A bunch of ?'s

[newhollandnut]

Hello everyone, I am new to the skid steer world. I have a bunch of questions. I traded a sawmill in on a New Holland L783 with 3700 hrs. I am New Holland fan and have owned a few of their tractors. I have a New Holland TC 40 now with a FEL. Anyway, back to my questions. The skid steer leaks fluid from both the left wheels. I am told that it is the wheel seals. The dealer quoted me $400 to replace these. I was wondering if this is a big job or something I can do myself. (any special tools needed, or barrings that need pressed, ect?) My second question is, the seat belt switch has been bypassed. When I sit in the skid steer I hear the pressure switches in the seat come on. I can crank the machine and operate all functions for a short period of time - then the boom quits working/locks up. I assume there is an issue with the seat switch. I also noticed that the switch is turned to the service mode on the control box. When turned to the operation mode, the skid steer will not crank. Any ideas?? This is the start of a bunch of questions. Thanks for your time. Joey

 

[Earthwerks Unlimited]

Sounds like you should have had the machine checked out first before trading it. Soemone was wise enough to leave the SERVICE switch in that position to get rid of it (think of it in this case as LIMP-HOME switch) I have a NH CUT a TC33D and an LS185.b. skid steer NH are notorious for electrical problems--especially the CUT. For the skid steer, without being there to look at everything--first you can't "hear" or "feel" the seat switches---they mount from the bottom and sometimes back of the seat. Some machines have 1, some 2. I have a suspended seat which means it goes up and down. Since it goes up and down the wires going to the seat swicth in the front broke off. I rerouted the wires to the switch (I have only one switch) and connected it to a hidden toggle swicth which acts as a theft deterrent. If you do this, don't leave it in the ON or RUN position as this will alllow someone else to steal it AND it runs down the battery by powering up the instrument panel. Also, the seat belts in these machines are not designed to be used in this type of equipment---I know this because mine was replaced under warranty and the box it came in was a generic seat belt that had instructions for installation in bus or UPS-type truck---not a machine thats sees water and dust and debris. First you have to determine if the seat belt latch swicth is good which is a microswitch in the portion of the seat belt that stcick up along the right side of the seat. What I did is cut off the webbing of the buckle from a new seat belt assembly I got from warranty (I told them I would install it myself but didn't) and made it a sort of "key" (I still have the old belt installed if I need it). Depending on what position I left the toggle switch ON, and go to start it all I do is unlatch the cut off buckle and reinstall it, then start it. Also another thing to look for is the lock-out solenoid(s?) which is/are located in the control valve loacted ahead of the seat on the floor (remove the cover plate to get to it). The solenoid HAS to have power to it to allow you to move the control(s). Removing it is easy--unscrews. It has a small metal plunger that retracts into the solenoid body. If this is not there, replace it and also look for the broken piece in the spot from where it came. Also, I had a similar electrical problem on my then-brand new LS185.b--turned out to be a $15 diode that looked like a two-wire trailer hitch connector located in the main fuse box. The dealer took a week to find it since no one had trained them on this new series of machines. I keep a spare zip-tied to the old one with orange paint on it to find it easier. ALSO--it goes without saying but I'll say it anyway--check all the fuses---even replace them with new in case the contacts are corroded. I have an enclosed cab and they still get corroded--might be two fuse boxes like mine.

 

[newhollandnut]

Sounds like you should have had the machine checked out first before trading it. Soemone was wise enough to leave the SERVICE switch in that position to get rid of it (think of it in this case as LIMP-HOME switch) I have a NH CUT a TC33D and an LS185.b. skid steer NH are notorious for electrical problems--especially the CUT. For the skid steer, without being there to look at everything--first you can't "hear" or "feel" the seat switches---they mount from the bottom and sometimes back of the seat. Some machines have 1, some 2. I have a suspended seat which means it goes up and down. Since it goes up and down the wires going to the seat swicth in the front broke off. I rerouted the wires to the switch (I have only one switch) and connected it to a hidden toggle swicth which acts as a theft deterrent. If you do this, don't leave it in the ON or RUN position as this will alllow someone else to steal it AND it runs down the battery by powering up the instrument panel. Also, the seat belts in these machines are not designed to be used in this type of equipment---I know this because mine was replaced under warranty and the box it came in was a generic seat belt that had instructions for installation in bus or UPS-type truck---not a machine thats sees water and dust and debris. First you have to determine if the seat belt latch swicth is good which is a microswitch in the portion of the seat belt that stcick up along the right side of the seat. What I did is cut off the webbing of the buckle from a new seat belt assembly I got from warranty (I told them I would install it myself but didn't) and made it a sort of "key" (I still have the old belt installed if I need it). Depending on what position I left the toggle switch ON, and go to start it all I do is unlatch the cut off buckle and reinstall it, then start it. Also another thing to look for is the lock-out solenoid(s?) which is/are located in the control valve loacted ahead of the seat on the floor (remove the cover plate to get to it). The solenoid HAS to have power to it to allow you to move the control(s). Removing it is easy--unscrews. It has a small metal plunger that retracts into the solenoid body. If this is not there, replace it and also look for the broken piece in the spot from where it came. Also, I had a similar electrical problem on my then-brand new LS185.b--turned out to be a $15 diode that looked like a two-wire trailer hitch connector located in the main fuse box. The dealer took a week to find it since no one had trained them on this new series of machines. I keep a spare zip-tied to the old one with orange paint on it to find it easier. ALSO--it goes without saying but I'll say it anyway--check all the fuses---even replace them with new in case the contacts are corroded. I have an enclosed cab and they still get corroded--might be two fuse boxes like mine.

