Bobcat Hydraulic Oil Substitute

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Philosaw

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Our Bobcat dealer recently moved away, leaving the nearest dealer 4 hrs drive from me. Before they left I asked the parts guy if I could use a substitute oil for the Bobcat brand hydraulic oil and he replied that I definitely could and that it was simply an ISO 46 tractor hydraulic fluid. So, I went to our Chevron dealer and was told that iso 46 and tractor hydraulic fluid are two different animals entirely and that he personally uses Chevron's THF 1000 in his Bobcat. My question is which is the correct oil to use, an iso 46 hydraulic oil, or a tractor hydraulic fluid (Chevron THF 1000)?
 

SkidRoe

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Tractor trans-hydraulic fluid has an additive package that is formulated to work as a gear lube, as well as a hydraulic fluid. You do not need the gear lube additive package in a hydraulic system. Therefore, I would go with the ISO 46.
That said, lots of guys do use THF in their machines. Heck, my old machine calls for 10w30 in the manual.
Love to hear some more opinions.
My $0.02- SR
 

Bobcatdan

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Tractor trans-hydraulic fluid has an additive package that is formulated to work as a gear lube, as well as a hydraulic fluid. You do not need the gear lube additive package in a hydraulic system. Therefore, I would go with the ISO 46.
That said, lots of guys do use THF in their machines. Heck, my old machine calls for 10w30 in the manual.
Love to hear some more opinions.
My $0.02- SR
I don't think it would really hurt anything in a Bobcat, but "tractor" hydraulic fluid generally has friction modifiers for the wet brakes that standard hydraulic fluid does not. If I have my conversion right, 46 is like a 30 weight. I was always told Bobcat fluid is close to a 20 weight. At work we use 10w30 with no problems.
 
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Philosaw

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I don't think it would really hurt anything in a Bobcat, but "tractor" hydraulic fluid generally has friction modifiers for the wet brakes that standard hydraulic fluid does not. If I have my conversion right, 46 is like a 30 weight. I was always told Bobcat fluid is close to a 20 weight. At work we use 10w30 with no problems.
Thanks for the input. After reading your responses, I decided to see if I could find anything on what the heck an iso designation is. I ran across a pretty good article that leaving aside the engineering mumbo-jumbo, was pretty helpful. There was also an interesting chart that compares the different ratings: (http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/213/iso-viscosity-grades) (http://media.noria.com/sites/archive_images/Backup_200107_viscosity_table_2.gif) What these tell us is that iso is a viscosity grade standard and that it does compare to the standard sae grades although not directly. I went to the Chevron website and looked up their tractor hydraulic fluid (THF 1000) specs and found that it has a viscosity in the high sae 20 range and the iso 46 is in the low sae 20 range. The next thing I need to find out is if the Bobcat fluid is indeed an iso 46. It also seems, from reading the chevron page, that their THF 1000 would work fine, but may be a little overkill. It's main advantage to me is that I already use it in my other machinery. The disadvantage is that I would need to drain out the fluid already in my Bobcat before adding it.
 

7LBSSMALLIE

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Thanks for the input. After reading your responses, I decided to see if I could find anything on what the heck an iso designation is. I ran across a pretty good article that leaving aside the engineering mumbo-jumbo, was pretty helpful. There was also an interesting chart that compares the different ratings: (http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/213/iso-viscosity-grades) (http://media.noria.com/sites/archive_images/Backup_200107_viscosity_table_2.gif) What these tell us is that iso is a viscosity grade standard and that it does compare to the standard sae grades although not directly. I went to the Chevron website and looked up their tractor hydraulic fluid (THF 1000) specs and found that it has a viscosity in the high sae 20 range and the iso 46 is in the low sae 20 range. The next thing I need to find out is if the Bobcat fluid is indeed an iso 46. It also seems, from reading the chevron page, that their THF 1000 would work fine, but may be a little overkill. It's main advantage to me is that I already use it in my other machinery. The disadvantage is that I would need to drain out the fluid already in my Bobcat before adding it.
CURRENT BOBCAT BOTTOM LINE IS their is no suitable replacement hyd fluid that's meets the standards at this time. I think?im not bobcat. but have seen what inferior oil does to units it gets black it burns that's the discoulour. it gets thin. wears out. wearining out componetes that work off 245 psi. yea you a 610 or 743? put what want in it. consider a complet hyd sys rebuild. compare that to OEM price difference in fluids and do the math. and with Clifford in the big brown truck. that says UPS on side the stuffs in youre driveway man.. unless youre leakining you change it every thouasand hrs. don't sweat ten bucks GET PEACE O MIND THAT YOU DID IT ONCE AND DID IT RIGHT. or suffer the conusqunces. A> did I do the right thing? or is my shit gonna fall apart anyway and I should have saved ten bucks
 

