A way for you guys to drum up some business

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Pstone

Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2011
Messages
12
I run a quarry and we get people all the time...several times a day...that call and want rock for their driveways or parking lots and want to know if we will spread it for them. The answer to that is NO. We lack the manpower, equipment, or desire to field crews to spread gravel on driveways.
What we do have is a list of local skid steer guys that we can put them in touch with who are happy to do it.
To get that list together, I had to go out and track these guys down, explain what was needed, get their contact information together, etc.. It amazes me that we have never, even once, had a skid steer guy or excavator contact us about this. The reason I went to the trouble of tracking those guys down is that it occured to me that we were losing a couple thousand tons of sales per year because the home owner/business owner were not sure how they would get the gravel spread once delivered.
You guys who are running skid steer businesses might contact your local quarries, make sure they have your contact information, and let them know that you are interested in doing the work if they get people who call and ask about having the gravel spread.
A few tips:
Whoever answers the phone there is the person you actually want in your pocket....take her a coffee mug, some business cards, a refrigerator magnet, and if they actually send work your way, drop some donuts by once a week or something
'Make it EASY for the quarry. Dont try to cut some kind of complicated deal to tie up everything, and dont make them chase you. Make sure you leave them plenty of stuff with your name and number on it. The next time somebody calls and asks about spreading the gravel you dont want them going "man...that guy was here last week...what was his name again....."
If possible visit in person
Dont ask for the quarry manager, lead man, operations manager, or anything else. Believe me, it is quarry season right now and they dont have time to mess with you. If they get called all the way back up to the office to take a call like this, they are going to be pissed. The girl who answers the phone is who you actually WANT to talk to.
DO A GOOD JOB. The quarry will end up hearing about it if you dont. We have about a dozen guys on our list. 2 of them get all the work. They get so much work from us on referral that one of them bought 2 new skid steers last year and the other bought 3. The other guys we heard complaints about so we just did not give out their names any more. I dont know if the complaints we heard on the other guys were valid or not. I dont really care. We have no horse in this race, so we go with the guys who do not piss off our customers.
Make it EASY to do business with you. This is spreading gravel on a driveway. This is not underground work. You do not need a 2 page contract. An hourly rate ready to go is good. What is even better is a per ton rate so there is no question of how much this is going to cost. The guys who do the bulk of work for our customers never even meet most of them. The customer leaves a check on the door, the guy spreads the gravel.
Find out who runs deliveries for the quarry you are at and suck up to them. My drivers can dump 100 tons of gravel in a pile that takes 10 hours to spread, or they can tailgate it up a driveway so nicely that the skid steer guy just has to spend an hour smoothing. The difference seems to be how long ago the skid steer guy showed up with a box of donuts or a case of beer. I have not figured out the optimal ratio yet, but I know that the driver who runs the delivery can either make your life VERY easy, or VERY hard.
Anyway, I dont know if this will help any of you or not, but from my perspective and my experience, I think it could provide some lucrative opportunites for some of you guys who are running skid steer businesses.
 

dirthog28

Member
Joined
May 1, 2011
Messages
18
Out of curiosity if Joe Blow the Homeowner calls up for gravel on their driveway do you guys refer them to the skidsteer guy just for his services to do the grading while your company still hauls the gravel to the homeowner or does the skidsteer guy do all the hauling and spreading. The problem I always have with driveway jobs is there is always somebody that will lowball with an Old 8N tractor and grader blade or think they can spread it good enough with a truck. I always figure in taking my skidsteer with me even if I or the Quarry spread it there'a always something that needs touched up. You say the guy just shows up and spreads the gravel, so does he go ahead time to see how much gravel or if he can even get a truck into the customers drive. Does the guy charge any minimums to show up even if it only takes a hour to spread out. I like the idea of charging by the Ton but what if he only spreads 10TN vs 50TN, does he price breaking according to tonnage. I like to do driveway jobs but seems nobody wants to pay for it.
 