Earthwerks, thanks for the info. I traded the sawmill to a dealer so I assumed(we know what that means) that it would be a good unit. I know the owner personally. I worked for him all through high school and was friends with his daughter. I called him today and asked him if he would cover these issues. He said that it would not hurt it to run in the service mode and that he would come get the skid steer and stright wire the solenoid with a swicth. I was aware of the wheel seals and agreed to fix them myself. I have been looking for a service manual for the 783 but cant find one. There is not a lot of info on the web about this unit. I dont know if this is because they didnt make many of them or what. I dont mind that it will be straight wired. But it only running in the service mode makes me wonder why. It runs great has alot of power but none of the lights light up in the cab. I am only going to be using this on my farm. Any idea on the wheel seals? Thanks Joey

 

[Earthwerks Unlimited]

Earthwerks, thanks for the info. I traded the sawmill to a dealer so I assumed(we know what that means) that it would be a good unit. I know the owner personally. I worked for him all through high school and was friends with his daughter. I called him today and asked him if he would cover these issues. He said that it would not hurt it to run in the service mode and that he would come get the skid steer and stright wire the solenoid with a swicth. I was aware of the wheel seals and agreed to fix them myself. I have been looking for a service manual for the 783 but cant find one. There is not a lot of info on the web about this unit. I dont know if this is because they didnt make many of them or what. I dont mind that it will be straight wired. But it only running in the service mode makes me wonder why. It runs great has alot of power but none of the lights light up in the cab. I am only going to be using this on my farm. Any idea on the wheel seals? Thanks Joey

I'm going on my experience with the machines I own: He either doesn't know what he's talking about or is just plain lying about running it in the Service Mode. The whole idea of running in SM is to protect the mechanic against accidental operation. That said, it is beyond me how it will run in SM--that leads me to believe he either did something to the wiring or knows about it. From a liability standpoint I'd bow out of having him laying one finger on it and take it to a dealer and let them figure it out. He doesn't realize or care about the liability--not to mention YOURS-- he's taking on by screwing with the safety systems. I don't want to alarm you buuuut...this conversation isn't something you can retract as if it never occurred since it is now in the Public Domain (read: in the hands of an attorney it will be called "evidence")--that is, if you or someone else gets hurt or killed they can come after both of you. And think of what what happen if a friend operates the machine and you forget to tell him about the safety system being overidden? And he gets killed. From a legal standpoint, you are doing right (so far) by covering your legal ass and your future by trying to undo what he did or knows about. He on the other hand has opened himself to liabilty big time--unless he had you sign something that he is held-harmless and or sold/traded it to you for parts. But even then a a good lawyer could show he had intent to defraud you. And if you take it to the dealer be SURE to write something on the work order to the effect the machine has nonworking safety system so they at the very least won't get pissed when something doesn't work right AND have the Service Manager initial it. I had a similar situation where I had a Jeep that was getting new tires. It had no driveshafts and no parking brakes and was used soley offroad. And told them to please be careful because it will roll away on its own so be careful. I even printed a full size sheet of paper with this same caution on it and taped it to the steering wheel. I got it back without the note atached. They were pissd off that it rolled backward when they were working on it and it rolled out into the street and hit the curb. I shrugged my shoulders and pointed to the remaining bits of the note that had been on the steering wheel. They walked away pissed even more since they knew I was right. Dumbasses. As far as the seals I haven't a clue.

