743 rattle whine trouble shoot help requested

[DeesLLfitER dave743]

OK NEED YOUR HELP PLEASE last 3 days herky jerky travel once or twice but yesterday got worse quickly , rattling and clunking coincident with the herky jerky, some whineing also. its degraded to a whine louder then the engine when any load is put on it at all, meaning raising or tilting the bucket and or attempting to dirve the wheels either side. I shut it down quickly after cooling over nite I was hopeing oil would cool and heal itself LOL no luck there either. what I have checked so far:............ enigne starts and runs great no leaks park brake mount bolts a little loose used a mirror to look in flywheel area bearly see with one eye ,ujoints and Grease fitting very dry and visible rust oil levels fine, filters fairly new AND read some of great threads here !! anyones thoughts appreciated cavitation? pumps and or bearings? relief valve? I am mechanically inclined but am totallly new to skid steers( my first time lifting the cab,have owned it about a month and used it 4 or 5 times, thinking back now it did seem quieter sometimes more then others, but i had no reference point, its sure loud enough now!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Tazza]

Is it only your drive? or is it lift and tilt? Does it do it when sitting still, wheels not moving.
Check the oil, is it foamy at all?

 

[Tazza]

Is it only your drive? or is it lift and tilt? Does it do it when sitting still, wheels not moving.
Check the oil, is it foamy at all?

Does the pump heat up quickly?

 

[DeesLLfitER dave743]

Does the pump heat up quickly?

it was whining as soon as I started it stone cold today. no rattle today just a loud whine, and gets even louder when you try to operate any of the controls , wheels lift tilt , and if you rev the engine the whine is more rapid, seems tied to RPM at idle its less rapid whine.

 

[DeesLLfitER dave743]

it was whining as soon as I started it stone cold today. no rattle today just a loud whine, and gets even louder when you try to operate any of the controls , wheels lift tilt , and if you rev the engine the whine is more rapid, seems tied to RPM at idle its less rapid whine.

oh, and the pump was cold after running 2 times for a minute or so each time, today

 

[DeesLLfitER dave743]

oh, and the pump was cold after running 2 times for a minute or so each time, today

and no foamy oil

 

[DeesLLfitER dave743]

and no foamy oil

yes it whines just sitting there under no load, sort of sounds like gear teeth not meshing, like shifting a car without the clutch, not that I have done that, or at least will admit to.

 

[bobbie-g]

yes it whines just sitting there under no load, sort of sounds like gear teeth not meshing, like shifting a car without the clutch, not that I have done that, or at least will admit to.

Sorry to mention something so trivial, but I didn't see in your original post that you actually had checked the hydraulic oil level. ---RC

 

[Tazza]

Sorry to mention something so trivial, but I didn't see in your original post that you actually had checked the hydraulic oil level. ---RC

Not sure where to go. Have you tried loading the system? like push on a tree and get the wheels to spin? dead end your cylinders by pishing the lift arms down with the pedal to load the hydraulic pump. All three pumps are joined inline by splined shafts and collars. The main input shaft from the motor is the same. Its doubtful, but possible one of these is slipping?
Its one of those things thats really hard to work out without seeing or hearing it. The pumps and motors do make a noise, but you get used to the right noise and anything else is bad.

 

[DeesLLfitER dave743]

Not sure where to go. Have you tried loading the system? like push on a tree and get the wheels to spin? dead end your cylinders by pishing the lift arms down with the pedal to load the hydraulic pump. All three pumps are joined inline by splined shafts and collars. The main input shaft from the motor is the same. Its doubtful, but possible one of these is slipping?
Its one of those things thats really hard to work out without seeing or hearing it. The pumps and motors do make a noise, but you get used to the right noise and anything else is bad.

yes hydraulic oilevel is good maybe over full a little, wheels do turn. so i woke this morning with a thought to grease those u joints, and I am thinking i just need to remove the engine mount bolts and slide it back a few inches to do a reach around the flywheel to access it, without removing any wiring or other engine attachment things. does this sound right to any of you pros out there?. thanks for the ideas so far. dave

 

[jerry]

yes hydraulic oilevel is good maybe over full a little, wheels do turn. so i woke this morning with a thought to grease those u joints, and I am thinking i just need to remove the engine mount bolts and slide it back a few inches to do a reach around the flywheel to access it, without removing any wiring or other engine attachment things. does this sound right to any of you pros out there?. thanks for the ideas so far. dave

Are the auxillary hydraulics engaged? Make sure the right hand lever is has not stuck in outward position. I think you can access the u-joint by lifting cab and lying on the pumps. It may not be easy but it can be done.

 

[DeesLLfitER dave743]

Are the auxillary hydraulics engaged? Make sure the right hand lever is has not stuck in outward position. I think you can access the u-joint by lifting cab and lying on the pumps. It may not be easy but it can be done.