Bobcatdan

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CURRENT BOBCAT BOTTOM LINE IS their is no suitable replacement hyd fluid that's meets the standards at this time. I think?im not bobcat. but have seen what inferior oil does to units it gets black it burns that's the discoulour. it gets thin. wears out. wearining out componetes that work off 245 psi. yea you a 610 or 743? put what want in it. consider a complet hyd sys rebuild. compare that to OEM price difference in fluids and do the math. and with Clifford in the big brown truck. that says UPS on side the stuffs in youre driveway man.. unless youre leakining you change it every thouasand hrs. don't sweat ten bucks GET PEACE O MIND THAT YOU DID IT ONCE AND DID IT RIGHT. or suffer the conusqunces. A> did I do the right thing? or is my shit gonna fall apart anyway and I should have saved ten bucks
While it is true, today Bobcat says use only Bobcat hydraulic fluid and nothing else. In servicing somebody's Bobcat unit, I will only use Bobcat fluid. What's funny if you go back to the early S and T manuals, they had a chart of of all the hydraulic fluids that were acceptable. On that chart, Bobcat fluid was the only fluid acceptable the full temperature range. At work we run 10w30 in almost everything. Our S220 has 20,000 hours with 10w30 in the system. Other then a drive motor at 14,000 hours, the unit is still all original. At 14,000 hours, I can hardly fault oil for the motor.
 
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Philosaw

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While it is true, today Bobcat says use only Bobcat hydraulic fluid and nothing else. In servicing somebody's Bobcat unit, I will only use Bobcat fluid. What's funny if you go back to the early S and T manuals, they had a chart of of all the hydraulic fluids that were acceptable. On that chart, Bobcat fluid was the only fluid acceptable the full temperature range. At work we run 10w30 in almost everything. Our S220 has 20,000 hours with 10w30 in the system. Other then a drive motor at 14,000 hours, the unit is still all original. At 14,000 hours, I can hardly fault oil for the motor.
I too would do the same for someone else's machine, but as for mine I have no doubt that the Chevron THF is actually overkill. I also have no doubt that Bobcat is simply having some oil company put an ISO 46 oil in their bucket, assuring that they can squeeze one more buck out of us.
 

mmsllc

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I too would do the same for someone else's machine, but as for mine I have no doubt that the Chevron THF is actually overkill. I also have no doubt that Bobcat is simply having some oil company put an ISO 46 oil in their bucket, assuring that they can squeeze one more buck out of us.
I have used regular # 46 weight hydraulic fluid in all of our bobcats with out any problems to date. I know they call for special fluids, but we have never seen the difference. Our machines see about 800 hours a year in temperatures from 20 to 115. I suppose "...to each their own...!!"
 

7LBSSMALLIE

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I have used regular # 46 weight hydraulic fluid in all of our bobcats with out any problems to date. I know they call for special fluids, but we have never seen the difference. Our machines see about 800 hours a year in temperatures from 20 to 115. I suppose "...to each their own...!!"
heard and understood. alt oils ? maybe . 14.000 hrs and 20.000 hrs is truly respectable. was excited ONCE. to see an hr meter reset to 0. that's oem. fluids. is there better way to extend life of machines. or you that guy. got a barn acuatlly pulls a dipstick. checks sight guage. you know daily operator checks. runs and documents a maint schedule. not seeing it. seriously that amount of hrs is commendable, would like to know a story? a true one so to speak something like . bought this unit used. squared it away. hocked the jet ski. bought a bobcat went into buisnness for myself. don't mean to push but 20.000 hrs is bragging rights. lets get youre story?
 

