Bucket Cylinder Pin Repair

[OldMachinist]

Mike, I recently saw an old Atlas lathe like yours on craigslist for $900 with a bench and lots of accessories. I thought it was too old and never even went and looked at it since I didn't realize it would still be serviceable. I'll be on the lookout for another. Was that price too high?

Prices on lathes like most equipment vary greatly depending on where its located and what accessories/tooling are with it. On the east coast that Atlas might go for $400 but $1500 out west. Some areas of the country are virtual deserts when it comes to machine shop equipment.
I paid $1200 for my 16" x 57" South Bend lathe a few years ago. It was in good shape and came nicely equipted.
Make sure to take into consideration how you're going to move a machine after you buy it. My lathe weights 2700 lbs.

 

[Mikefromcny]

Prices on lathes like most equipment vary greatly depending on where its located and what accessories/tooling are with it. On the east coast that Atlas might go for $400 but $1500 out west. Some areas of the country are virtual deserts when it comes to machine shop equipment.
I paid $1200 for my 16" x 57" South Bend lathe a few years ago. It was in good shape and came nicely equipted.
Make sure to take into consideration how you're going to move a machine after you buy it. My lathe weights 2700 lbs.

$900 doesnt sound too bad, I paid $500 for mine with a bunch of tooling. I'd pay good money for a clean, well maintained lathe over a rusty piece of junk for cheap. Do some googling and I'm sure theres some sort of lathe buyers guide out there.

 

[mahans7]

$900 doesnt sound too bad, I paid $500 for mine with a bunch of tooling. I'd pay good money for a clean, well maintained lathe over a rusty piece of junk for cheap. Do some googling and I'm sure theres some sort of lathe buyers guide out there.

Thanks for the info guys, I learn so much from you. I'll keep looking and try to find a lathe in good shape, Atlas, South Bend, Logan.... Don't need another tool project right now until I finish the 743 and and a car.

 

[SkidRoe]

Thanks for the info guys, I learn so much from you. I'll keep looking and try to find a lathe in good shape, Atlas, South Bend, Logan.... Don't need another tool project right now until I finish the 743 and and a car.

The big lathe is a Demoor, made in Belguim. We have had it since the early '80's, back before CNC got really popular. We used to do a pile of overflow work for a couple of local machine shops, and had 3 employees working for us. This was in addition to a full time dairy operation. It does a lot of sitting now, but is still invaluable at times. Dad still does a lot of small lot fabricating and repair work for the locals. It is a heavy weight, I would estimate at least 5000 lbs, has a 7 horse motor on it, and it will turn a 1/4" cut (1/2" total) effortlessly. But with a lathe like this, you need tooling to match, everything is much bigger. The two other lathes are about the same size, 11" x 30". These are the size that I would recommend if you are looking for a machine to tackle 99% of general repairs. Both are tool room lathes. Dad's is a Harrison (British) that was bought new in 1974. Mine is a Lienen (German) that I picked up 2 years ago. Before that, I had an old 11x24 Rockwell Delta, that came out of a trade school in Detroit. My cousin bought 4 of them the same for $800 for the 4. I had to do some minor repair work on it, and switch it to a single phase motor, but it was a great little lathe. The other nice thing about lathes of this size is tooling is plentiful and relatively inexpensive. EBay is loaded with chucks, quick change tool posts, and carbide tooling for these machines. The old Bridgeport mill sees a pile of use too. Awesome old machine, having it in addition to the lathes, you can make just about anything. Rounding out the fab equipment, we have a 60 ton 8' brake press that we built ourselves and a 42 ton hydraulic Metalmaster iron worker. Dad builds a lot of loader buckets too.

 

[Mikefromcny]

The big lathe is a Demoor, made in Belguim. We have had it since the early '80's, back before CNC got really popular. We used to do a pile of overflow work for a couple of local machine shops, and had 3 employees working for us. This was in addition to a full time dairy operation. It does a lot of sitting now, but is still invaluable at times. Dad still does a lot of small lot fabricating and repair work for the locals. It is a heavy weight, I would estimate at least 5000 lbs, has a 7 horse motor on it, and it will turn a 1/4" cut (1/2" total) effortlessly. But with a lathe like this, you need tooling to match, everything is much bigger. The two other lathes are about the same size, 11" x 30". These are the size that I would recommend if you are looking for a machine to tackle 99% of general repairs. Both are tool room lathes. Dad's is a Harrison (British) that was bought new in 1974. Mine is a Lienen (German) that I picked up 2 years ago. Before that, I had an old 11x24 Rockwell Delta, that came out of a trade school in Detroit. My cousin bought 4 of them the same for $800 for the 4. I had to do some minor repair work on it, and switch it to a single phase motor, but it was a great little lathe. The other nice thing about lathes of this size is tooling is plentiful and relatively inexpensive. EBay is loaded with chucks, quick change tool posts, and carbide tooling for these machines. The old Bridgeport mill sees a pile of use too. Awesome old machine, having it in addition to the lathes, you can make just about anything. Rounding out the fab equipment, we have a 60 ton 8' brake press that we built ourselves and a 42 ton hydraulic Metalmaster iron worker. Dad builds a lot of loader buckets too.

