731 steering problem

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wizard

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Just bought a 731 running,rolling but can't seem to be able to go left or right. I dived right in following the manual, ck'd all pumps, and motors but can't seem to turn.
 

sterlclan

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does it even try to turn? groaning? on some older machines the steering pintle levers wear or even break or could be the replenshing valves or springs behind them good luck Jeff
 

Tazza

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does it even try to turn? groaning? on some older machines the steering pintle levers wear or even break or could be the replenshing valves or springs behind them good luck Jeff
If it just makes LOUD growling noises and tries to turn, it is most likley your bronze filter. It is located on the left hand side of the port block (the square block that sits on top of the hydraulic pump). There are 3 hoses that enter the left side, you want the middle one. Remove the hose and plug it so that oil doesn't go everywhere, then remove the fitting, the filter is located behind it, and is held in place with a spring. These can be cleaned with kero, but honestly, for the price just replace it. Good luck
 

JustAwrench

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If it just makes LOUD growling noises and tries to turn, it is most likley your bronze filter. It is located on the left hand side of the port block (the square block that sits on top of the hydraulic pump). There are 3 hoses that enter the left side, you want the middle one. Remove the hose and plug it so that oil doesn't go everywhere, then remove the fitting, the filter is located behind it, and is held in place with a spring. These can be cleaned with kero, but honestly, for the price just replace it. Good luck
Do the hydraulics work? The hydraulic pump is also the charge pump(if memory serves)-if its worn, busted shaft(common failure), etc, you'll get that symptom-no oil in the hydrostats. I think that was a vickers vane pump-let us know what you find!
 

Tazza

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Do the hydraulics work? The hydraulic pump is also the charge pump(if memory serves)-if its worn, busted shaft(common failure), etc, you'll get that symptom-no oil in the hydrostats. I think that was a vickers vane pump-let us know what you find!
Shane is correct, the hydraulic pump is also the charge pump. It is a Vickers vane pump. If you need any information on it just yell, i have the service manual for this machine as the 731 was/is my first baby, untill i get my 743 going (engine arriving this week).
 

wizard

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does it even try to turn? groaning? on some older machines the steering pintle levers wear or even break or could be the replenshing valves or springs behind them good luck Jeff
Yes it appears to have a slight turn, but nothing to jump for joy. And yes it groans some like it's fighting from one side to the other. I'll check the replenishing valves once more.Thanks for the info and the much needed luck. I'll also be replacing the filter, it looked clean but it can't hurt. As for the hyd. pump the guy I baught it from he said he had done some work on it but it hurt to tear in to it again. again thanks for all this good info Rudy
 

Tazza

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Yes it appears to have a slight turn, but nothing to jump for joy. And yes it groans some like it's fighting from one side to the other. I'll check the replenishing valves once more.Thanks for the info and the much needed luck. I'll also be replacing the filter, it looked clean but it can't hurt. As for the hyd. pump the guy I baught it from he said he had done some work on it but it hurt to tear in to it again. again thanks for all this good info Rudy
On mine, the bronze filter looked clean too, but it refused to work. There were no filters available locally so i sprayed it with kery and attacked it with a high pressure cleaner and it did the trick (after drying it in the oven of course). The bobcat would drive in a straight line (only just) but growled when you tried to go up a hill or turn. I wish you luck, they are a good machine. Just keep the engines cooling system clean! Deutz engines are not cheap to fix. ooh, one thing if you didn't know, when starting it in cold weather, push the throttle forward a bit and press the button on the injector. This is an excessive fuel button, it will fire up almost instantly when you crank it over. ooh so many days i used to crank it over untill the battery was almost flat before it started......
 

wizard

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On mine, the bronze filter looked clean too, but it refused to work. There were no filters available locally so i sprayed it with kery and attacked it with a high pressure cleaner and it did the trick (after drying it in the oven of course). The bobcat would drive in a straight line (only just) but growled when you tried to go up a hill or turn. I wish you luck, they are a good machine. Just keep the engines cooling system clean! Deutz engines are not cheap to fix. ooh, one thing if you didn't know, when starting it in cold weather, push the throttle forward a bit and press the button on the injector. This is an excessive fuel button, it will fire up almost instantly when you crank it over. ooh so many days i used to crank it over untill the battery was almost flat before it started......
Yes let me yell at you for a bit. Help me out here, if you could check your manual and shed some light on me. the manual shows to connect the hoses from the hydrostatic pump to the motors according to the way they rotate. I had the right motor lines crossed, I swapped them, but now I can't go in a straight line, but am able to steer. The only problem is that the levers work opposite each other. The left side seams to work fine, by fine I mean fwd on lever it rolls fwd. On right side it works opposite, lever fwd it rolls back. could this mean as Shane mentioned it could be my hyd. pump.
 

