Bob Cat 863 Turbo Diesal G series Troubleshoot help?

[Kathy]

Long story, but it's been parked at a friends house since I took it away from the person I went into business with. It was a bad plan, I don't know how to operate it, but am good with paperwork... The ex business partner knew how to operate it and was good with cash... As in putting it in his pocket I'm trying to sell the dratted thing.... but there is a major malfunction. So, here is the malfunction. The bucket does not go up and down. There is a light, in the upper left corner that is supposed to come on when the magnetic safety switch in the seat bar is engaged. This light does NOT come on when the switch is engaged. It goes through what I presueme to be a power on self test. Everything beeps and flashes. I ran the directions for Codes stored in memory... it has no codes stored. I presumed a safety switch malfunction, so replaced it. Nope... problem NOT solved. I'm only getting 8.5 volts power feed to the magnetic switch. I don't want to over ride that feed by throwing 12 volts at it... cause I don't know what is supposed to be there. Any suggestions, including a wiring diagram would be greatly appreciated. I want to broom it and put my money in something useful. TIA, Kathy

 

[500K_773]

Kathy, I don't mean to offend you with my suggestion, but just got to cover the obvious. Once the safety seat bar is in the down position, three lights should light up on the upper left panel you mentioned. The light for the hydraulics will not come on until you push the button where the light is. Once again, I feel bad if this is something you already tried. I will not have access to my shop manual and wiring diagrams until Monday night. Keep us updated. If you don't get it figured out before Monday night, I'll dig through my manuals.

 

[Kathy]

Kathy, I don't mean to offend you with my suggestion, but just got to cover the obvious. Once the safety seat bar is in the down position, three lights should light up on the upper left panel you mentioned. The light for the hydraulics will not come on until you push the button where the light is. Once again, I feel bad if this is something you already tried. I will not have access to my shop manual and wiring diagrams until Monday night. Keep us updated. If you don't get it figured out before Monday night, I'll dig through my manuals.

Oh, you didn't offend me... you stated the obvious. Which is sometimes very useful. In this case, however.... My friend's husband and son... DO know how to operate the dratted thing. My brother... ASE certified master mechanic... also knows how to operate it. I didn't just crawl in the cage and decide I knew how to run it, but I wish I had, as your suggestion would be AWESOME I'm always so happy to give a "no charge" to a little old lady that had a towed in, no start.... that she tried to start in reverse... Sadly, this isn't the case. My brother wants to bleed off the hydraulics, pick the bucket up with his wrecker, back it onto my trailor... and take it to "warm up..." I see flaws in this plan, including bent metal parts... I'd bet money that I have a bad ground. The problem is, while I KNOW it's a twelve volt system, both my brother and I are troubleshooting from an automotive perspective. Which means I can play with my dvom, until the cows come home, but I don't actually KNOW what is supposed to be on any circut. I KNOW that all the fuses are good, presuming that the only fuse box is in the foot area of the cage. It worked fine, until we had an ice storm... then it ceased to function. I'm a bit frustrated, so hope I don't sound nasty... but, my buyers are getting tired of waiting... and I'd like to sell it.

 

[StuZ]

There should only be 8.5 Volts at that point. Turn the key on, and see what lights flash and how many times, and the first 6 numbers of your serial # would help too.

 

[StuZ]

There should only be 8.5 Volts at that point. Turn the key on, and see what lights flash and how many times, and the first 6 numbers of your serial # would help too.

