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perry

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Purchased a 853 that has a problem, it runs and drives great but, the bucket arms only move a little, I think it's sensors but not sure?, any help appreciated. Thanks,,,,,,,,,,Perry
 

Tazza

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I should mention it's a 1984 c-series 853.
Do you have a problem with the tilt section too?
Make sure your right steering lever isn't stuck in the detent position (far right).
 

perry

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Do you have a problem with the tilt section too?
Make sure your right steering lever isn't stuck in the detent position (far right).
I've been reading the manual and the part about adjusting the steering levers, The tilt will barely move. I can hear the squeezing sound of hyd. fluid when I attempt to move the tilt or bucket arms. Are you saying if the steering arms are out of adjusment, the lift and tilt will not work?. Thanks
 

Tazza

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I've been reading the manual and the part about adjusting the steering levers, The tilt will barely move. I can hear the squeezing sound of hyd. fluid when I attempt to move the tilt or bucket arms. Are you saying if the steering arms are out of adjusment, the lift and tilt will not work?. Thanks
Na,not like that. Your right steering lever controls your aux hydraulics as well as steering, these have a detent position for running attachments like a back hoe that gives you constant oil flow. Sometimes they get bumped to the right and they lock into the detent position. Just pull it all the way in (to the teft when in the machine) and let it spring back to centre, then you know its not stuck in detent.
From what your saying, you can hear a whistle like the oil is going over your relief valve if this is constant it would explain the lack of tilt power. It will also make starting ALOT harder as it has alot more force on the engine when its trying to start.
Hopefully thats all it is, nice and simple to fix.
 

perry

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Na,not like that. Your right steering lever controls your aux hydraulics as well as steering, these have a detent position for running attachments like a back hoe that gives you constant oil flow. Sometimes they get bumped to the right and they lock into the detent position. Just pull it all the way in (to the teft when in the machine) and let it spring back to centre, then you know its not stuck in detent.
From what your saying, you can hear a whistle like the oil is going over your relief valve if this is constant it would explain the lack of tilt power. It will also make starting ALOT harder as it has alot more force on the engine when its trying to start.
Hopefully thats all it is, nice and simple to fix.
The engine starts right up no problem and drives great, where should I start looking to fix the no lift no tilt problem, I'm not sure which valve under the seat controls the lift- tilt. If I can get close I believe I can fix. I understand I may need to remove a valve body and have it rebuilt, I understood this when I purchased it.
 

perry

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The engine starts right up no problem and drives great, where should I start looking to fix the no lift no tilt problem, I'm not sure which valve under the seat controls the lift- tilt. If I can get close I believe I can fix. I understand I may need to remove a valve body and have it rebuilt, I understood this when I purchased it.
No, I only hear the whistle when I attempt to raise or tilt.,
 

perry

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No, I only hear the whistle when I attempt to raise or tilt.,
I should mention all the controls are on the handles, tilt the hand grip left or right to tilt or raise the bucket, no foot controls.........
 

skidsteer.ca

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I should mention all the controls are on the handles, tilt the hand grip left or right to tilt or raise the bucket, no foot controls.........
Does this machine have the BICS electronic box on the right side of the operater beside the seat backrest?
They have a solinoid valve that blocks all hydraulic flow to the lift and tilt funtions (safety device) when the seatbar is up. All the green lights on the bics controler should be lit to unlock the loaders 2 functions. This should also unlock you parkbrake at the same time provided someones has not disabled it prior to you recieving the machine.
Originally these machines had a seat switch that sensed the operator sitting down and then lowering the seat bar activated another switch and your would hear a definite click as the park brake unlocked (actualy its more of a park pin) and the lift and tilt would unlock as indicated by the green indicator lights on the bics module beside the operator.
The seat switch proved troublesome and it was removed on many loaders and updated to a green “press to operate” button just below the key on the left instrument panel.
Are any of the green lights on?, if so which ones?
Regards
Ken
 