Tazza

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Yes let me yell at you for a bit. Help me out here, if you could check your manual and shed some light on me. the manual shows to connect the hoses from the hydrostatic pump to the motors according to the way they rotate. I had the right motor lines crossed, I swapped them, but now I can't go in a straight line, but am able to steer. The only problem is that the levers work opposite each other. The left side seams to work fine, by fine I mean fwd on lever it rolls fwd. On right side it works opposite, lever fwd it rolls back. could this mean as Shane mentioned it could be my hyd. pump.
I can scan in the pages that will show you how to connect the hydrostatic motors up. I will do it today at work. Just to be sure you have them correct.
 

Tazza

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I can scan in the pages that will show you how to connect the hydrostatic motors up. I will do it today at work. Just to be sure you have them correct.
This is a scan from my parts manual: http://users.tpg.com.au/tazza_/731%20hydrostatics.jpg I hope this will help you out, as i used this diagram to put my hydrostatics back together a few months back after i got new hoses. If you need any more piccies just let me know. Good luck. Taryn
 

wizard

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This is a scan from my parts manual: http://users.tpg.com.au/tazza_/731%20hydrostatics.jpg I hope this will help you out, as i used this diagram to put my hydrostatics back together a few months back after i got new hoses. If you need any more piccies just let me know. Good luck. Taryn
Thanks for line routing Tazza. I was off on left field. I'll try routing them according to this mode. Thanks again and wish me luck, I'll let you know if I have success. Rudy
 

wizard

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Thanks for line routing Tazza. I was off on left field. I'll try routing them according to this mode. Thanks again and wish me luck, I'll let you know if I have success. Rudy
Good news I now have steering thanks to Tazza. I wanted to thank everybody for their much needed input to get me turning in the right directions. Now I need to remove the tilt cylinder which has a leak. But once again my BOBCAT FRIENDS THANK YOU. RUDY
 

Tazza

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Good news I now have steering thanks to Tazza. I wanted to thank everybody for their much needed input to get me turning in the right directions. Now I need to remove the tilt cylinder which has a leak. But once again my BOBCAT FRIENDS THANK YOU. RUDY
Excellent! Good luck with the oil leak, i get my seals from a local shop, they are MUCH cheaper than genuine Bobcat ones. If you haven't worked on hydraulic rams before there are a few things you have to remember, and if you know what your doing ignore what i'm about to say. When you install new seals lube the bore, all O rings and seals before you assemble them to prevent pinching and damage. Make sure you install the pressure seal the rite way around too. Always replace both piston and pressure seals in one go, never do just one, this will save you a headache later on.
 

wizard

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Excellent! Good luck with the oil leak, i get my seals from a local shop, they are MUCH cheaper than genuine Bobcat ones. If you haven't worked on hydraulic rams before there are a few things you have to remember, and if you know what your doing ignore what i'm about to say. When you install new seals lube the bore, all O rings and seals before you assemble them to prevent pinching and damage. Make sure you install the pressure seal the rite way around too. Always replace both piston and pressure seals in one go, never do just one, this will save you a headache later on.
SORRY FOR BEING OUT OF TOUCH,BUT HERE I AM AGAIN. I'VE FIXED MOST LEAKS TO BE OF MOST CONCERN ABOUT, REPLACED ALMOST ALL OF THE HYD. LINES REGARDLES IF THEY WERE LEAKING OR NOT, I JUST THOUGHT THEY WERE NOT SAFE BY THEIR LOOKS. EVERY THING SEAMS TO BE WORKING GREAT. BUT! OKAY HERE COMES THE BUT. I DO NEED SOME HELP WITH SOME ELECT.. IF SOME ONE HAS A CLEAR DIAGRAM OF THE WIRING GOING FROM THE CAGE PANEL TO THE STARTER, SENSORS & ETC.. TAZZA WAS GREAT HELP WITH MY LAST PROBLEM, STEERING ME IN THE RIGHT & LEFT DIRECTIONS. IF YOUR OUT THERE TAZZA I KNOW YOU HAVE OR HAD A 731. I'M STILL TRYING TO RESTORE THIS BASKET CASE. THE PERSON I BOUGHT IT FROM SOLD IT TO ME IN BAD CONDITION. IT NEEDS ALL THE GAGES, BUT I DON'T HAVE A CLUE ABOUT THE WIRING WITHOUT A DIAGRAM. THE COPY OF THE BOOK THAT THE GUY GAVE ME WHEN I BOUGHT THE LOADER IS NOT TOO CLEAR. RUDY
 