This should help you. It is out of a 963 manual, but it should be the same. BICS SYSTEM Inspecting The BICS Controller (Engine STOPPED - Key ON) AVOID INJURY OR DEATH The Bobcat Interlock Control System (BICS) must deactivate the lift, tilt and traction drive functions. If it does not, contact your dealer for service. DO NOT modify the system. W-2151-0394 Figure 60-90-1 Sit in the operator's seat. Turn key ON (Standard Panel), press RUN / ENTER Button (Deluxe Panel, lower the Seat Bar and disengage the parking brake pedal. Press the PRESS TO OPERATE LOADER Button. Three BICS lights (Items 1, 2, & 3) [Figure 60-90-1] [PRESS TO OPERATE LOADER, SEAT BAR, and LIFT & TILT VALVE] on left instrument panel should be ON [Figure 60-90-1] . Raise the Seat Bar fully. All four BICS lights (Items 1, 2, 3, & 4) [Figure 60-90-1] [PRESS TO OPERATE LOADER, SEAT BAR, LIFT & TILT VALVE and TRACTION*] on left instrument panel should be OFF [Figure 60-90-1] . NOTE: Record what lights are blinking (if any) and number of light flashes. See Troubleshooting Guide on page 60-90-4. Inspecting Deactivation Of The Auxiliary Hydraulics System (Engine STOPPED - Key ON) Sit in the operator's seat, lower the Seat Bar, and press the PRESS TO OPERATE LOADER Button. Press the auxiliary hydraulics FLOW Button. The auxiliary FLOW Button light will come ON. Raise the Seat Bar. The light should be OFF. Inspecting The Seat Bar Sensor (Engine RUNNING) Sit in the operator's seat, lower the seat bar, engage the parking brake pedal and fasten the seat belt. Start the engine and operate at low idle. Press the PRESS TO OPERATE LOADER Button. While raising the lift arms, raise the Seat Bar fully. The lift arms should stop. Repeat using the tilt function. Inspecting The Traction Lock (Engine RUNNING) Fasten the seat belt, disengage the parking brake pedal, press the PRESS TO OPERATE LOADER Button and raise the Seat Bar fully. Move the steering levers slowly forward and backward. The TRACTION lock should be engaged. Lower the Seat Bar. Press the PRESS TO OPERATE LOADER Button. Engage the parking brake pedal and move the steering levers slowly forward and backward. The TRACTION lock should be engaged. NOTE: * The TRACTION light on the left instrument panel will remain OFF until the engine is started, the PRESS TO OPERATE LOADER Button is pressed and the parking brake is disengaged. Inspecting The Lift Arm By-Pass Control Raise the lift arms 6 feet (2 meters) off the ground. Stop the engine. Turn the lift arm by-pass control knob clockwise 1/4 turn. Pull up and hold the lift arm by-pass control knob until the lift arms slowly lower. Additional Inspection For Loaders With Advanced Hand Controls (AHC) Sit in the operator's seat and fasten the Seat Belt. Lower the Seat Bar, start the engine and press the PRESS TO OPERATE LOADER Button. Raise the lift arms about 6 feet (2 meters) off the ground. Turn key OFF (Standard Panel), press the STOP Button (Deluxe Panel, and wait for the engine to come to a complete stop. Turn key ON (Standard Panel), press RUN /ENTER Button (Deluxe Panel. Press the PRESS TO OPERATE LOADER Button, move the left hand control toward the operator. The lift arms should not lower. Move the right hand control away from the operator. The bucket (or attachment) should not tilt forward. Troubleshooting Chart The following troubleshooting guide is provided for assistance in locating and correcting BICS system problems. It is recommended that these procedures be done by authorized Bobcat Service Personnel only. Check for correct function after adjustments, repairs or service. Failure to make correct repairs or adjustments can cause injury or death. W-2004-1285 Troubleshooting Guide The following list shows the effects which can happen to the loader, and the probable causes when the BICS System lights are off or flashing and associated service code. See the Diagnostics, Service Codes Contents, Page 60-01 for service codes. * Normal BICS operating voltage is less than the electrical system voltage. If voltage is more, the circuit is shorted to system voltage. Notes: (1) If the System Activated and/or seat bar sensor circuits are open, the corresponding lights will be OFF. If one of the lights stay OFF, check the circuit for continuity. (2) Flashing patterns will repeat every 3.25 seconds. ∙ Error On - Shorted to battery stuck relay, faulty wiring. ° Error Off -Shorted to ground or blown fuse, faulty wiring, faulty open relay, no voltage from relay to controller.

 

[Kathy]

