled up. Check that fuel is getting to the injection pump. Do you have #1 or #2 diesel or a blend or a anti gel additive in it? Kubotas needs all of their glow plugs working when cold out. Even when warm some of them must work. Check voltage to them. Unhook them and use a test light from bat+ to the terminal on the plug light should light if plug is good. A ohm check is a better way check. Ohm a new plug then ohm the ones in the eng Try using a propane torch to heat the incoming air. Disconnect the intake hoes at the intake manifold and blow in to the intake with the torch as you crank it.
 
Last edited:
The last fill up was the regular diesel from Shell. I guess that would be #2? It had been smoking black out the pipe when I was cranking it. I am thinking it wouldn't do that if gelled??? I guess some anti gel additive wouldn't hurt. I had recently had all the glow plugs pulled and ohm tested. No to say that one hasn't died since. I will try the propane torch idea next time I have trouble. And try the shell V power diesel on the next fill.
 
-10F and sitting outdoors with #2 diesel only? You're a brave man. At that point it doesnt matter how many heaters you have going, your fuel needs to be treated at those temps.
 
also if you got water in the fuel, that could be turning in to ice and effecting flow and pressure to things
over time a lot of fuel stations get water in there tanks and sell it to folks unknowing, and over time a little here and there can build up in a tank, same with condensation, on where machine is parked and temps swings
when was fuel filter/s replaced last??
 
I did some read on the shell diesel. Doesn't specify if it is #1 or #2. It does state that "Shell Diesel grades have been specially formulated for year-round Canadian weather conditions". I did fill up in December, so wouldn't be summer fuel.

The filter is not very old. I will inspect the sediment bowl, and add some conditioner for good measure.
 
several years ago running my S590 at those temps after a half hour it bogged down and died, the fuel was from summer and jelled up, added additive to the fuel but had to wait till weather warmed up before it would start, after that I add some during winter, never had the issue again

thinking the diesel either jelled or water in the lines
 
Just a thought, even though you may show good voltage, I would try jumping the battery. Cold weather is tough on batteries. I had a 4 cylinder Isuzu in a Hydramac 20c, and it would crank, with black smoke but not fire. I jumped it and the cranking speed was faster. Fired right up. You need the amps to get the cranking speed up. It's an easy test!
 
In an earlier post mrbb suggested that you measure the voltage at the starter, I believe he meant for you to measure the voltage while cranking. On my 763 I had a crank issue which, root cause of the problem, was a rotted battery cable. Resistance in the battery, cables, or terminals will cause a drop in voltage at the starter. A characteristic of a starter motor is that, the slower it turns then, the higher the current draw. So, if there is resistance in the connection to the voltage source, then the voltage will drop at the starter, which will cause it to turn more slowly AND draw more current which increases the voltage drop.

Make sure you measure starter voltage referencing the starter case since the battery ground connection path is also a suspect.
 
Doing a voltage drop test for many people is a new thought, however it has been done for many years over 60 years from some of the manuals I have read,
The way I always do it for a starter issue is I that connect the the red lead at the positive termanal of the battery and the black lead at the other end of the battery lead of at the positive connection on the starter, now the meter is hooked up parallel to the batery cable, the meter should read zero volts with the key off, now crank the unit over and read the meter while cranking and you will see a voltage show up on the meter, if I remember correct it should be less then or about .5 volt.
This can be done in any circuit when trouble shooting voltage issues.
I have I have seen starters that have a bad ground show up in the same type of test, postive lead from the meter on the starters body and black lead on the grounding wire at the engine block or ground location on the block then moved from the ground on the engine to the ground terminal of the battery, some times I have found the issue in doing this by accidently touching a connection and finding it to be warm or hot when checking a cold engine.
 
Top