skidsteer.ca

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Does this machine have the BICS electronic box on the right side of the operater beside the seat backrest?
They have a solinoid valve that blocks all hydraulic flow to the lift and tilt funtions (safety device) when the seatbar is up. All the green lights on the bics controler should be lit to unlock the loaders 2 functions. This should also unlock you parkbrake at the same time provided someones has not disabled it prior to you recieving the machine.
Originally these machines had a seat switch that sensed the operator sitting down and then lowering the seat bar activated another switch and your would hear a definite click as the park brake unlocked (actualy its more of a park pin) and the lift and tilt would unlock as indicated by the green indicator lights on the bics module beside the operator.
The seat switch proved troublesome and it was removed on many loaders and updated to a green “press to operate” button just below the key on the left instrument panel.
Are any of the green lights on?, if so which ones?
Regards
Ken
Oh it won't be your rh steering lever stuck in the dentent (continuos aux hyd flow) as these machines used electric valves for the aux hyd and it shuts itself of every time the key is turned off
Ken
 

perry

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Oh it won't be your rh steering lever stuck in the dentent (continuos aux hyd flow) as these machines used electric valves for the aux hyd and it shuts itself of every time the key is turned off
Ken
Yes, the seat belt and valve light are on.
 

skidsteer.ca

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Yes, the seat belt and valve light are on.
Lift the cab and on the operators rh side of the frame directly below the gas strut (that lifts the cab, but on the inside of course) is a square aluminum block with some hyd lines going to it. On this block is a coil with 2 wires coming from it. It needs a power and a ground (which should be suplied to it when all the bics lights are on) to unlock the hyd functions. Take your test light and check that it is getting power to one wire and ground on the other.
(the coil will work wired either way, so don't worry about putting power to the wrong wire) Or unplug it and put power to one wire and ground to the other. You should be able to hear it click lightly. If power is there, no clicking means you need a new coil. If it clicks and still is lock it could be that you need a new needle assembly that the coil slips over. It was working fine and just quit, or did you buy it like this?
My serial # ends in 19801 (was told its a 95 model)so your may be different if it is alot new or older
Ken
 

perry

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Lift the cab and on the operators rh side of the frame directly below the gas strut (that lifts the cab, but on the inside of course) is a square aluminum block with some hyd lines going to it. On this block is a coil with 2 wires coming from it. It needs a power and a ground (which should be suplied to it when all the bics lights are on) to unlock the hyd functions. Take your test light and check that it is getting power to one wire and ground on the other.
(the coil will work wired either way, so don't worry about putting power to the wrong wire) Or unplug it and put power to one wire and ground to the other. You should be able to hear it click lightly. If power is there, no clicking means you need a new coil. If it clicks and still is lock it could be that you need a new needle assembly that the coil slips over. It was working fine and just quit, or did you buy it like this?
My serial # ends in 19801 (was told its a 95 model)so your may be different if it is alot new or older
Ken
Thanks Ken, finally got someclear weather so I can get out there a work on it. I'll follow your instructions and let you know. Perry
 

perry

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Thanks Ken, finally got someclear weather so I can get out there a work on it. I'll follow your instructions and let you know. Perry
OK Ken, I found the aluminum block with the coil (solenoid), I removed the needle as you described it and saw no obvious damage, it has no moving parts just o-rings and screen filter, on the opposite side of the aluminum there was another needle?, I removed it and saw no obvious damage. I reinstalled everything and tested the coil with the switch on, it measured 7 Volts?, I went to the battery and tested it, 12 volts. Is this correct?, I did not hear a click as you described?. The lift arms still do not move but the tilt cylinder moves a couple of inches. Any ideas?, Thanks
 

sterlclan

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OK Ken, I found the aluminum block with the coil (solenoid), I removed the needle as you described it and saw no obvious damage, it has no moving parts just o-rings and screen filter, on the opposite side of the aluminum there was another needle?, I removed it and saw no obvious damage. I reinstalled everything and tested the coil with the switch on, it measured 7 Volts?, I went to the battery and tested it, 12 volts. Is this correct?, I did not hear a click as you described?. The lift arms still do not move but the tilt cylinder moves a couple of inches. Any ideas?, Thanks
try hotwiring the solinoid with some wire from the batt and ground the other side Good luck Jeff
 