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Pstone

Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2011
Messages
12
Out of curiosity if Joe Blow the Homeowner calls up for gravel on their driveway do you guys refer them to the skidsteer guy just for his services to do the grading while your company still hauls the gravel to the homeowner or does the skidsteer guy do all the hauling and spreading. The problem I always have with driveway jobs is there is always somebody that will lowball with an Old 8N tractor and grader blade or think they can spread it good enough with a truck. I always figure in taking my skidsteer with me even if I or the Quarry spread it there'a always something that needs touched up. You say the guy just shows up and spreads the gravel, so does he go ahead time to see how much gravel or if he can even get a truck into the customers drive. Does the guy charge any minimums to show up even if it only takes a hour to spread out. I like the idea of charging by the Ton but what if he only spreads 10TN vs 50TN, does he price breaking according to tonnage. I like to do driveway jobs but seems nobody wants to pay for it.
Usually the way it works is that Joe Blow the homeowner calls up for gravel for his drive and wants us to spread it. We price the gravel and delivery but tell him that we dont spread it, but can put him in touch with somebody who can. We give him a number for one of the skid steer guys.
Usually the skid steer guy makes a deal as far as spreading it, but a lot of times does not schedule it...they give a window (sometime in the next week...2 weeks...whatever). He has the customer call us back and pay for the amount of gravel they need. We take a credit card over the phone.
What the skid steer guy is doing is stacking jobs. He will either wait until he has 4-5 jobs in the same general area or use the jobs as fill work when he has nothing better to do. When he is ready, he calls us and schedules the gravel delivery (and he gives us at least 24 hours notice...usually more like 3 days notice...so we drop just as he shows up at all the jobs).
We dispatch the gravel, he spreads it. We have already been paid. He usually gets paid when he spreads it (usually via a chack or cash in an envelipe taped to the door).
We have an 18 ton minimum on delivered orders. We will deliver 10 tons for you if that is what you really want, but I am charging you for 18.
I know the guy we give the most referrals to charges $100 to spread 1 or 2 truckloads.
 

dirthog28

Member
Joined
May 1, 2011
Messages
18
Usually the way it works is that Joe Blow the homeowner calls up for gravel for his drive and wants us to spread it. We price the gravel and delivery but tell him that we dont spread it, but can put him in touch with somebody who can. We give him a number for one of the skid steer guys.
Usually the skid steer guy makes a deal as far as spreading it, but a lot of times does not schedule it...they give a window (sometime in the next week...2 weeks...whatever). He has the customer call us back and pay for the amount of gravel they need. We take a credit card over the phone.
What the skid steer guy is doing is stacking jobs. He will either wait until he has 4-5 jobs in the same general area or use the jobs as fill work when he has nothing better to do. When he is ready, he calls us and schedules the gravel delivery (and he gives us at least 24 hours notice...usually more like 3 days notice...so we drop just as he shows up at all the jobs).
We dispatch the gravel, he spreads it. We have already been paid. He usually gets paid when he spreads it (usually via a chack or cash in an envelipe taped to the door).
We have an 18 ton minimum on delivered orders. We will deliver 10 tons for you if that is what you really want, but I am charging you for 18.
I know the guy we give the most referrals to charges $100 to spread 1 or 2 truckloads.
(((I know the guy we give the most referrals to charges $100 to spread 1 or 2 truckloads.))) $100 to spread and grade a driveway??? I charge $60-$65 an hour for my skidsteer and I usually charge a 4 hr minimum. I don't know your location but unless its small where your driving 5-10 minutes to each house I don't see how he can make any money. I won't even load my skidsteer on the trailer for $100 yet alone pull it to a job for an hour job. The only way I can see working for that price is to have all 4-5 jobs all real close and be way to muddy to do any other kind of job. That kind of pricing is I guess why I don't get to many driveway jobs.
 

Goblish

Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2010
Messages
17
(((I know the guy we give the most referrals to charges $100 to spread 1 or 2 truckloads.))) $100 to spread and grade a driveway??? I charge $60-$65 an hour for my skidsteer and I usually charge a 4 hr minimum. I don't know your location but unless its small where your driving 5-10 minutes to each house I don't see how he can make any money. I won't even load my skidsteer on the trailer for $100 yet alone pull it to a job for an hour job. The only way I can see working for that price is to have all 4-5 jobs all real close and be way to muddy to do any other kind of job. That kind of pricing is I guess why I don't get to many driveway jobs.
I have to agree with dirthog for a $100 dollars what is the point of doing the work and pay for fuel which here fuel is $4.29 a gallon so by the time you take that cost out of $100 you go home in the red zone. That doesnt make alot of sense to me.
 
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Pstone

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Mar 28, 2011
Messages
12
I have to agree with dirthog for a $100 dollars what is the point of doing the work and pay for fuel which here fuel is $4.29 a gallon so by the time you take that cost out of $100 you go home in the red zone. That doesnt make alot of sense to me.
I dont even claim to be an operator and I can spread 2 loads of gravel on a driveway in 20-30 minutes. Even if you figure a full half hour to get there, you are still looking at $100 an hour including travel time. With due respect, I can get a Cat 320 on site with operator for that money. I have a 963B oif my own that I rent out including operator for $95/hr.
What kind of profit margin are you guys trying to build into your skid steer business?? I'm not ragging on you here, I am impressed you can do that well. Do you stay busy all the time?
 

