bobcat 763 fuel shut off solenoid problem

[cnv65stang]

I have searched everywhere and can't find a problem like mine... i am sure I am just missing it, but anyway... I have a 1997 bobcat 763 f series. The fuel shut off solenoid will not engage when the key is turned. If I turn the key to ACC then walk behind and push the solenoid over to the run position it holds, starts, runs, and shuts off perfectly. But I have to do this every time i start it, with the only exception being if it stalls... then it will start back as long as the key doesn't turn off. I replaced the fuel shut off solenoid, but it is still doing the same thing. Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

 

[SkidRoe]

Your shut off solenoid contains two circuits: pull and hold. From what you described, your hold circuit is working fine, but your pull circuit is not.
When you first turn on your ignition switch, both circuits should activate. After a short period, a timer in the pull circuit will time out and release the pull circuit, allowing the hold to take over. The reason for this is it takes a larger force to pull the solenoid than to hold it in place, and the pull coil will eventually over heat and burn out if powered continuously.
There are a few different possibilities for your problem here:
1) the pull coil is defective
2) the pull timer is defective
3) there is a break somewhere in the pull circuit wiring
Any of these can be diagnosed with a multi-meter, by probing the connector to the fuel shut off solenoid.
HTH - SR

 

[cnv65stang]

Your shut off solenoid contains two circuits: pull and hold. From what you described, your hold circuit is working fine, but your pull circuit is not.
When you first turn on your ignition switch, both circuits should activate. After a short period, a timer in the pull circuit will time out and release the pull circuit, allowing the hold to take over. The reason for this is it takes a larger force to pull the solenoid than to hold it in place, and the pull coil will eventually over heat and burn out if powered continuously.
There are a few different possibilities for your problem here:
1) the pull coil is defective
2) the pull timer is defective
3) there is a break somewhere in the pull circuit wiring
Any of these can be diagnosed with a multi-meter, by probing the connector to the fuel shut off solenoid.
HTH - SR

That makes sense, can you walk me through how to test for the three scenarios you listed? Wiring is NOT my strong suit... lol.. Thanks!

 

[SkidRoe]

That makes sense, can you walk me through how to test for the three scenarios you listed? Wiring is NOT my strong suit... lol.. Thanks!

The 3 wires at the connector will be pull, hold, and ground. Set your multimeter to the appropriate 12vdc setting, ground the black probe to a known good ground (eg. negative battery post, etc) and probe the 3 connections immediately after turn the ignition on. You should find battery power at two of the three connections if everything is working normally, with the pull power dropping out after a few seconds. If this is the case, your shut-off solenoid is bad. This is the most likely scenario.
If you find no power at the pull connection at any time, this indicates either a timer or wiring problem. This will take some wire tracing to determine for sure, or a possible replacement of the timer.
HTH - SR

 

[cnv65stang]

The 3 wires at the connector will be pull, hold, and ground. Set your multimeter to the appropriate 12vdc setting, ground the black probe to a known good ground (eg. negative battery post, etc) and probe the 3 connections immediately after turn the ignition on. You should find battery power at two of the three connections if everything is working normally, with the pull power dropping out after a few seconds. If this is the case, your shut-off solenoid is bad. This is the most likely scenario.
If you find no power at the pull connection at any time, this indicates either a timer or wiring problem. This will take some wire tracing to determine for sure, or a possible replacement of the timer.
HTH - SR

Thanks. I will try it out tomorrow when Im back at the farm.

 

[Tazza]

Thanks. I will try it out tomorrow when Im back at the farm.

You are in good hands already, the way i test them is:
You have three wires, black, red, white.
I sort of hot wire it, run a wire from the black to ground, then run a wire from the +ve batery terminal to the red wire and then the white wire. One should make the solenoid snap back. If it doesn't, the coil is bad.
I can't remember what wire is pull and what is hold, you have a 50/50 chance of getting it right the first time
Now, for the pull coil, do not leave this wired up, it will burn the coil up. The hold coil is made to stay powered, not the pull one.

 

[cnv65stang]

You are in good hands already, the way i test them is:
You have three wires, black, red, white.
I sort of hot wire it, run a wire from the black to ground, then run a wire from the +ve batery terminal to the red wire and then the white wire. One should make the solenoid snap back. If it doesn't, the coil is bad.
I can't remember what wire is pull and what is hold, you have a 50/50 chance of getting it right the first time
Now, for the pull coil, do not leave this wired up, it will burn the coil up. The hold coil is made to stay powered, not the pull one.

Thanks.... i need all the help i can get.

 

[farmshop]

Thanks.... i need all the help i can get.

Depending on the machine they have a timer in the pull circuit that goes bad. It is kind of a extra harness between the solenoid and the harness

 

[cnv65stang]

Depending on the machine they have a timer in the pull circuit that goes bad. It is kind of a extra harness between the solenoid and the harness

When I checked the pigtail going to the solenoid, i didnt get anything on the draw side... is that the timer or ?

 

[farmshop]

When I checked the pigtail going to the solenoid, i didnt get anything on the draw side... is that the timer or ?

