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that machine should have a 3 stage pump , each stage works multiple functions but I don't remember what the actual order but just say it would be something like boom, 1 track , swing on one curcuit , arm , 1 track and dozer blade on another and the rest of the functions on the thrid , being that you didn't say anything about any other functions being affected I don't thin it is a stage of the pump, you can swop hoses around on the pump and see if the problem moves to another curcuit , are you sure that the cylinder is ok , maybe you'll damaged the piston seal during installation or the inside the barrel is scared up ------ it could also be a problem in the low pressure side and the spool is not moving or the spool is jammed up
Just the ram not working and everything else working, then I'll guess at air in system or as FF said, the spool is jammed up with crap... It worked fine before seal job? Everything nice and clean when put back together?
Thanks again Guys swaped pipes over on the pump and it still does the same thing did the same with the hand piece and still the same ill get a workshop manual online today and find out how to bleed and what a spool is lol with thanks Michael and Uly p.s hello from Australia
there is no bleeding , it self bleeds , if air is getting in then it would pretty much have to be the pump cavatating -------the spools are in the controll valve , each bank ( function ) has a spool that shifts back and forth and directs the oil flow between the in -out , left -right , forward -backwards , on a machine like yours , a low over high pressure joystick controll, the swing , boom, dipper and bucket are fluid driven , the tracks are linkage and the dozer blade is a cable if I remember right , the low pressure oil in controlled by the joysticks , it sends oil to the cap on the spool where an oring around the end of a piston connected to the end of the spool moves the spool , a spring keeps the spool center in netraul , the oil moves the spool to open and let high pressure flow to the curcuit desired ---------- fishfi
Hi Fish we undone the dipper arm pin at the head and was going to procede to put a kit in which we will we chocked up the ram away from its mounts and started the machine and with out touching the joystick and the ram opened up by itself tried to stop it from coming out with a 18" shifter could not stop it tried to make it come back via the joystick and nothing i think something maybe when they put a ram kit and changed both hydro lines they may have got some crap in the line which maybe effecting the spool maybe jambed with thanks Michael and Uly
I have been burned with a new hydraulic hose a few times before , I always blow out a new hose with air and or aerosol part cleaner , when the hose is cut pieces of rubber and wire will get thrown inside the hose and get in a relief valve or what not on start up .......................the way they sre plumbed it seems most Bobcats have some pressure on the curcuits when started , seems I always have to plug hoses to be able to run a Bobcat machine without hoses hooked up , where as some manufacturers machines can be run without spilling a drop when a hose is disconnected as long as you don't hit the lever ......... I always loose the hoses going to a cylinder before disassembly , one it ensures there is no pressure on the cucuit and two it relieves the suction on the back side of the piston , it can be hard to get it back together without first loosing the back side hose if the piston seal is a tight fit ............................. whats and 18" shifter , my guess a bar used to line things up , a line up bar ?
Fishfiles - This is what us aussie folk call a shifter:
Great tool to do most sizes of bolt or nut, also great for rounding the sides of the head of said bolt or nut.......
oh, a Mexican socket set ...........
Hi Guys found it relief valve in the dipper arm spool jambed with old ram seal thought the word shifter was an American term. us Aussies are tought at a very young age that a shifter will fix everything lol Funny you know in New Guinea they call it a walking spanner anyway waiting on a seal kit and my son is gonna dig the shit out of everything lol Thanks Guys
I am glad you got it figured out -------------- I went thru a 4 year apprenticeship and I been a heavy equipment mechaninc since 1976 and never heard shifter before , most here called it a Crescent wrench or an adjustable wrench , I have heard the term spanner , think it is British term , but I have always called a spanner wrench the wrench you would use to open the cylinders gland ( head ) nut , got some spanners but usually use a large pair of Channel lock pliers ( slip joint pliers ) unless it is very tight ---------------- over here if you hold it in your hand and turn counter closewise it opens , I got one that says made in Sweden on it and it is the opposite way
hi Fish so funny we are a little different over here i was tought to use, make, or do anything to get the job done put the kit in got the ram to go one way now comes in and it wont go out the low presure from the hand piece can feel fluid going through it to make the arm come in now when you push the control away from you it will not do anything at all no presure coming through from the hand piece Now please some one tell me im right i think its in the hand piece maybe blockage or worse lol. because i dont wont to pull the spool (come valve body) apart again lol. oww yer swaped the hoses around on the spool (valve body) so i could get the arm to go out and it did so thats why i think its in the hand piece. sorry to be a pain guys and thanks for the help. thanks Michael and Uly
bummer , I have never had to change out or even unstick a joystick controller because of a internal mechanical failure , I have changed them out because of leaks and one recently because the u joint rusted away and the handle fell off , it sure sounds like thats were the problem is , low and high pressure are two different curcuits but do draw their oil from the same tank , maybe you have some other seals or orings deteriating and pieces going thru the system , have you changed the hydraulic filter lately , if not I think I would cut it open and have a look n see whats floating around the system -------- it is fairly easy to disassembly the joystick valve and clean it out maybe something got into it ----------------------------- ratdog I would think has to refer to what we call a Jack Russel Terrier , great squirrel dog , one of my favorite dogs , kinda hyper , we had a friend bring one over last week and we went riding ATV's in the woods which are wet and muddy right now , you should have seen that dog after an hour of running thru the slop and swimming thru the deep ones
Been reading this thread with interest...curious, if you swapped out the joystick hoses? Wondering if one can isolate the problem...Fishfiles???
mrdeere1959
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2011
- Messages
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I chased a problem on a 331 that I could not figure out, come to find out the pattern selector valve was bumped and was in between positions. Always check it now. lol
melli , I reread the post about hose swopping , I thought I read where ratdog swopped the low pressure hoses but after rereading it again I think he swopped the high pressure hoses ---I would guess it could be an oring on the servo piston inside the cap on the end of the spool , if the problem wasn't there it would seem it would have to be in the joystick as it is only one direction of one function that is affected and he has already redone the cylinder -------------
Hi guys Found out the prob got my son to engage the forward and back on the dipper arm and found out that the low presure line from the hand piece to move forward had no presure at all as you can feel the hydro fluid moving through the lines who needs presure gauge lol traced it back to the hand piece and found out that the feed to the dipper arm and the constant presure were swaped around and swaped them back and guess what it works lol rang the guy who sold it to us and he said that his fitters had the hand piece off. so thats why we got a cheap machine lol and he bought a new CAT lol thanks so much guys you gave me ideas and helped me elliminate the abvious as a diesel fitter i make a great builder lol thanks again Michael and Uly sorry not been back sooner but we have been isollated 750 mm of rain in 24 hrs been rainin for 3 days solid lol thanks again
Something so simple but the problem always is, you never know what the previous owner(s) meddled with before you got it, nice find!
Fishfiles - the spanner that was made lesewhere that moved the opposite direction may have been a left handed one. Not like a left handed screwdriver though
they actually made shifters/crescent wrenches for lefties and righties. It's a real pain when you have just one alien in your tool box and you pick it up......The channel lock pliers you mention we call multi-grips, you open them up and move then to adjust the opening size? if so, they seem to wear the locking/pivot point out too often for my liking.
We also have pipe wrenches that we stilsons, they are great at tearing large chunks out of cylinder gland nuts when you don't have the correct tool......
