853, blowing eng fuses hot wired now aux hyd no worky

So, I was using my 853 and all of a sudden it died. No slow death but an abrupt stop. Checked a couple things, and finally found the engine fuse had blown, grabbed the other and swapped it over. It ran for about 5 min then blew again. Did this a couple more times to get it in a good spot to work on it, each time it would blow faster, then it ended up blowing the moment the key was turned to run, not even start. So Having a need to spread 40 yds of loam that was delivered I did a semi quick diagnostic and bought a dozen more fuses and found there to be 2 orange wires and a blue wire on the run terminal of the ignition switch, the wires all seemed to relate to running the bobcat, so one at a time disconnect and reconnect to find the fault. Ended up being an org and a blue wire that were factory joined causing the issue, cut the org off and it runs and has gauges. Finished the job and brought it home. So this was about 2 weeks ago and haven't delved into the "short" yet, I had a suspicion that it may have to do with the aux hyd circuit, per the wiring diagram.....Now this machine hasn't been cut up that much that I could tell. After doing some more research and checking the parts manual, and the service manual, I have come to the conclusion that there are several types of aux. hyd. on these. A: built from factory with the aux in the hydraulic control valve, with the control module B: opt. "maybe dealer installed?" aux control valve under seat on left hand side C: JEM - select valve? D: Apitech valve I believe I have "A" because I have no separate aux valve as it shows in the parts or service manual. Now there is no way in hell that I'm even going to consider bending over for a control module from bobcat. So I would simple bypass the control module and rig up a switch and some relays to accommodate the aux valve electrics. So my ?....I know long winded.....would the solenoids be shorting out? I highly doubt it, the fact that the fuses had a incremental death march from 5 min to nothing would indicate in my mind that it may be the control module....ie: circuits frying inside. And yes I checked out all wiring for cuts and scrapes for shorts. Thoughts?

I am knee deep in my 853H trying to get the AUX hydraulics working, my module is missing, the one that bolts to the inside right side of the frame, between the 2 wheels, up inside the lip of the frame. Mine is missing so I have been studying the drawings as well, trying to figure out how to get AUX without the module.
So, were you using AUX when the machine quit? How do you activate AUX hydraulics on yours? Button on the left key panel, with 2 LEDs to indicate functions? Do you have high flow hydraulics? ie is your 853H? How many AUX ports on your machine? ie 2 on the front, 2 on the rear? If you look under the cab, left side, the main big hydraulic control valve, there will be 2 solenoids on the inside side of the bog block, ie they point into the center of the machine, those are your hydraulic solenoids. I have a chart showing what the voltages are and from what I have learned, is these are PWM controlled by the little black module I described earlier, right side under the frame lip, just in front of the charge pressure transducer.
My suggestion to confirm if it's the module, is try disconnecting the 2 plugs from that black module, reconnect the blue/orange wires on your ignition and see if that stops the fuse blowing. Not sure what would cause that to short, especially if you weren't using AUX at the time, but it also could be the harness as it snakes down the cab, and also connects to the engine harness. You could also just disconnect this harness, 2 plugs one under the cab, top right side, I think it's 8 pin?? standing in front of the machine, and a 10 pin similar style plug on the right side of the engine, again under the cab, near the alternator, connected to the big main engine harness. If you get lost in there, shoot some pics of the area and I can guide you. My harness is missing but I know where it all connects.
Cheers

kilohertz said:

I am knee deep in my 853H trying to get the AUX hydraulics working, my module is missing, the one that bolts to the inside right side of the frame, between the 2 wheels, up inside the lip of the frame. Mine is missing so I have been studying the drawings as well, trying to figure out how to get AUX without the module.
So, were you using AUX when the machine quit? How do you activate AUX hydraulics on yours? Button on the left key panel, with 2 LEDs to indicate functions? Do you have high flow hydraulics? ie is your 853H? How many AUX ports on your machine? ie 2 on the front, 2 on the rear? If you look under the cab, left side, the main big hydraulic control valve, there will be 2 solenoids on the inside side of the bog block, ie they point into the center of the machine, those are your hydraulic solenoids. I have a chart showing what the voltages are and from what I have learned, is these are PWM controlled by the little black module I described earlier, right side under the frame lip, just in front of the charge pressure transducer.
My suggestion to confirm if it's the module, is try disconnecting the 2 plugs from that black module, reconnect the blue/orange wires on your ignition and see if that stops the fuse blowing. Not sure what would cause that to short, especially if you weren't using AUX at the time, but it also could be the harness as it snakes down the cab, and also connects to the engine harness. You could also just disconnect this harness, 2 plugs one under the cab, top right side, I think it's 8 pin?? standing in front of the machine, and a 10 pin similar style plug on the right side of the engine, again under the cab, near the alternator, connected to the big main engine harness. If you get lost in there, shoot some pics of the area and I can guide you. My harness is missing but I know where it all connects.
Cheers

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I meant big hydraulic block, not bog.
And you have probably already figured this out, but I think all the orange wires in the machine are switched main power, red/white stripe are battery, orange switched battery. My cab harness had been lopped off right at the key panel so I have a bundle of wires sticking out and I have 4 oranges in there, and 3 red/whites. I put in a switch to get my machine started and the alternater charging and still have to figure out where all the other 18 wires go.
BTW, is your machine a BOSS?

kilohertz said:

I meant big hydraulic block, not bog.
And you have probably already figured this out, but I think all the orange wires in the machine are switched main power, red/white stripe are battery, orange switched battery. My cab harness had been lopped off right at the key panel so I have a bundle of wires sticking out and I have 4 oranges in there, and 3 red/whites. I put in a switch to get my machine started and the alternater charging and still have to figure out where all the other 18 wires go.
BTW, is your machine a BOSS?