 

[mllud]

I'm going on my experience with the machines I own: He either doesn't know what he's talking about or is just plain lying about running it in the Service Mode. The whole idea of running in SM is to protect the mechanic against accidental operation. That said, it is beyond me how it will run in SM--that leads me to believe he either did something to the wiring or knows about it. From a liability standpoint I'd bow out of having him laying one finger on it and take it to a dealer and let them figure it out. He doesn't realize or care about the liability--not to mention YOURS-- he's taking on by screwing with the safety systems. I don't want to alarm you buuuut...this conversation isn't something you can retract as if it never occurred since it is now in the Public Domain (read: in the hands of an attorney it will be called "evidence")--that is, if you or someone else gets hurt or killed they can come after both of you. And think of what what happen if a friend operates the machine and you forget to tell him about the safety system being overidden? And he gets killed. From a legal standpoint, you are doing right (so far) by covering your legal ass and your future by trying to undo what he did or knows about. He on the other hand has opened himself to liabilty big time--unless he had you sign something that he is held-harmless and or sold/traded it to you for parts. But even then a a good lawyer could show he had intent to defraud you. And if you take it to the dealer be SURE to write something on the work order to the effect the machine has nonworking safety system so they at the very least won't get pissed when something doesn't work right AND have the Service Manager initial it. I had a similar situation where I had a Jeep that was getting new tires. It had no driveshafts and no parking brakes and was used soley offroad. And told them to please be careful because it will roll away on its own so be careful. I even printed a full size sheet of paper with this same caution on it and taped it to the steering wheel. I got it back without the note atached. They were pissd off that it rolled backward when they were working on it and it rolled out into the street and hit the curb. I shrugged my shoulders and pointed to the remaining bits of the note that had been on the steering wheel. They walked away pissed even more since they knew I was right. Dumbasses. As far as the seals I haven't a clue.

To order a the service manuals call 1-800=635-4913. They come in 6 manuals for each section of the machine. The most useful book is the {Operators Manual} it has all the service information and a lot of adjustments and trouble shooting. The other manuals are more specefic on rebuilding pumps ,engine and so forth. The whole set is about $275. The operators manual is about 65. They are worth every penny. well written and thorough.
Love my spelling. Down loaded spell check but dont know how to make it work. Mike

 

[mllud]

To order a the service manuals call 1-800=635-4913. They come in 6 manuals for each section of the machine. The most useful book is the {Operators Manual} it has all the service information and a lot of adjustments and trouble shooting. The other manuals are more specefic on rebuilding pumps ,engine and so forth. The whole set is about $275. The operators manual is about 65. They are worth every penny. well written and thorough.
Love my spelling. Down loaded spell check but dont know how to make it work. Mike

I dont know about your loader but if the wheel hubs ad bolted to the chain case with 8 bolts the whole wheel hub slides right off when you remove those bolts. The sprocket is splined.
The bearings are held in with a snap ring. The bearing end play is adjusted with shims. You shouldnt need a press to remove the axle from the hub.. I put a 2x6 on the floor and lifted and dropped the axle against the board a couple of times and the hub came right off. I only lifted and dropped a few inches holding on to the hub. Worked like a slide hammer.
There is an inner and outer seal. the outer bearing uses grease . it has a seal on each side of it to contain the grease. The inner bearing is oiled with the chain case oil.
Your axle could be different. Mike

 

[newhollandnut]

I dont know about your loader but if the wheel hubs ad bolted to the chain case with 8 bolts the whole wheel hub slides right off when you remove those bolts. The sprocket is splined.
The bearings are held in with a snap ring. The bearing end play is adjusted with shims. You shouldnt need a press to remove the axle from the hub.. I put a 2x6 on the floor and lifted and dropped the axle against the board a couple of times and the hub came right off. I only lifted and dropped a few inches holding on to the hub. Worked like a slide hammer.
There is an inner and outer seal. the outer bearing uses grease . it has a seal on each side of it to contain the grease. The inner bearing is oiled with the chain case oil.
Your axle could be different. Mike

Mike, thanks for the info. I have talked to the Dealership and they want $400.00 to do it. I am perrty good at working on stuff but have never tore into anything like this. I have a friend who is a forklift mechanic and has agreed to help me out. I am going to order the service manuels and give it a try for myself, and maby I can work out the wiring/safety problems. I will let yaw know how it goes. Thanks Joey

 

[mllud]

Mike, thanks for the info. I have talked to the Dealership and they want $400.00 to do it. I am perrty good at working on stuff but have never tore into anything like this. I have a friend who is a forklift mechanic and has agreed to help me out. I am going to order the service manuels and give it a try for myself, and maby I can work out the wiring/safety problems. I will let yaw know how it goes. Thanks Joey