Mahans7, Dont let a couple projects turn you away from a smokin deal on a lathe....lol. With me they always come when I can barely afford it. in '09 I was looking for a few years for a backhoe, full-size, construction grade, I had been looking for a few years. Always too expensive and not what I wanted. Going into winter I bought a fairly new snowmobile and phone...$$$ and figured I was safe since it was almost winter. A buddy a week later saying he found me a backhoe, and being an operator, it was his favorite backhoe of all time...and unheard of cheap. Ended up getting a loan for it and bought it. I havent seen one for sale at double what I paid for it. Moral of the story: be ready to buy!!! you might pay double for the same thing if you wait! lol

 

[SkidRoe]

Mahans7, Dont let a couple projects turn you away from a smokin deal on a lathe....lol. With me they always come when I can barely afford it. in '09 I was looking for a few years for a backhoe, full-size, construction grade, I had been looking for a few years. Always too expensive and not what I wanted. Going into winter I bought a fairly new snowmobile and phone...$$$ and figured I was safe since it was almost winter. A buddy a week later saying he found me a backhoe, and being an operator, it was his favorite backhoe of all time...and unheard of cheap. Ended up getting a loan for it and bought it. I havent seen one for sale at double what I paid for it. Moral of the story: be ready to buy!!! you might pay double for the same thing if you wait! lol

Mike is absolutely right, a lot of things happen when you are in the right place at the right time with cash available. My Rockwell Delta lathe came from an over heard conversation at a family reunion. What b-h did you get?

 

[Tazza]

Mike is absolutely right, a lot of things happen when you are in the right place at the right time with cash available. My Rockwell Delta lathe came from an over heard conversation at a family reunion. What b-h did you get?

Mahans - i can't remember exactly, but the newer models they are selling are 300mm swing and 900mm between centres.
I doesn't have a quick change gear box, but it's not hard moving the belt when required. The only work it has needed doing in the years i have owned it is the electric motor bearings died a few years back. Simple repair, going strong ever since.

 

[mahans7]

Mahans - i can't remember exactly, but the newer models they are selling are 300mm swing and 900mm between centres.
I doesn't have a quick change gear box, but it's not hard moving the belt when required. The only work it has needed doing in the years i have owned it is the electric motor bearings died a few years back. Simple repair, going strong ever since.

Ok, I'm going to keep looking for a lathe in the 11" X 30" size or larger. I'm not going to look at the mini-lathes. You guys give me so many different ideas on projects and things that can be made. Keep the info coming. Thanks again.

 

[Mikefromcny]

Ok, I'm going to keep looking for a lathe in the 11" X 30" size or larger. I'm not going to look at the mini-lathes. You guys give me so many different ideas on projects and things that can be made. Keep the info coming. Thanks again.

Its a Ford 555, also good for loading dead bobcats. lol

 

[melli]

Its a Ford 555, also good for loading dead bobcats. lol

OT - are those old Ford's easy to work on (and reasonably bulletproof) Mike? Is that a 4x4? While mulling over options on a land clearing/landscaping machine a backhoe was at the top of my list. Saw an old ford and dismissed it out-of-hand... I too appreciate the info on lathes....whenever I get my act together and get a real garage, I plan to get one...

 

[SkidRoe]

OT - are those old Ford's easy to work on (and reasonably bulletproof) Mike? Is that a 4x4? While mulling over options on a land clearing/landscaping machine a backhoe was at the top of my list. Saw an old ford and dismissed it out-of-hand... I too appreciate the info on lathes....whenever I get my act together and get a real garage, I plan to get one...