Goblish

Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2010
Messages
17
I dont even claim to be an operator and I can spread 2 loads of gravel on a driveway in 20-30 minutes. Even if you figure a full half hour to get there, you are still looking at $100 an hour including travel time. With due respect, I can get a Cat 320 on site with operator for that money. I have a 963B oif my own that I rent out including operator for $95/hr.
What kind of profit margin are you guys trying to build into your skid steer business?? I'm not ragging on you here, I am impressed you can do that well. Do you stay busy all the time?
You have to also remember the cost of fuel for the skidloader and truck to haul the skidloader. If you take that cost out of the $100 dollars your now losing money. Around here there is plenty of work out there so why work for nothing.
 
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Pstone

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Mar 28, 2011
Messages
12
You have to also remember the cost of fuel for the skidloader and truck to haul the skidloader. If you take that cost out of the $100 dollars your now losing money. Around here there is plenty of work out there so why work for nothing.
30 minutes travel time is not going to be more than 30 miles. 15 mpg = 2 gallons @ $4.50/gallon = $9. Half hour of skid steer running full out burns about 1/2 gallon of fuel, but we will say 1 gallon just to make things simple. That means you have spent $13.50 on fuel. Even if you figure in another $9 for return fuel, your total fuel cost there is $23.50.
I dont know what actual cost of operation is on a normal skid steer. I know on a New Holland C190 (much more expensive than a standard skid steer) our 4 year avaerage is right at $6.90/hr. So we add that in and are at $30.40.
That leaves you with $69.60 if you are running the skid steer yourself.
That is one hell of a long ways from losing money.
Again, what kind of profit margins are you guys used to pulling?
 

Jyuma

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 30, 2010
Messages
178
30 minutes travel time is not going to be more than 30 miles. 15 mpg = 2 gallons @ $4.50/gallon = $9. Half hour of skid steer running full out burns about 1/2 gallon of fuel, but we will say 1 gallon just to make things simple. That means you have spent $13.50 on fuel. Even if you figure in another $9 for return fuel, your total fuel cost there is $23.50.
I dont know what actual cost of operation is on a normal skid steer. I know on a New Holland C190 (much more expensive than a standard skid steer) our 4 year avaerage is right at $6.90/hr. So we add that in and are at $30.40.
That leaves you with $69.60 if you are running the skid steer yourself.
That is one hell of a long ways from losing money.
Again, what kind of profit margins are you guys used to pulling?
Pstone... I found your information to both well thought out and very helpful but I'm wondering if perhaps I've missed something.
You indicated that two of the skid steer guys that you refer your customers to have added 2 or more machines, presumably in response to heavy demand. One would expect that profit was the reason the additional machines were required.
On the other hand, there appears to be some resistance to the notion that profit of perhaps $65.00 is sufficient to even warrant loading the skid steer on the trailer. Being a prospective skid steer entrepreneur myself I would be quite pleased with a realized profit of $65 for an hours work but I'm not at all certain that I could survive for very long unless that $65 per hour was generated every hour of every day for most of the week.
If I could produce $65 profit per hour for 5 hours every day... assuming at least 4 days per week... I could live with $1300 per week profit, but if I could only book a few jobs per week then I could not survive for very long.
In your experience, what would you estimate the actual potential to be? In other words... is it reasonable to assume that a skid steer guy would get 5 jobs per week? 10? 20? How many driveway jobs do you refer on a weekly basis?
Thanks
 

BubbaDirt

Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2007
Messages
23
Pstone... I found your information to both well thought out and very helpful but I'm wondering if perhaps I've missed something.
You indicated that two of the skid steer guys that you refer your customers to have added 2 or more machines, presumably in response to heavy demand. One would expect that profit was the reason the additional machines were required.
On the other hand, there appears to be some resistance to the notion that profit of perhaps $65.00 is sufficient to even warrant loading the skid steer on the trailer. Being a prospective skid steer entrepreneur myself I would be quite pleased with a realized profit of $65 for an hours work but I'm not at all certain that I could survive for very long unless that $65 per hour was generated every hour of every day for most of the week.
If I could produce $65 profit per hour for 5 hours every day... assuming at least 4 days per week... I could live with $1300 per week profit, but if I could only book a few jobs per week then I could not survive for very long.
In your experience, what would you estimate the actual potential to be? In other words... is it reasonable to assume that a skid steer guy would get 5 jobs per week? 10? 20? How many driveway jobs do you refer on a weekly basis?
Thanks
Pstone, thanks for the thoughts but yer numbers just don't work. I am fortunate to be referred by a local gravel yard. I get $250/load for spreading...more than 2 loads and I can negotiate. Your #'s look "right", but it just doesn't work as you envision. Here's the "real world", Customer calls me, I call back. FIRST TRIP is to measure drive and let them know how much stone they need, Do they need some ABC to fill potholes ? What kind of top dressing, 57's, 78's ??? Some insist on meeting me so "When I'm in the neighborhood" is out the window. HOW MUCH money ??? They want ONE price total. SECOND TRIP I schedule always stone for "first load". I have to be there, if I want stone dumped where I need it. Sometimes, have to wait 3 or 4 hours, as stone delivery gets behind, mechanical breakdown, etc. Not every time, but it happens. THIRD TRIP to stop by and p/u check. Please do me a favor, do not ever "spread" stone with yer trucks. Way easier for me to work off one pile than to chase stone all over driveway.
 