If you aren't getting power I would check fuses and relays if your solenoid did go bad it maybe burned a fuse

 

[Bobcatdan]

If you aren't getting power I would check fuses and relays if your solenoid did go bad it maybe burned a fuse

Pull in voltage is very quick, you won't catch it with a meter. Swap the fuel shut off relay with a different one. Try replacing the timer modual if it has one. That's the only real test for it. Otherwise busted wire for the pull in circuit. I'd also check the wiring at the key switch. The dash wiring is not sealed at all and usually corroided.

 

[cnv65stang]

Pull in voltage is very quick, you won't catch it with a meter. Swap the fuel shut off relay with a different one. Try replacing the timer modual if it has one. That's the only real test for it. Otherwise busted wire for the pull in circuit. I'd also check the wiring at the key switch. The dash wiring is not sealed at all and usually corroided.

I went out to test yesterday evening and the battery is completely dead. It is a new battery from about 2 weeks ago. I am getting a draw on it somewhere too....

 

[7LBSSMALLIE]

I went out to test yesterday evening and the battery is completely dead. It is a new battery from about 2 weeks ago. I am getting a draw on it somewhere too....

skid said it best. one thing he forgot. is worth a mention. is length of pull. on linkage from solenoid. sceniro. cust replaced solenoid (note . notice its adjustable) if not set properly pull will not function. been stymied here more than once. so its worth a look.

 

[7LBSSMALLIE]

skid said it best. one thing he forgot. is worth a mention. is length of pull. on linkage from solenoid. sceniro. cust replaced solenoid (note . notice its adjustable) if not set properly pull will not function. been stymied here more than once. so its worth a look.

onto batt draw. yea this is what is causing elect issues. forget everthing else until you fix heart of sys. a . find draw if you want further help we will also need defined parameters as in 763 F with or without boss. 763 G(triangle headlights on board computer) if an F remove neg batt cable place test ight between post and lug if draw will be lit. turn off switches till it goes out if that work pull fuses till light goes out this will isolate circuit. usally what I find here is one or more the diodes . in alt rectifier bridge have failed. conclusion test alt.

 

[cnv65stang]

onto batt draw. yea this is what is causing elect issues. forget everthing else until you fix heart of sys. a . find draw if you want further help we will also need defined parameters as in 763 F with or without boss. 763 G(triangle headlights on board computer) if an F remove neg batt cable place test ight between post and lug if draw will be lit. turn off switches till it goes out if that work pull fuses till light goes out this will isolate circuit. usally what I find here is one or more the diodes . in alt rectifier bridge have failed. conclusion test alt.

I figured out the solenoid not holding... it was a burned fuse inside the timer relay.... feel stupid for not finding it right off the bat... THANKS TO EVERYONE FOR ALL THE HELP! I am still chasing the slow draw on the battery though... can't seem to find it..

 

[gwilkrrs]

I figured out the solenoid not holding... it was a burned fuse inside the timer relay.... feel stupid for not finding it right off the bat... THANKS TO EVERYONE FOR ALL THE HELP! I am still chasing the slow draw on the battery though... can't seem to find it..

Where was this fuse located? I am chasing the same problem

 

[cnv65stang]

Where was this fuse located? I am chasing the same problem

Follow the wires coming from the fuel shutoff solenoid. .. on my f series 763 there is a pigtail between the main wiring harness and the solenoid. As i understand it, that is the timer. There is a waterproof cap inline, remove it and there is a 25 amp car type flat fuse in it. Something else is going on with mine because it blew again this week. Horrible to say, but i might keep replacing the fuse... they are cheap and easy to switch out.

 

[cnv65stang]

Where was this fuse located? I am chasing the same problem

Hope this helps... if not message me back... maybe we can find it.

 

[bobcat324]

Your shut off solenoid contains two circuits: pull and hold. From what you described, your hold circuit is working fine, but your pull circuit is not.
When you first turn on your ignition switch, both circuits should activate. After a short period, a timer in the pull circuit will time out and release the pull circuit, allowing the hold to take over. The reason for this is it takes a larger force to pull the solenoid than to hold it in place, and the pull coil will eventually over heat and burn out if powered continuously.
There are a few different possibilities for your problem here:
1) the pull coil is defective
2) the pull timer is defective
3) there is a break somewhere in the pull circuit wiring
Any of these can be diagnosed with a multi-meter, by probing the connector to the fuel shut off solenoid.
HTH - SR

Awesome, finally your explanation gave me some insight, am having same starting issue on my 463.

 

[bobcat324]

The 3 wires at the connector will be pull, hold, and ground. Set your multimeter to the appropriate 12vdc setting, ground the black probe to a known good ground (eg. negative battery post, etc) and probe the 3 connections immediately after turn the ignition on. You should find battery power at two of the three connections if everything is working normally, with the pull power dropping out after a few seconds. If this is the case, your shut-off solenoid is bad. This is the most likely scenario.
If you find no power at the pull connection at any time, this indicates either a timer or wiring problem. This will take some wire tracing to determine for sure, or a possible replacement of the timer.
HTH - SR

Mine is falling under the IInd cader, No power at 1 of the term(red) out of the three (red, white, black) whereas there is power at both red n white before the timer pigtail (checked fuse, its intact) so i suspect the timer is bad. Planning to replace it tomorrow, its a 156 C$ insanely priced.