Jerry thanks I checked the lever aux position, but tommorow i will check the linkage to the valve and be sure that it is nuetral there too. Also just looked at lying on the pumps and yes i think I can reach it,I was wondering last nite sitting in my recliner that there has got to be a place for air to get in to the shroud ... thnaks! so now i am thinking i will feel around in there if i don't feel any bolts sheared , then i 'll grease it and fire it up one more time,.........if need be after taht then slide the enigne , or maybe just pull it totally out, its in the back woods of my home though , draggn tools out there, is there a way to nuetral the drive wheels so i can drag it with a 4x4 quad? Thanks Jerry and others for the help and tips I will update thur nite or friday dave

 

[Tazza]

Jerry thanks I checked the lever aux position, but tommorow i will check the linkage to the valve and be sure that it is nuetral there too. Also just looked at lying on the pumps and yes i think I can reach it,I was wondering last nite sitting in my recliner that there has got to be a place for air to get in to the shroud ... thnaks! so now i am thinking i will feel around in there if i don't feel any bolts sheared , then i 'll grease it and fire it up one more time,.........if need be after taht then slide the enigne , or maybe just pull it totally out, its in the back woods of my home though , draggn tools out there, is there a way to nuetral the drive wheels so i can drag it with a 4x4 quad? Thanks Jerry and others for the help and tips I will update thur nite or friday dave

Sadly there is no way to get it to free-wheel so you can drag it, the hydraulics lock the wheels up.

 

[DeesLLfitER dave743]

Sadly there is no way to get it to free-wheel so you can drag it, the hydraulics lock the wheels up.

OK rattle , clunk and whine update I pulled the engine and the u joints one cross was nearly disintegrated, spline internal and external on pump were stripped to the point where the ujoints rotates around the shaft with a ractchet sound , i am relieved to find the problem, only issue the spline does not easily pull off the keyed pump shaft, i will get replacement parts tommorow and make another attempt to get that spline off , torch will be the last resort, probably replce the pump seal at that point. You all were a great help Thank You !!!!!!!

 

[Tazza]

OK rattle , clunk and whine update I pulled the engine and the u joints one cross was nearly disintegrated, spline internal and external on pump were stripped to the point where the ujoints rotates around the shaft with a ractchet sound , i am relieved to find the problem, only issue the spline does not easily pull off the keyed pump shaft, i will get replacement parts tommorow and make another attempt to get that spline off , torch will be the last resort, probably replce the pump seal at that point. You all were a great help Thank You !!!!!!!

To remove the splined shaft on the pump you will need a puller. You may even need to grind a flat on the arms to make it fit behind the splined coupler. Install it and put pressure on the splines, hit the nut on the puller to shock it off the shaft. Its a key and taper fit, its very tight, but this way will get it off, i did this myself about 2 months ago to replace a seal.

 

[DeesLLfitER dave743]

To remove the splined shaft on the pump you will need a puller. You may even need to grind a flat on the arms to make it fit behind the splined coupler. Install it and put pressure on the splines, hit the nut on the puller to shock it off the shaft. Its a key and taper fit, its very tight, but this way will get it off, i did this myself about 2 months ago to replace a seal.

AAaaa taper fit, got it thanks, I will "hit" it today I tried a small puller but i was a little concerned with rapping it to hard and dmage something it the pump, but i will get my larger puller on it and hit it harder. yes my seal looks like it seeping a little so that will be replace while we are in there Thanks again!!!!!!!!!!! dave

 

[Tazza]

AAaaa taper fit, got it thanks, I will "hit" it today I tried a small puller but i was a little concerned with rapping it to hard and dmage something it the pump, but i will get my larger puller on it and hit it harder. yes my seal looks like it seeping a little so that will be replace while we are in there Thanks again!!!!!!!!!!! dave

To replace the seal, drill a small hole in it, screw in a self tapping screw and use pliers to remove it. Very simple.

 

[DeesLLfitER dave743]

To replace the seal, drill a small hole in it, screw in a self tapping screw and use pliers to remove it. Very simple.

I had not thought of that either, sounds great Thank You Tazza dave

 

[Tazza]

I had not thought of that either, sounds great Thank You Tazza dave

Just don't drill too deep as there is a bearing about 1/2" further back from the seal, any swarf will be pushed out by the oil. Just have the seal ready to go in, the oil won't gush out, but it will flow a bit.
I found a nice way to get it to mount up square too, tap it in place with a punch then when its about far enough for the snap ring to locate it, push it in, then gently and slowly tap around it till it snaps in place. One part will engage first then simply tap around the other parts till it seats. I was amazed just how simple it was. I was expecting a battle to get it to locate.
One other note, make sure there are no burs from where the puller may touch the housing, give it a quick dressing with a die grinder or something, you don't want to damage the outer part of the seal where it presses into the housing.