Bobcatdan

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heard and understood. alt oils ? maybe . 14.000 hrs and 20.000 hrs is truly respectable. was excited ONCE. to see an hr meter reset to 0. that's oem. fluids. is there better way to extend life of machines. or you that guy. got a barn acuatlly pulls a dipstick. checks sight guage. you know daily operator checks. runs and documents a maint schedule. not seeing it. seriously that amount of hrs is commendable, would like to know a story? a true one so to speak something like . bought this unit used. squared it away. hocked the jet ski. bought a bobcat went into buisnness for myself. don't mean to push but 20.000 hrs is bragging rights. lets get youre story?
2007 S220 working in a foundry. Can easily run two to three shifts depending on work load. Engine oil every 100 hrs. Hydraulic filters at 500 hrs and full service at 1000 hrs. Engine is original minus a new turbo around 16,000 hrs. When the drive motor went, did the whole chaincase driveline as everything had slight play. Not bad considering a machine with hard tires that lives on concrete to never have axle bearings or chains done. Hydro is original. Biggest thing is the bobtach. Hauling foundry sand, bushings barely last three months with daily greasing. If they got rid of it while its still running, I'd buy it.
 

7LBSSMALLIE

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2007 S220 working in a foundry. Can easily run two to three shifts depending on work load. Engine oil every 100 hrs. Hydraulic filters at 500 hrs and full service at 1000 hrs. Engine is original minus a new turbo around 16,000 hrs. When the drive motor went, did the whole chaincase driveline as everything had slight play. Not bad considering a machine with hard tires that lives on concrete to never have axle bearings or chains done. Hydro is original. Biggest thing is the bobtach. Hauling foundry sand, bushings barely last three months with daily greasing. If they got rid of it while its still running, I'd buy it.
CUDOS. keep us posted.
 

mmsllc

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CUDOS. keep us posted.
THAT is very impressive!! It is amazing what these machines can do with a good preventative maintenance program. Sand is horrible on anything metal. If it gets inside of joints, it destroys them. If it sits near steal, it holds water & causes rust. It is tough on the bob-tach pivot pins, bushings, locking wedges and the lower tilt cylinder pin & bushing. About all you can do is rebuild / replace them often AND grease them every single day / beginning of each shift.
 

Hotrod1830

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THAT is very impressive!! It is amazing what these machines can do with a good preventative maintenance program. Sand is horrible on anything metal. If it gets inside of joints, it destroys them. If it sits near steal, it holds water & causes rust. It is tough on the bob-tach pivot pins, bushings, locking wedges and the lower tilt cylinder pin & bushing. About all you can do is rebuild / replace them often AND grease them every single day / beginning of each shift.
You have to remember that hydrostatic systems still use the same basic components they have used for 40+ years. All of the Additives do help, but can be found in " basic", " off the shelf"" type of fluids. Whether BOBCAT fluid is better is a debate that probably could never be won or lost. With owners getting high hours of use using "basic fluid" with good maintenance practices makes you wonder if factory fluids are snake oils. Myself, mine is filled with bulk 5w30. For arguments sake, I have been thinking about switching to a dedicated hydraulic fluid on the 310 that specifies use with "wet brakes" because it is a clutch drive machine.
 

reaperman

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You have to remember that hydrostatic systems still use the same basic components they have used for 40+ years. All of the Additives do help, but can be found in " basic", " off the shelf"" type of fluids. Whether BOBCAT fluid is better is a debate that probably could never be won or lost. With owners getting high hours of use using "basic fluid" with good maintenance practices makes you wonder if factory fluids are snake oils. Myself, mine is filled with bulk 5w30. For arguments sake, I have been thinking about switching to a dedicated hydraulic fluid on the 310 that specifies use with "wet brakes" because it is a clutch drive machine.
A few weeks ago I picked up a two and a half gallon jug of Bobcat brand hydro fluid for our new machine at work. A hydro fitting came loose and lost enough fluid where we had to add. Anyway, I was kind of surprised the cost of the oil was cheaper than I expected. Out the door, tax included was $42 (or $21 per 5 qts). Normal 10w-30 motor oil is generally between $15-20+ for a 5 qt jug depending on brand. I guess with the price being that comparable its kind of a no brainer as to which oil to use. Especially if the oil is going to be used in the machine for another 1000 hours.
 
