Almost impossible to start deutz in bobcat

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Mikefromcny

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Still having a hard time with the 883..An update for you guys...Timing belt done, adjusted valves( they were a little loose), replaced injector return lines. Checked shut off solenoid, appears to be working. Did a compression test yesterday, 450, 465, 495, 500 psi on cylinders. Glow plugs are working even though it shouldn't need them. I guess my next check is injectors. I'm sure glad I bought my beater 773, after getting 2' of snow in 24 hours I would have been in a lot of trouble. Any other ideas?
 

antfarmer2

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I would shoot some wd40 in it if it fires right up would look for a fuel line sucking air or rebleed the lines if not would double check the timming belt
 

Tazza

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If the wd40 fires it could be injectors too
My initial thought was compression, but that is good compression you have there.
Give the WD40 a go, see if it pops or not.
Crack a line at the injector and see if you get fuel when it cranks. If not, it may be the shut off solenoid. You can remove the solenoid and start it i believe, i just can't remember if you need to push or pull the plunger to turn the fuel on.
Start with seeing if you get fuel out, if you do, it could be plugged injectors.
 

lesgawlik

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My initial thought was compression, but that is good compression you have there.
Give the WD40 a go, see if it pops or not.
Crack a line at the injector and see if you get fuel when it cranks. If not, it may be the shut off solenoid. You can remove the solenoid and start it i believe, i just can't remember if you need to push or pull the plunger to turn the fuel on.
Start with seeing if you get fuel out, if you do, it could be plugged injectors.
I know the original post made mention of the timing belt. Are you sure the timing belt was put on correctly? I had a very difficult to start BF4M1011F Deutz and it turned out to be the timing belt was not on correctly.
 

Tazza

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I know the original post made mention of the timing belt. Are you sure the timing belt was put on correctly? I had a very difficult to start BF4M1011F Deutz and it turned out to be the timing belt was not on correctly.
That is an excellent point.
If the timing is out one tooth, it could cause this issue. The valve timing seems to be right to give the compression readings you have provided.
 
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Mikefromcny

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That is an excellent point.
If the timing is out one tooth, it could cause this issue. The valve timing seems to be right to give the compression readings you have provided.
Thanks for the replies, guys. Belt in on correctly, used the timing pins and loosened the cam pulley. It will run on aerosols, I have been using silicone spray lubricant. It also started this hard before I did the timing belt. I'm hoping to pull injectors tonight.
 

Redline

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Thanks for the replies, guys. Belt in on correctly, used the timing pins and loosened the cam pulley. It will run on aerosols, I have been using silicone spray lubricant. It also started this hard before I did the timing belt. I'm hoping to pull injectors tonight.
Something of a dumb question, but what do you have in it for fuel and how old is it? I have had a truck in the shop, and have heard of some others having issues recently with the ultra low sulfur diesel, seems its real prone to algae if it's left sitting. Obviously, this is with road fuel. Working at a car dealership, I don't do much with offroad diesel, except my Dad's tractor. Just throwing it out there!
 

sstec

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Thanks for the replies, guys. Belt in on correctly, used the timing pins and loosened the cam pulley. It will run on aerosols, I have been using silicone spray lubricant. It also started this hard before I did the timing belt. I'm hoping to pull injectors tonight.
Mike, It is possible to be off by one tooth on the timing belt even using the factory timing pins, ask me how I know. After I got the Deutz manual and tensioner for changing the timing did I get it right. The Deutz instructions are 7 or 8 pages compared to Bobcat's page and a half. Pull the valve cover and check your push rods. Did you check your valve clearance after you changed the timing belt? sstec
 
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Mikefromcny

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Mike, It is possible to be off by one tooth on the timing belt even using the factory timing pins, ask me how I know. After I got the Deutz manual and tensioner for changing the timing did I get it right. The Deutz instructions are 7 or 8 pages compared to Bobcat's page and a half. Pull the valve cover and check your push rods. Did you check your valve clearance after you changed the timing belt? sstec
Another update: I yanked the injectors out, spun the lines 180* and hooked the injectors up with the return lines in the correct order. Bled the fuel system and had my girlfriend crank the bobcat over. #2 cylinder is the only one actually where the pump/injector is actually working. #1 did nothing, no fuel or even a dribble. #3 did nothing as well. #4 had a few droplets of fuel coming off the tip. Keep in mind the fuel system was bled, and engine had no compression while cranking over, and was cranked over until the battery was dead. I pulled the nozzles on the injectors, everything was clean, holes in tips were clean as well. I'm thinking its the individual injection pumps that are the problem. They may be sticking, not returning all the way down and only getting a partial stroke in. Thats my theory anyways. The fuel line banjo bolts at the individual pumps have surface rust on them, where they go into the tubing. Even before the belt was done, the engine sounded like it was firing on 1 cylinder until it finally caught. Valve lash was set after the belt and several rotations.
 