Its not a bad job if your axles are like mine.
On the wiring. Everything Earthwerks Unlimited says is true. Safety is First. And liability for changing safety systems is a serious concern.
My Dash panel on my LX865 is fried. You can keep all the safety functions in place and the bucket and lift solenoids will be locked out. unless your in the seat buckeled up. I would not run mine climbing in and out and take the chance of stepping on a peddle and dropping the boom on myself. You have to wire them in series so the Ignition wont start unless your buckled up in the seat.Any break in the curcit and it wont start.
I , Like you use my loader on my property only.The loader will run in service. Just make sure all the features are doing the same thing they did before.
Before computer boards controled these machines it was done with hard wireing and still can. Buy a 15 dollar hour meter to keep track of hours
The thing you lose is the function of the dash. You will have to install gauges and the machine will not shut down on loss of oil pressure or charge pressure. That can be fixed with an aftermarket systems like used on diesel trucks.
They want about $750 for a dash panel. These are designed so you cant do basic troubleshooting and the dealer has control. I even have a secret toggle switch on mine that my son doesnt know about.
You can keep every safety function working as it does now with simple hard wiring. And for your safety make sure you do.
I would love to have a new machine with all the fluff. I work with I have and dont skimp on safety Mike

 

[busted_knuckles]

Hi Joey, if youre in the mood to track down the whole system and figure out what works and what has been bypassed, I might be of some assistance. New Holland published a book to go along with a training video, "Understanding and Troubleshooting the Skid Steer Loader Operator Restraint System". It only covers that system, with fundemental wiring diagrams, as well all the color code of the wires, and an explanation as to how it all works together, specifically written for the technician. Might allow you to get to the heart of the problem, in the event youve got more time than money (like most of the rest of us). I can email you a hi-res pic of the wiring diagrams, and any of the useful text. The only caveat, its for a 18 pin system, not sure what the pre-94 NH loader "brain boxes" look like. There is no date of publication on this, and Ive not had to use the book to dial in which generation it belongs too. I can tell you I think its from the late 80s to early 90s, only because it carries the Ford/NH Logo. Best of Luck to you, Bill

 

[busted_knuckles]

Hi Joey, if youre in the mood to track down the whole system and figure out what works and what has been bypassed, I might be of some assistance. New Holland published a book to go along with a training video, "Understanding and Troubleshooting the Skid Steer Loader Operator Restraint System". It only covers that system, with fundemental wiring diagrams, as well all the color code of the wires, and an explanation as to how it all works together, specifically written for the technician. Might allow you to get to the heart of the problem, in the event youve got more time than money (like most of the rest of us). I can email you a hi-res pic of the wiring diagrams, and any of the useful text. The only caveat, its for a 18 pin system, not sure what the pre-94 NH loader "brain boxes" look like. There is no date of publication on this, and Ive not had to use the book to dial in which generation it belongs too. I can tell you I think its from the late 80s to early 90s, only because it carries the Ford/NH Logo. Best of Luck to you, Bill

Allow me to update my last post, while reading an unrelated NH Topic, I happened to notice a dateline for the training literature in the back of the book, the pre mentioned "Loader Operator Restraint System" book was publsihed in 1990, so I would have to assume it is specific to your machine... thanks, Bill

 

[newhollandnut]

Allow me to update my last post, while reading an unrelated NH Topic, I happened to notice a dateline for the training literature in the back of the book, the pre mentioned "Loader Operator Restraint System" book was publsihed in 1990, so I would have to assume it is specific to your machine... thanks, Bill

UPDATE!!!!!!!! First I want to thank everyone for the help. I have spent about 10 hours working on the wiring. It is a mess. I got all the safty switchs woking, seat belt, seat pressure switch. How ever it will still only operate in the service mode. I called the dealer and spoke to the shop manger who now knows my phone number by heart. He went through about 10 things it could be. I have ordered the whole set of owners manuels but they have not got here yet. Bill, if you could email me that I would be in debt to you. I didnt want to spend a lot of money on the skid steer but I want it right. My next step is take it to the dealer. I dont want to, but what is my time worth? I have a new born baby and the wife tired of me being in the shop all day. ( me too)

 

[busted_knuckles]

UPDATE!!!!!!!! First I want to thank everyone for the help. I have spent about 10 hours working on the wiring. It is a mess. I got all the safty switchs woking, seat belt, seat pressure switch. How ever it will still only operate in the service mode. I called the dealer and spoke to the shop manger who now knows my phone number by heart. He went through about 10 things it could be. I have ordered the whole set of owners manuels but they have not got here yet. Bill, if you could email me that I would be in debt to you. I didnt want to spend a lot of money on the skid steer but I want it right. My next step is take it to the dealer. I dont want to, but what is my time worth? I have a new born baby and the wife tired of me being in the shop all day. ( me too)

Hi Joey, I went to email you, but your address is not showing "public" when I click on your "profile", you might make it show there and not post here on the boards for anyone to see and possibly spam.
I took hi-res pics of what I think you could use, about 16 pages, with wiring diagrams and flow charts, also some text. I uploaded it to the web, I will forward you a link to the pages, so you can check them out. I will not email them, for the file sizes would probably overwhelm your email account. Let me know when youve turned on your addy in your profile. Good Luck, Bill