BubbaDirt

Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2007
Messages
23
Pstone, thanks for the thoughts but yer numbers just don't work. I am fortunate to be referred by a local gravel yard. I get $250/load for spreading...more than 2 loads and I can negotiate. Your #'s look "right", but it just doesn't work as you envision. Here's the "real world", Customer calls me, I call back. FIRST TRIP is to measure drive and let them know how much stone they need, Do they need some ABC to fill potholes ? What kind of top dressing, 57's, 78's ??? Some insist on meeting me so "When I'm in the neighborhood" is out the window. HOW MUCH money ??? They want ONE price total. SECOND TRIP I schedule always stone for "first load". I have to be there, if I want stone dumped where I need it. Sometimes, have to wait 3 or 4 hours, as stone delivery gets behind, mechanical breakdown, etc. Not every time, but it happens. THIRD TRIP to stop by and p/u check. Please do me a favor, do not ever "spread" stone with yer trucks. Way easier for me to work off one pile than to chase stone all over driveway.
Sorry for the "one paragraph" post....This is the only forum I ever post on that "compacts" every sentence and paragraph into one long blob....... (this was triplespaced)
 

Tazza

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Sorry for the "one paragraph" post....This is the only forum I ever post on that "compacts" every sentence and paragraph into one long blob....... (this was triplespaced)
You need to go into your profile and click the box that says use html editor, then your spaces will work.
 

skidsteer.ca

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Joined
Jan 20, 2006
Messages
3,853
Tanks, man.
I think it reall depends on your area. Locally I know it is hard to line up jobs so I can go from one to the next. If I only make 65 for loading going to and from unloading etc, it is just not enough. That is why most work with a 3 or 4 hour minimum rate. Typically even if the job only takes a hour for a skid it is already far too big to do by hand. If it is going to cost you 250 to hire a skid or you are going to work all day to save the 250 many will pay it. If not why go in the hole just to do someone a favour unless you get one back someday.
I try to sell the customer other services, like maybe tilling the garden, mowing some brush or grinding a stump or two. That way I can get my minimum and they can get their moneys worth.
Skidsteer.ca
 
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Pstone

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Mar 28, 2011
Messages
12
I think it reall depends on your area. Locally I know it is hard to line up jobs so I can go from one to the next. If I only make 65 for loading going to and from unloading etc, it is just not enough. That is why most work with a 3 or 4 hour minimum rate. Typically even if the job only takes a hour for a skid it is already far too big to do by hand. If it is going to cost you 250 to hire a skid or you are going to work all day to save the 250 many will pay it. If not why go in the hole just to do someone a favour unless you get one back someday.
I try to sell the customer other services, like maybe tilling the garden, mowing some brush or grinding a stump or two. That way I can get my minimum and they can get their moneys worth.
Skidsteer.ca
It must be based on area. I can say with 100% certainty that none of the guys I know here who run a skid steer service would put up with the crap that bubbadirt apparently has to. 3 trips for a simple driveway is nuts. At that point you have spent as much time driving back and forth to their house and socializing as you have working. I just dont see the local guys putting up with that.
At the same time, the local guys have to compete with farmer bob down the road who will come spread it with his tractor for next to nothing. There is also always the "go rent a skid steer" option....they only rent for $140 a day here.
I got the Email notification about bubbadirts post the other day but decided to hold off on responding until I had a chance to talk to the guy we give most of our referrals to. After reading some of the responses here I thought maybe I had misunderstood his pricing or how he does things.
I spoke with him today and he said he charges $100 for the first 2 truck loads, $50 for every truck load after that. Currently he has 4 machines running and averages $19 an hour profit on gravel jobs on them after paying all costs, including operator wages and payments on some disgunstingly nice trucks to tow the skid steers around with.
He did say that he charges less for simple gravel spreading/driveway repair because there is not nearly as much wear and tear on the machines as there is if you are doing stump removal or mucking out lagoons.
I think another part of it is economy of scale. He only makes $19 an hour in profit after paying all expenses, but he has 4 machines running and he says he is always booked solid. That is going to be close to $18,000 a month in profit and he has not left the house (I dont think he has actually run a machine himself for quite a while).
 

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