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Philosaw

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A few weeks ago I picked up a two and a half gallon jug of Bobcat brand hydro fluid for our new machine at work. A hydro fitting came loose and lost enough fluid where we had to add. Anyway, I was kind of surprised the cost of the oil was cheaper than I expected. Out the door, tax included was $42 (or $21 per 5 qts). Normal 10w-30 motor oil is generally between $15-20+ for a 5 qt jug depending on brand. I guess with the price being that comparable its kind of a no brainer as to which oil to use. Especially if the oil is going to be used in the machine for another 1000 hours.
I live in Northern California and our dealer left our area making it too far to drive for a bucket of oil. Even when I picked up a 5 gal. Bucket from the dealer it was still significantly cheaper to buy From our Chevron jobber. Now with shipping its out of the question. I do like hearing everyone's opinions and value all of the knowledge available here. Thanks you all.
 

SkidRoe

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I live in Northern California and our dealer left our area making it too far to drive for a bucket of oil. Even when I picked up a 5 gal. Bucket from the dealer it was still significantly cheaper to buy From our Chevron jobber. Now with shipping its out of the question. I do like hearing everyone's opinions and value all of the knowledge available here. Thanks you all.
Hey Philosaw - I read back through the posts, and I didn't see what model your machine is. Is it the T190 you have posted about in the past?
Cheers - SR
 
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Philosaw

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Hey Philosaw - I read back through the posts, and I didn't see what model your machine is. Is it the T190 you have posted about in the past?
Cheers - SR
Yeah, it's my T190 which I bought from a friend in 07 with 1800 hrs. It has high flow and foot controls. Been a good machine to work with, but has had a raft of problems from the first week I bought it to this day with only 2600 hrs. New computer, new hydraulic pump, new spool seals, and immediately after the spools seal, radiator repair. This along with all the usual upkeep: tracks, rollers, sprockets, etc., etc. I have several pieces of iron and a complete shop where we do regular servicing of all machines and log everything, so it's not like it's been abused, probably the opposite. That's why on another thread I asked if anyone had any experience with the Kubota SVL's. Made me jealous to read about BCDan's with thousands of trouble free hours!
 

7LBSSMALLIE

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Yeah, it's my T190 which I bought from a friend in 07 with 1800 hrs. It has high flow and foot controls. Been a good machine to work with, but has had a raft of problems from the first week I bought it to this day with only 2600 hrs. New computer, new hydraulic pump, new spool seals, and immediately after the spools seal, radiator repair. This along with all the usual upkeep: tracks, rollers, sprockets, etc., etc. I have several pieces of iron and a complete shop where we do regular servicing of all machines and log everything, so it's not like it's been abused, probably the opposite. That's why on another thread I asked if anyone had any experience with the Kubota SVL's. Made me jealous to read about BCDan's with thousands of trouble free hours!
don't forget the other side of the coin. I month outta warrenty. conponmet fails . do you maybe think that if dealer has a record of youre maintaince purchases. as in OEM FILTERS AND OILS. youre case may stated just a little stronger. now that's a thread id like to read good dealership. good factory reps. solving issues. nobodys happy when their lively hood is broken. mechanics don't see the the happy side. we see the I'm pissed off side. .
 

7LBSSMALLIE

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don't forget the other side of the coin. I month outta warrenty. conponmet fails . do you maybe think that if dealer has a record of youre maintaince purchases. as in OEM FILTERS AND OILS. youre case may stated just a little stronger. now that's a thread id like to read good dealership. good factory reps. solving issues. nobodys happy when their lively hood is broken. mechanics don't see the the happy side. we see the I'm pissed off side. .
I forgot .we like donuts
 
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