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not a BOSS, aux front only, not high output, wasn't running the aux when it died. will try to post some pics later today. ur right about the colors of the wiring. and the panel on the left has the leds and the push button switch, already fixed that one from a nasty mouse, had to clean the circuit brd and resolder some leds in for it to work. I read somewhere that u cant just buy the switch

slik rik said:

not a BOSS, aux front only, not high output, wasn't running the aux when it died. will try to post some pics later today. ur right about the colors of the wiring. and the panel on the left has the leds and the push button switch, already fixed that one from a nasty mouse, had to clean the circuit brd and resolder some leds in for it to work. I read somewhere that u cant just buy the switch

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so heres some pics of the control clusters this is the key switch you can see the orange wire that is causing the issue with blowing the fuses, I isolated as best I could to finish the job, raining all week here first time I got a chance to check it out. hour meter is toast, bypassed gauge side ignition side this is the aux button with leds, already repaired this with soldering in new leds and a jumper....f'n mice fkd it lite switch fuses

slik rik said:

so heres some pics of the control clusters this is the key switch you can see the orange wire that is causing the issue with blowing the fuses, I isolated as best I could to finish the job, raining all week here first time I got a chance to check it out. hour meter is toast, bypassed gauge side ignition side this is the aux button with leds, already repaired this with soldering in new leds and a jumper....f'n mice fkd it lite switch fuses

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so my plan moving forward, pu more fuses. Remove every plugged in item in the aux path, control module, aux button, wires to control stick and the wires to the valve solenoids, then connect till it dies........So far the only thing that doesn't seem to work is the aux hydro, so hopefully that will be the answer. If not then I will start disconnecting other things. When I started this I also disconnected the alt, and it didn't stop the blowing, so I know the charging circuit is fine.

slik rik said:

so my plan moving forward, pu more fuses. Remove every plugged in item in the aux path, control module, aux button, wires to control stick and the wires to the valve solenoids, then connect till it dies........So far the only thing that doesn't seem to work is the aux hydro, so hopefully that will be the answer. If not then I will start disconnecting other things. When I started this I also disconnected the alt, and it didn't stop the blowing, so I know the charging circuit is fine.

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DONT KNOW Y THIS WONT GO RIGHT SIDE UP?

slik rik said:

DONT KNOW Y THIS WONT GO RIGHT SIDE UP?

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OKay, I think I will be able to help you, but I am working this weekend and won't be able to devote enough brain power to this. I know my 3 orange wires in your last pic, a single and the 2 wires in the one plug, one 90 deg to the other, are disconnected in mine as well, and when I was servicing my buddies 763 last week, I noticed those and found where they go...but just can't remember at this time. I know I had an "ah ha" moment, but I don't recall it being important. I may have to go back to his place and look at his machine again.
If it quiets down here tonight I will try to focus on this and remember where those went.
We're both working on the same machine and I am getting closer to figuring mine out as well.
Cheers for now

kilohertz said:

OKay, I think I will be able to help you, but I am working this weekend and won't be able to devote enough brain power to this. I know my 3 orange wires in your last pic, a single and the 2 wires in the one plug, one 90 deg to the other, are disconnected in mine as well, and when I was servicing my buddies 763 last week, I noticed those and found where they go...but just can't remember at this time. I know I had an "ah ha" moment, but I don't recall it being important. I may have to go back to his place and look at his machine again.
If it quiets down here tonight I will try to focus on this and remember where those went.
We're both working on the same machine and I am getting closer to figuring mine out as well.
Cheers for now

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Sorry, I said 3 orange wires, I meant yellow, still the same ones though. A single and a dual.

kilohertz said:

Sorry, I said 3 orange wires, I meant yellow, still the same ones though. A single and a dual.

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Can't be 100% sure, but I think those two plugs you refer to in the last pic, 1 and 3, go to some little micro switches on the forward/reverse sticks, under the cab. The switches are mounted right on a bracket centered between the control cables going to the hydro-stats. They turn on/off as soon as the sticks come off neutral. I have no idea why they are there, or what they do, as they are disconnected on my machine, and my machine works fine, and probably why I wasn't too concerned when I saw where they went on my buddies machine. You can confirm with an ohm meter...but I think that's where they go. If something else comes to me, I'll let you know.
Let us know what you find.
Cheers

kilohertz said:

Can't be 100% sure, but I think those two plugs you refer to in the last pic, 1 and 3, go to some little micro switches on the forward/reverse sticks, under the cab. The switches are mounted right on a bracket centered between the control cables going to the hydro-stats. They turn on/off as soon as the sticks come off neutral. I have no idea why they are there, or what they do, as they are disconnected on my machine, and my machine works fine, and probably why I wasn't too concerned when I saw where they went on my buddies machine. You can confirm with an ohm meter...but I think that's where they go. If something else comes to me, I'll let you know.
Let us know what you find.
Cheers

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I'll bet those switches are for a backup alarm (an option on Bobcats, not std equipment). If so, there should be one that's actuated by each joystick. --- Bobbie-G

bobbie-g said:

I'll bet those switches are for a backup alarm (an option on Bobcats, not std equipment). If so, there should be one that's actuated by each joystick. --- Bobbie-G

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So how did you make out with the shorted wires? Did you find the problem. Let us know. Cheers