I believe the 555 is the industrial version of he 4610 farm tractor. We have run Fords on the farm for years, and we have a 4610, bought it new in 1989. They are pretty much bullet proof, parts are plentiful, and they are easy to work on. They should be available with 4WD, although Mike's looks like a 2WD model.

 

[mahans7]

I believe the 555 is the industrial version of he 4610 farm tractor. We have run Fords on the farm for years, and we have a 4610, bought it new in 1989. They are pretty much bullet proof, parts are plentiful, and they are easy to work on. They should be available with 4WD, although Mike's looks like a 2WD model.

Mike, that is one messed up skidsteer.

 

[Mikefromcny]

Mike, that is one messed up skidsteer.

Mahans, that bobcat was actually fixed up and sold lol. I think it was a 500 or 600, it was missing the bob tach and foot pedals, otherwise everything else was there. The 555 set it on the single axle trailer, with no brakes and towed home 10 miles with a jeep cherokee hahaha... Backhoes are verry handy. The Fords are a little difficult to work on. Mine doesnt have a componetized drivetrain, meaning if the shuttle or torque converter need work, you have to yank the engine to get at them. I have a case 585c off road forklift that is componetized. It has a driveshaft connecting the shuttle/torque converter to the trans axle. You can have the shuttle on the ground in an hour without touching the engine. The 555 in my opinion is one of the best buys for an old hoe. The older 4500/5500/550 had roller chains to swing the boom, the 555 just has cylinders, also has just over 180 degrees of swing. Hydraulics are strong and fast. The loader breakout capacity is almost 10k lbs and the hoe can pick 2500 lbs, and will drag the whole machine if you grab ahold of something that wont move. The ford diesels of that era are known for cavitated cylinders in the engine, hence mine being cheap. Still starts easy and runs good, just keep the antifreeze topped off and shes good. The front end is very light, putting lots of weight on the rear tires which helps it out in plowing snow and going areas other hoes wont go. No regrets buying it and will probably have it forever.

 

[SkidRoe]

Mahans, that bobcat was actually fixed up and sold lol. I think it was a 500 or 600, it was missing the bob tach and foot pedals, otherwise everything else was there. The 555 set it on the single axle trailer, with no brakes and towed home 10 miles with a jeep cherokee hahaha... Backhoes are verry handy. The Fords are a little difficult to work on. Mine doesnt have a componetized drivetrain, meaning if the shuttle or torque converter need work, you have to yank the engine to get at them. I have a case 585c off road forklift that is componetized. It has a driveshaft connecting the shuttle/torque converter to the trans axle. You can have the shuttle on the ground in an hour without touching the engine. The 555 in my opinion is one of the best buys for an old hoe. The older 4500/5500/550 had roller chains to swing the boom, the 555 just has cylinders, also has just over 180 degrees of swing. Hydraulics are strong and fast. The loader breakout capacity is almost 10k lbs and the hoe can pick 2500 lbs, and will drag the whole machine if you grab ahold of something that wont move. The ford diesels of that era are known for cavitated cylinders in the engine, hence mine being cheap. Still starts easy and runs good, just keep the antifreeze topped off and shes good. The front end is very light, putting lots of weight on the rear tires which helps it out in plowing snow and going areas other hoes wont go. No regrets buying it and will probably have it forever.

That is interesting about the cavitated cylinder walls. I know of two tractors in our local area (a 5000 and a our old 4000) that popped pin holes in the bottoms of the cylinder walls. Our local engine machine shop that fixed both blocks explained the roots of these hole being from poorly prepared sand castings, where a reinforcement wire was protruding and embedded itself in the cylinder wall, causing a thin spot. Cavitation / corrosion took it from there. Both of these tractors dated from the early 70's and were about 15 years old when they had their issue. We had the affected cylinder bored out and sleeved. If this contributed to you getting your tractor cheap, good on you. Sounds like the seller over reacted, IMHO. If your tractor was going to have this issue, it should have done it already.