Tazza

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SORRY FOR BEING OUT OF TOUCH,BUT HERE I AM AGAIN. I'VE FIXED MOST LEAKS TO BE OF MOST CONCERN ABOUT, REPLACED ALMOST ALL OF THE HYD. LINES REGARDLES IF THEY WERE LEAKING OR NOT, I JUST THOUGHT THEY WERE NOT SAFE BY THEIR LOOKS. EVERY THING SEAMS TO BE WORKING GREAT. BUT! OKAY HERE COMES THE BUT. I DO NEED SOME HELP WITH SOME ELECT.. IF SOME ONE HAS A CLEAR DIAGRAM OF THE WIRING GOING FROM THE CAGE PANEL TO THE STARTER, SENSORS & ETC.. TAZZA WAS GREAT HELP WITH MY LAST PROBLEM, STEERING ME IN THE RIGHT & LEFT DIRECTIONS. IF YOUR OUT THERE TAZZA I KNOW YOU HAVE OR HAD A 731. I'M STILL TRYING TO RESTORE THIS BASKET CASE. THE PERSON I BOUGHT IT FROM SOLD IT TO ME IN BAD CONDITION. IT NEEDS ALL THE GAGES, BUT I DON'T HAVE A CLUE ABOUT THE WIRING WITHOUT A DIAGRAM. THE COPY OF THE BOOK THAT THE GUY GAVE ME WHEN I BOUGHT THE LOADER IS NOT TOO CLEAR. RUDY
I do have a wiring diagram, BUT i think my diagram will be just as bad as yours.
The electrics are the easy part, give me a few more details and see if we can work through it.
You said it needed the gauges, you mean they just don't work? first of all, check the fuses AND the fuse holders. Mine had green crusty stuff on them and chewed through the connections. If so, change the holders and fittings.
Now, on mine i also changed the fittings on the left side where the wires go down to the engine bay as they had corrosion. I can't remember how many wires there were but i used a new 8 pin fitting, i combined a few redundant earths so i would have enough pins. I don't believe this is will be your problem, as if it starts you are getting power to your panel.
Let me know what you need exactly and i can get piccies of mine or diagrams.
 

wizard

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I do have a wiring diagram, BUT i think my diagram will be just as bad as yours.
The electrics are the easy part, give me a few more details and see if we can work through it.
You said it needed the gauges, you mean they just don't work? first of all, check the fuses AND the fuse holders. Mine had green crusty stuff on them and chewed through the connections. If so, change the holders and fittings.
Now, on mine i also changed the fittings on the left side where the wires go down to the engine bay as they had corrosion. I can't remember how many wires there were but i used a new 8 pin fitting, i combined a few redundant earths so i would have enough pins. I don't believe this is will be your problem, as if it starts you are getting power to your panel.
Let me know what you need exactly and i can get piccies of mine or diagrams.
NO I MEANT JUST WHAT I SAID, THE GAGES ARE MISSING COMPLETELY. I'M GOING TO HAVE TO BUY NEW ONES. THE PANEL WAS MORE OR LESS STRIPPED, THE ONLY THING THEY LEFT WAS THE IGNITION SWITCH, BUT EVEN THAT IS DISCONNECTED FROM THE STARTER. IT LOOKS TO ME LIKE THE WIRE HARNESS IS ALL THERE, BUT I COULD BE WRONG. ALL THAT IS LEFT AT THE END WHERE THE GAGES GO ARE WIRES, WITHOUT CONNETORS. JUST WIRE STRANDS. AS FOR THE SENSORS I'M NOT SURE WHICH WIRES GO WHERE, BUT IT LOOKS LIKE I HAVE WIRES THAT COULD VERY WELL BE ROUTED TO THE SENSORS. BUT ALSO WITHOUT CONNECTORS. SO BASICLY NONE OF THE WIRES ARE CONNECTED, IM STARTING THE BEAST THE OLD FASHION WAY, AT THE STARTER ITSELF WITH A SCREW STICK, IF YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN. THANKS AGAIN TAZZA, ANY THING WOULD HELP AT THIS STAGE. LIKE I MENTIONED BEFORE, I BOUGHT A BASKET CASE, OR SHOUD I SAY A RUNNING BASKET CASE. DON'T GET ME WRONG I'M HAVING FUN TRYING TO WEAVE IT BACK TOGETHER.
 