antfarmer2

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Another update: I yanked the injectors out, spun the lines 180* and hooked the injectors up with the return lines in the correct order. Bled the fuel system and had my girlfriend crank the bobcat over. #2 cylinder is the only one actually where the pump/injector is actually working. #1 did nothing, no fuel or even a dribble. #3 did nothing as well. #4 had a few droplets of fuel coming off the tip. Keep in mind the fuel system was bled, and engine had no compression while cranking over, and was cranked over until the battery was dead. I pulled the nozzles on the injectors, everything was clean, holes in tips were clean as well. I'm thinking its the individual injection pumps that are the problem. They may be sticking, not returning all the way down and only getting a partial stroke in. Thats my theory anyways. The fuel line banjo bolts at the individual pumps have surface rust on them, where they go into the tubing. Even before the belt was done, the engine sounded like it was firing on 1 cylinder until it finally caught. Valve lash was set after the belt and several rotations.
Are you sure the fuel is going through the soliniod and did you change the filter (s)
 

7LBSSMALLIE

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Check all the lines for sucking air the last thing you want is the pump
without wastining time reading complete thread . sorry guys will revisit description of issue leads me to. A. first remove and inspect fuel transfer pump filter, Phillips head screw cant miss fuel line lead to it. B. when eng is startining to stumble , have someone squeeze the the squeezy ball if it picks back up replace fuel transfer pump.
 
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Mikefromcny

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without wastining time reading complete thread . sorry guys will revisit description of issue leads me to. A. first remove and inspect fuel transfer pump filter, Phillips head screw cant miss fuel line lead to it. B. when eng is startining to stumble , have someone squeeze the the squeezy ball if it picks back up replace fuel transfer pump.
Made some progress. Pulled all the delivery valves in the tops of the injector pumps. Inspected everything, everything looks okay with the exception of lots of surface rust. Cleaned up rust with a fine scotch brite bad. Rebled system, getting fuel to all 4 injectors now. Moved injectors around, #2 cylinder is the strongest still...meaning it atomizes the fuel the strongest and jets are the longest. Transfer pump was replaced before I got it. Screen is clean. I also installed a clear inline fuel filter before the transfer pump to catch anything. I will also replace all of the fuel lines when I get a chance, to make sure one isn't sucking a little air somewhere.
 
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Mikefromcny

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Made some progress. Pulled all the delivery valves in the tops of the injector pumps. Inspected everything, everything looks okay with the exception of lots of surface rust. Cleaned up rust with a fine scotch brite bad. Rebled system, getting fuel to all 4 injectors now. Moved injectors around, #2 cylinder is the strongest still...meaning it atomizes the fuel the strongest and jets are the longest. Transfer pump was replaced before I got it. Screen is clean. I also installed a clear inline fuel filter before the transfer pump to catch anything. I will also replace all of the fuel lines when I get a chance, to make sure one isn't sucking a little air somewhere.
Fuel filter is new and I am getting fuel to the injector pumps. Solenoid is working. Injector + pump on cylinder #2 is working perfectly, none of the others are working as well as #2, but all are working. #2 cylinder meaning 2nd one loses to the flywheel. (deutz numbers their cylinder backwards compared to most engines).
 

antfarmer2

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Fuel filter is new and I am getting fuel to the injector pumps. Solenoid is working. Injector + pump on cylinder #2 is working perfectly, none of the others are working as well as #2, but all are working. #2 cylinder meaning 2nd one loses to the flywheel. (deutz numbers their cylinder backwards compared to most engines).
Great sounds like you almost got it I would fill up the pump with hoppies gun oil number 9 let it sit for a bit then run it out repeat if needed you do NOT want to take the pump apart
 

siduramaxde

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Great sounds like you almost got it I would fill up the pump with hoppies gun oil number 9 let it sit for a bit then run it out repeat if needed you do NOT want to take the pump apart
My T200 with the deutz used to be hard to start and it was the fuel line. It was losing prime after it sat for a bit.
 

Tazza

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My T200 with the deutz used to be hard to start and it was the fuel line. It was losing prime after it sat for a bit.
This is the model engine with indivifual injector pumps that mount to the engine block? If so, can you remove the ones that are not working, see if the base is still free to move. Possibly pushing and pulling it to free things up.
I have had a kubota inline pump that had one line that was stuck in place due to sticking with old oil.
You said the other injectors were clean, can you try hooking them up to the working pump? just to make sure they are working and not plugged internally. I had a machine that had crap in the injectors that were clean, but no fuel could get to the tip.
 
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Mikefromcny

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This is the model engine with indivifual injector pumps that mount to the engine block? If so, can you remove the ones that are not working, see if the base is still free to move. Possibly pushing and pulling it to free things up.
I have had a kubota inline pump that had one line that was stuck in place due to sticking with old oil.
You said the other injectors were clean, can you try hooking them up to the working pump? just to make sure they are working and not plugged internally. I had a machine that had crap in the injectors that were clean, but no fuel could get to the tip.
Lesgawik and sstec, How did you determine the timing was off? I used timing pins when the belt was done. Big bolt on crank was NOT touched. Timing pins were screwed in all the way. Over the last few days I've done the pickup tube, drained the tank, refilled with fresh diesel and replaced ALL of the fuel lines. May recheck the timing again just incase. Tazza, I removed the injectors and hung them from the injector lines. They are all spraying. This was going to be my "keeper" to have around the house for awhile, but I just picked up a kubota powered S250. This is my third deutz, the previous 2 were great.
 
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