skidsteer.ca

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I will try that thanks, if it works what do I do to get the same results when the ignition is on?.
You should get the same result when you bics lights are all lit. Ie key on and press to operate green button activated. Or if your machine has no “press to operate” button the it has a seat switch that must be compressed and another switch on the seat bar and the combination of these two lights the bics lights and send power to the coil.
I'l check the voltage and sound on mine and post it for you. I saying sound based on the 3rd valve (quick couplers) on my 773. But is the same principle. Maybe with 7 volts you have a bad wire or a poor ground somewhere.
Ken
 

skidsteer.ca

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You should get the same result when you bics lights are all lit. Ie key on and press to operate green button activated. Or if your machine has no “press to operate” button the it has a seat switch that must be compressed and another switch on the seat bar and the combination of these two lights the bics lights and send power to the coil.
I'l check the voltage and sound on mine and post it for you. I saying sound based on the 3rd valve (quick couplers) on my 773. But is the same principle. Maybe with 7 volts you have a bad wire or a poor ground somewhere.
Ken
The needle is inside the piece with the orings on it and the magnetic field the coil generates moves the needle to open or close the valve. I had to unplug my parking brake solinoid b4 I could hear the valve. (PB is in the center of the machine, middle chaincase cover, under seat, 3 large wire coming from it, standing on its end) which make the loud “click” you here when you push the green button or lower your seat bar (which ever you happen to have). I had my wife listen but even standing up in front of the cab with the cab up I could here it click by turning the key on and off. It had only 7.8 volts across the 2 wires with the coil unplugged. You should test your coil resistance (ohms) to be certain it is not burnt out. There must be continuity between the two wires, I'm unsure of the ohms but guessing 150 to 200, defintely not zero 0. Guess I should have checked that.
If your not hearing the click, check the ohms , if you get 150 or so try hot wiring with 12 volts, but don't leave it connected to long, 12volts may be to much and burn out the coil. But with no click and 7 volts coming to it sounds like your coil may be burnt out, ie open circuit, 0 ohms. If you take it to bobcat to get a new one they could tell you the ohms it should have or test it for you.
I never though to look if the coils on the main hyd valve (for your 3rd valve/ quick couplers) are the same. if they look alike you could swap, test and compare, etc. You won't need your 3rd valve if you boom don't move.
Ken
 

skidsteer.ca

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The needle is inside the piece with the orings on it and the magnetic field the coil generates moves the needle to open or close the valve. I had to unplug my parking brake solinoid b4 I could hear the valve. (PB is in the center of the machine, middle chaincase cover, under seat, 3 large wire coming from it, standing on its end) which make the loud “click” you here when you push the green button or lower your seat bar (which ever you happen to have). I had my wife listen but even standing up in front of the cab with the cab up I could here it click by turning the key on and off. It had only 7.8 volts across the 2 wires with the coil unplugged. You should test your coil resistance (ohms) to be certain it is not burnt out. There must be continuity between the two wires, I'm unsure of the ohms but guessing 150 to 200, defintely not zero 0. Guess I should have checked that.
If your not hearing the click, check the ohms , if you get 150 or so try hot wiring with 12 volts, but don't leave it connected to long, 12volts may be to much and burn out the coil. But with no click and 7 volts coming to it sounds like your coil may be burnt out, ie open circuit, 0 ohms. If you take it to bobcat to get a new one they could tell you the ohms it should have or test it for you.
I never though to look if the coils on the main hyd valve (for your 3rd valve/ quick couplers) are the same. if they look alike you could swap, test and compare, etc. You won't need your 3rd valve if you boom don't move.
Ken
The resistance off that coil is 10.6 ohms on my 853 and the coil is different then the 3rd valve coils.
Also on the nut (that holds the coil to the stem) is marked “do not exceed 5 ft lbs when tightening” This is important when installing any of these coils as overtightening will distart the stem (piece with o rings on) and the needle will bind inside the stem. The last stem i bought for my 773 was $104.00
My bucket tilt cylinder will move a inch or 2 with the safety valve locked, but the boom will barely move at all.
Ken
 
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