This should help you. It is out of a 963 manual, but it should be the same. BICS SYSTEM Inspecting The BICS Controller (Engine STOPPED - Key ON) AVOID INJURY OR DEATH The Bobcat Interlock Control System (BICS) must deactivate the lift, tilt and traction drive functions. If it does not, contact your dealer for service. DO NOT modify the system. W-2151-0394 Figure 60-90-1 Sit in the operator's seat. Turn key ON (Standard Panel), press RUN / ENTER Button (Deluxe Panel, lower the Seat Bar and disengage the parking brake pedal. Press the PRESS TO OPERATE LOADER Button. Three BICS lights (Items 1, 2, & 3) [Figure 60-90-1] [PRESS TO OPERATE LOADER, SEAT BAR, and LIFT & TILT VALVE] on left instrument panel should be ON [Figure 60-90-1] . Raise the Seat Bar fully. All four BICS lights (Items 1, 2, 3, & 4) [Figure 60-90-1] [PRESS TO OPERATE LOADER, SEAT BAR, LIFT & TILT VALVE and TRACTION*] on left instrument panel should be OFF [Figure 60-90-1] . NOTE: Record what lights are blinking (if any) and number of light flashes. See Troubleshooting Guide on page 60-90-4. Inspecting Deactivation Of The Auxiliary Hydraulics System (Engine STOPPED - Key ON) Sit in the operator's seat, lower the Seat Bar, and press the PRESS TO OPERATE LOADER Button. Press the auxiliary hydraulics FLOW Button. The auxiliary FLOW Button light will come ON. Raise the Seat Bar. The light should be OFF. Inspecting The Seat Bar Sensor (Engine RUNNING) Sit in the operator's seat, lower the seat bar, engage the parking brake pedal and fasten the seat belt. Start the engine and operate at low idle. Press the PRESS TO OPERATE LOADER Button. While raising the lift arms, raise the Seat Bar fully. The lift arms should stop. Repeat using the tilt function. Inspecting The Traction Lock (Engine RUNNING) Fasten the seat belt, disengage the parking brake pedal, press the PRESS TO OPERATE LOADER Button and raise the Seat Bar fully. Move the steering levers slowly forward and backward. The TRACTION lock should be engaged. Lower the Seat Bar. Press the PRESS TO OPERATE LOADER Button. Engage the parking brake pedal and move the steering levers slowly forward and backward. The TRACTION lock should be engaged. NOTE: * The TRACTION light on the left instrument panel will remain OFF until the engine is started, the PRESS TO OPERATE LOADER Button is pressed and the parking brake is disengaged. Inspecting The Lift Arm By-Pass Control Raise the lift arms 6 feet (2 meters) off the ground. Stop the engine. Turn the lift arm by-pass control knob clockwise 1/4 turn. Pull up and hold the lift arm by-pass control knob until the lift arms slowly lower. Additional Inspection For Loaders With Advanced Hand Controls (AHC) Sit in the operator's seat and fasten the Seat Belt. Lower the Seat Bar, start the engine and press the PRESS TO OPERATE LOADER Button. Raise the lift arms about 6 feet (2 meters) off the ground. Turn key OFF (Standard Panel), press the STOP Button (Deluxe Panel, and wait for the engine to come to a complete stop. Turn key ON (Standard Panel), press RUN /ENTER Button (Deluxe Panel. Press the PRESS TO OPERATE LOADER Button, move the left hand control toward the operator. The lift arms should not lower. Move the right hand control away from the operator. The bucket (or attachment) should not tilt forward. Troubleshooting Chart The following troubleshooting guide is provided for assistance in locating and correcting BICS system problems. It is recommended that these procedures be done by authorized Bobcat Service Personnel only. Check for correct function after adjustments, repairs or service. Failure to make correct repairs or adjustments can cause injury or death. W-2004-1285 Troubleshooting Guide The following list shows the effects which can happen to the loader, and the probable causes when the BICS System lights are off or flashing and associated service code. See the Diagnostics, Service Codes Contents, Page 60-01 for service codes. * Normal BICS operating voltage is less than the electrical system voltage. If voltage is more, the circuit is shorted to system voltage. Notes: (1) If the System Activated and/or seat bar sensor circuits are open, the corresponding lights will be OFF. If one of the lights stay OFF, check the circuit for continuity. (2) Flashing patterns will repeat every 3.25 seconds. ∙ Error On - Shorted to battery stuck relay, faulty wiring. ° Error Off -Shorted to ground or blown fuse, faulty wiring, faulty open relay, no voltage from relay to controller.

Thank you ever so much... I'm printing this, and will play with it tomorrow. I'll also get you the first six of the VIN. Error Off-- it thinks no error condition exists? Correct? Also the controller... it could be in the display panal... or it COULD BE ANYWHERE... I'm going to presume that it's either in the display panal... OR there is an ECM... SOMEWHERE ELSE that feeds it. So, before I charge off... dvom in hand... if the ECM is located elsewhere... can you give me an approx location? Eg... in a vehicle... the ECM is frequently located behind the right front kick panal... but that doesn't mean it's always located there.... So, a general direction if it isn't in the display panal? THANK YOU, Kathy

 

[500K_773]

Thank you ever so much... I'm printing this, and will play with it tomorrow. I'll also get you the first six of the VIN. Error Off-- it thinks no error condition exists? Correct? Also the controller... it could be in the display panal... or it COULD BE ANYWHERE... I'm going to presume that it's either in the display panal... OR there is an ECM... SOMEWHERE ELSE that feeds it. So, before I charge off... dvom in hand... if the ECM is located elsewhere... can you give me an approx location? Eg... in a vehicle... the ECM is frequently located behind the right front kick panal... but that doesn't mean it's always located there.... So, a general direction if it isn't in the display panal? THANK YOU, Kathy

Sounds like you are very mechanically inclined and will have the problem figured out shortly. You mentioned it working until an ice storm, could water have got behind the panel shorting out the active hydraulics button?
You could have your friend with the wrecker hook it up to your trailer then winch the loader backwards on the trailer without damage. If the hyraulic pressure release vavle was open, the buck should just float. The load is safe to tow, at leat to 2 or 3 MPH for a short distance. Just up on the trailer wouldn't hurt it at all.