 

[melli]

Mahans, that bobcat was actually fixed up and sold lol. I think it was a 500 or 600, it was missing the bob tach and foot pedals, otherwise everything else was there. The 555 set it on the single axle trailer, with no brakes and towed home 10 miles with a jeep cherokee hahaha... Backhoes are verry handy. The Fords are a little difficult to work on. Mine doesnt have a componetized drivetrain, meaning if the shuttle or torque converter need work, you have to yank the engine to get at them. I have a case 585c off road forklift that is componetized. It has a driveshaft connecting the shuttle/torque converter to the trans axle. You can have the shuttle on the ground in an hour without touching the engine. The 555 in my opinion is one of the best buys for an old hoe. The older 4500/5500/550 had roller chains to swing the boom, the 555 just has cylinders, also has just over 180 degrees of swing. Hydraulics are strong and fast. The loader breakout capacity is almost 10k lbs and the hoe can pick 2500 lbs, and will drag the whole machine if you grab ahold of something that wont move. The ford diesels of that era are known for cavitated cylinders in the engine, hence mine being cheap. Still starts easy and runs good, just keep the antifreeze topped off and shes good. The front end is very light, putting lots of weight on the rear tires which helps it out in plowing snow and going areas other hoes wont go. No regrets buying it and will probably have it forever.

Thanks for the info Mike. 10k with the loader...wow. Bet that could drag around my shipping container...lol.

 

[Mikefromcny]

Thanks for the info Mike. 10k with the loader...wow. Bet that could drag around my shipping container...lol.

The story on it is: I bought it from an owner operator who primarily runs big excavators and dozers. he told me "its using antifreeze, and its too small, its like digging with a spoon" lol lol. It hydro locked on that cylinder a week after I bought it, yanked the head off expecting a blown head gasket. Small pinhole about 1" from deck. Affected cylinder's piston was all beatup looking, could see the top ring. Installed new head gasket and buttoned her back up. Ran some block sealer through it, uses a gallon every few running hours. Has good oil pressure and coolant doesnt make it in the oil. When it starts it will skip for a second till the middle cylinder kicks in (201 ci 3 cylinder). It will start at 10F just using the manifold heater. It has the "blue" motor so it was replaced at some point, probably for the same reason, machine had 4000 hours on it. When (if) it ever quits, I'll bore and sleeve all the cylinders. A local truck/equipment shop is owned by a guy who was a master tech at ford equipment dealer where mine came from new. After mentioning my cavitation problem, he said he got to know the 201 ci REAL well when he worked there..lol. Apparently a lot of them did it, I know of a handful of 555c and 555d 4 cylinder models with cavitated cylinders as well. I've also seen a perkins in a white 2-105 farm tractor do it and a couple of cat 3208s do it as well. I'd bet most of it was from not regularly changing coolant/using the additive. 10,000lbs is the absolute most it could do, I think a 20ft container is around 5000lbs. It will pick the back wheels off the ground.

 

[mahans7]

The story on it is: I bought it from an owner operator who primarily runs big excavators and dozers. he told me "its using antifreeze, and its too small, its like digging with a spoon" lol lol. It hydro locked on that cylinder a week after I bought it, yanked the head off expecting a blown head gasket. Small pinhole about 1" from deck. Affected cylinder's piston was all beatup looking, could see the top ring. Installed new head gasket and buttoned her back up. Ran some block sealer through it, uses a gallon every few running hours. Has good oil pressure and coolant doesnt make it in the oil. When it starts it will skip for a second till the middle cylinder kicks in (201 ci 3 cylinder). It will start at 10F just using the manifold heater. It has the "blue" motor so it was replaced at some point, probably for the same reason, machine had 4000 hours on it. When (if) it ever quits, I'll bore and sleeve all the cylinders. A local truck/equipment shop is owned by a guy who was a master tech at ford equipment dealer where mine came from new. After mentioning my cavitation problem, he said he got to know the 201 ci REAL well when he worked there..lol. Apparently a lot of them did it, I know of a handful of 555c and 555d 4 cylinder models with cavitated cylinders as well. I've also seen a perkins in a white 2-105 farm tractor do it and a couple of cat 3208s do it as well. I'd bet most of it was from not regularly changing coolant/using the additive. 10,000lbs is the absolute most it could do, I think a 20ft container is around 5000lbs. It will pick the back wheels off the ground.

Mike, that's amazing. I've seen BCs that looked much better than that one being parted out. Didn't realize how tough those Ford tractors are. Thanks for the info, I'm becoming a much more informed observer of heavy equipment.

 

[Hotrod1830]

Mike, that's amazing. I've seen BCs that looked much better than that one being parted out. Didn't realize how tough those Ford tractors are. Thanks for the info, I'm becoming a much more informed observer of heavy equipment.

There is a coolant additive you can add to coolant to minimize cavitation wear. Fleetguard and Ford(motorcraft) both have one(same thing?) Nitrite. Its a diesel thing, and the additive should be used in any diesel with conventional coolant. I use it in my powerstroke. Heard too many stories of what happens if you dont.