Tazza

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NO I MEANT JUST WHAT I SAID, THE GAGES ARE MISSING COMPLETELY. I'M GOING TO HAVE TO BUY NEW ONES. THE PANEL WAS MORE OR LESS STRIPPED, THE ONLY THING THEY LEFT WAS THE IGNITION SWITCH, BUT EVEN THAT IS DISCONNECTED FROM THE STARTER. IT LOOKS TO ME LIKE THE WIRE HARNESS IS ALL THERE, BUT I COULD BE WRONG. ALL THAT IS LEFT AT THE END WHERE THE GAGES GO ARE WIRES, WITHOUT CONNETORS. JUST WIRE STRANDS. AS FOR THE SENSORS I'M NOT SURE WHICH WIRES GO WHERE, BUT IT LOOKS LIKE I HAVE WIRES THAT COULD VERY WELL BE ROUTED TO THE SENSORS. BUT ALSO WITHOUT CONNECTORS. SO BASICLY NONE OF THE WIRES ARE CONNECTED, IM STARTING THE BEAST THE OLD FASHION WAY, AT THE STARTER ITSELF WITH A SCREW STICK, IF YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN. THANKS AGAIN TAZZA, ANY THING WOULD HELP AT THIS STAGE. LIKE I MENTIONED BEFORE, I BOUGHT A BASKET CASE, OR SHOUD I SAY A RUNNING BASKET CASE. DON'T GET ME WRONG I'M HAVING FUN TRYING TO WEAVE IT BACK TOGETHER.
I know the feeling, i am very happy with the result from my many months of work on my 731. As for gauges, you will have an ammeter on the left, a fuel level on the right and also an hour meter on the right. All these parts will be available from bobcat for a price.....

For the gauges, all you need is common power then the key is in the onposition and 1 wire from the fuel tank to the sense connector. As for the other ones, you will have 2 lamps on the panel, one is for engine fuel pressure the other is hydro pressure and hydro temp.

I know it all sounds like a nightmare, but work on 1 part at a time. Get the key to start the engine first, then do the volt meter, then the fuel gauge etc.

I can try and get you a scan on the wiring diagram, but as i said, it is not very good.... if you do want it just yell.
 

wizard

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I know the feeling, i am very happy with the result from my many months of work on my 731. As for gauges, you will have an ammeter on the left, a fuel level on the right and also an hour meter on the right. All these parts will be available from bobcat for a price.....

For the gauges, all you need is common power then the key is in the onposition and 1 wire from the fuel tank to the sense connector. As for the other ones, you will have 2 lamps on the panel, one is for engine fuel pressure the other is hydro pressure and hydro temp.

I know it all sounds like a nightmare, but work on 1 part at a time. Get the key to start the engine first, then do the volt meter, then the fuel gauge etc.

I can try and get you a scan on the wiring diagram, but as i said, it is not very good.... if you do want it just yell.
I'm having problems with my wiring at the ignition switch. I tried to follow the wiring diagrams as best that I could, or should I say dicypher on my 3rd or 4th generation copy. Correct me if i'm wrong (bat. + to starter +),(starter + to alt. bat. post), (alt. #2 lead to starter +), (alt #1 lead to Ign. of switch with diode pointing > alt.),(starter + to bat. of Ign. switch),(starter S lead to st. of Ign. switch). The problem I'm having is that when I turn the key to the right One click the engine starts. Did I read wrong maybe crossing a wire somewhere. TAZZA you have a 731 model shed some light, also send me a copy of the wiring so I can double check everything. It's a 731 SN# 5006M12048, at least thats what the plate on the frame has. Let me give you my E-Mail [email protected] Again Thanks To All RUDY
 

Tazza

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I'm having problems with my wiring at the ignition switch. I tried to follow the wiring diagrams as best that I could, or should I say dicypher on my 3rd or 4th generation copy. Correct me if i'm wrong (bat. + to starter +),(starter + to alt. bat. post), (alt. #2 lead to starter +), (alt #1 lead to Ign. of switch with diode pointing > alt.),(starter + to bat. of Ign. switch),(starter S lead to st. of Ign. switch). The problem I'm having is that when I turn the key to the right One click the engine starts. Did I read wrong maybe crossing a wire somewhere. TAZZA you have a 731 model shed some light, also send me a copy of the wiring so I can double check everything. It's a 731 SN# 5006M12048, at least thats what the plate on the frame has. Let me give you my E-Mail [email protected] Again Thanks To All RUDY
Ok, i will scan mine in at work tomorrow for ya.

I don't know what the quality will be like, as mine are copies too.

The switch i am using in mine now is actually a rider mower switch, it works a treat. Honestly, your best bet for working it all out us to use a test light. Remove the starter connection from the switch. Ground the light to the chassis and turn the key to accessories (1 click) then move it 1 more to start, look for a connection that is live, and when you let it spring back to accessories it should go dead. Hook your starter to this point. If you are concerned that the switch won't handle the current to the starter motor, add a relay to the switch. The accessory part is just to power your hour meter, fuel gauge and warning lights for hydrostatic pressure and engine oil pressure (mine doesn't have an engine temperature gauge).

Now, mine had a problem with the alternator from the previous owner, i hooked a diode and light bulb so i know when it was charging or not. Watch the direction of the diode, if its backwards it will not charge.

I will take some piccies of the panel for you tonight too and send these off, i will send the scans tomorrow.

Any other problems just ask.
 
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