 

[Kathy]

Sounds like you are very mechanically inclined and will have the problem figured out shortly. You mentioned it working until an ice storm, could water have got behind the panel shorting out the active hydraulics button?
You could have your friend with the wrecker hook it up to your trailer then winch the loader backwards on the trailer without damage. If the hyraulic pressure release vavle was open, the buck should just float. The load is safe to tow, at leat to 2 or 3 MPH for a short distance. Just up on the trailer wouldn't hurt it at all.

Update on Bob Cat... Ok, I took my father (industrial electrician) off to trouble shoot the thing... Observations from dad... He had voltage and pin out... hot 8v, center 7.6v, and a common, which he has determined is not a ground, but is a floating system? He took the old switch off to work with him, and he and a buddy determined that when the switch was closed, the voltage on the center post should drop to Y amount, but they aren't sure of the value of Y. The pedal on the right does not work. The pedal on the left DOES work. It goes in reverse. Foreward is locked out. The bucket will curl down, but will not go up. He has determined that the guts are under the cage, but would like directions for raising the cage. He is also interested in how many celonoids control the lock out, and if possible a wireing diagram. Thanks, Kathy

 

[500K_773]

Update on Bob Cat... Ok, I took my father (industrial electrician) off to trouble shoot the thing... Observations from dad... He had voltage and pin out... hot 8v, center 7.6v, and a common, which he has determined is not a ground, but is a floating system? He took the old switch off to work with him, and he and a buddy determined that when the switch was closed, the voltage on the center post should drop to Y amount, but they aren't sure of the value of Y. The pedal on the right does not work. The pedal on the left DOES work. It goes in reverse. Foreward is locked out. The bucket will curl down, but will not go up. He has determined that the guts are under the cage, but would like directions for raising the cage. He is also interested in how many celonoids control the lock out, and if possible a wireing diagram. Thanks, Kathy

Sorry for the delay, had a travel day Monday and have been busy since then. I looked in the manual, but not much help. Bobcat has a test tool to plug in and test the safety bar circuit, no actual values listed in the manual. My machine is a 2001 773 G-model so the wiring diagrams may not be much use on your 800 series machine. I do have some troubleshooting information that could help you. E-mail me (address in my profile) and I could send you some PDF's.
Bobcat did mention that if the safety switch was good and the traction light does not light, the controller could be bad. This sounds like it COULD possibly be your problem because you have limited use of the system. The Bobcat controller is the "guts" that you mentioned underneath the cab. Your owner's manual will have instructions for raising the cab. It should be located behind the seat. If not, I'll give you a brief overview. You will need to block the back of the loader with jackstands. This will prevent the loader from tipping backwards when the cab moves the center of gravity backwards. Then remove the two nuts at the front corners of the operator's cab (just inside the door). Lift the grab handle and bottom of the operator cab slowly until the cab is all the way up and the latching mechanism engages.
Before I replaced the controller (probably pretty high priced) I'd take it to the dealer for diagnosis/troubleshooting. You can inspect the plugs and wires going into the controller to ensure all connnections are tight. You may even want to take the controller out and make sure it is completely dry since you said the problem started after an ice storm. Good luck and be safe.

 

[500K_773]

Sorry for the delay, had a travel day Monday and have been busy since then. I looked in the manual, but not much help. Bobcat has a test tool to plug in and test the safety bar circuit, no actual values listed in the manual. My machine is a 2001 773 G-model so the wiring diagrams may not be much use on your 800 series machine. I do have some troubleshooting information that could help you. E-mail me (address in my profile) and I could send you some PDF's.
Bobcat did mention that if the safety switch was good and the traction light does not light, the controller could be bad. This sounds like it COULD possibly be your problem because you have limited use of the system. The Bobcat controller is the "guts" that you mentioned underneath the cab. Your owner's manual will have instructions for raising the cab. It should be located behind the seat. If not, I'll give you a brief overview. You will need to block the back of the loader with jackstands. This will prevent the loader from tipping backwards when the cab moves the center of gravity backwards. Then remove the two nuts at the front corners of the operator's cab (just inside the door). Lift the grab handle and bottom of the operator cab slowly until the cab is all the way up and the latching mechanism engages.
Before I replaced the controller (probably pretty high priced) I'd take it to the dealer for diagnosis/troubleshooting. You can inspect the plugs and wires going into the controller to ensure all connnections are tight. You may even want to take the controller out and make sure it is completely dry since you said the problem started after an ice storm. Good luck and be safe.

Any further luck with the troubleshooting / repairs?

 

[YellowDog]

Any further luck with the troubleshooting / repairs?

The simplest thing is to have Bobcat come out and quickly troubleshoot it. Could be a fuse for BICS system. Could also be a loose battery cable. A loose cable on a bobcat can throw off the voltage and though the machine will start, it will not lift or drive well. This is common with the batteries.