Bobcat T650 - Final Drive Motors and Hydrostatic Pump failure at 1200 Hrs

Not a happy camper right now. Bought a 2011 Bobcat T650 from a dealer with 400 hours last year. 1 year and 1 month later at 1,200 hours the right drive motor goes out which took out the other drive motor and took out the hydrostatic pump. Total cost in parts and labor close to $20,000. Tried to talk to Bobcat Dealership. They brought in Bobcat Rep "Eric Groube" only to find out he is not helping us out. The only thing he had to say is "I can get you into a new Bobcat for a trade". We mentioned that the Pump is on back order and no one can tell us when it will be in. Obviously they either have manufacturing issues with the specs, or so many pumps are going out that they can't keep up. When we mentioned that to the Rep, he didn't say anything. WOW! The reason we purchased this T650 last year is because our older 2004 Bobcat T200 went out and it did exactly the same thing. At least that one had 5300 hours on it. Took out all the drive gears and pumps as well. So now we have 2 Bobcats sitting duck with cost of $40,000 on parts and labor to fix them both and Bobcat turns their back on us. They don't care about the little guy. We have been a loyal customer for over 20 years with Bobcat, but that of course is changing now. What a joke. As soon as both of them are repaired we will sell them and buy a Kubota SLV75. We have been renting one for the last 2 months while repairs are being made and what a difference! The door can be opened up without the fear of being trapped in the cab. The hydraulics are tucked away so your grapple bucket doesn't hit the fittings. Not to mention this Kubota moves! I can get grading done twice as fast as with the Bobcat. To all Bobcat owners, hope you have better luck with your machine! Curious to find out if anybody else had issues with the Final Drive Motors going out??? I have a feeling this rep knows exactly what is going on but is unwilling to help out any....

That is really bad luck.
Drive motors need their hub oil changing quite often, was this done? When the motors go out, they take the pump too as you have noticed.
It's a bit poor that they can't get you a pump faster, LPS should have been able to get it up and running quickly.
That is a bit of a blow from the dealer saying i can get you into a new machine with a trade... They just want you out the door. I can understand that it won't be under warranty any more, so they don't have to help you out, but good customer relations go a long way.

Tazza said:

That is really bad luck.
Drive motors need their hub oil changing quite often, was this done? When the motors go out, they take the pump too as you have noticed.
It's a bit poor that they can't get you a pump faster, LPS should have been able to get it up and running quickly.
That is a bit of a blow from the dealer saying i can get you into a new machine with a trade... They just want you out the door. I can understand that it won't be under warranty any more, so they don't have to help you out, but good customer relations go a long way.

Click to expand...

I don't what throw salt on your wounds, but you had to have drove it a long time with the motor failing to wreak the pump. Do drive motors on track machines fail, yes they do, but not really that often. I maybe do three a year compared to 200 or so track machines I see on a regular basis. Generally what happens, the hub seal leaks out the hub end oil. The bearings run dry and go to hell. This throws off the preload on the rotating assembly thus wrecking the motor. Nomarlly, new motor, new cooler, a good system flushing and power Bob tach vavls if it has. Plus or minus $7000. Never had a pump wrecked. Bobcat has gotten real stingy on out of warranty claims and the rep you talked to just a middle man. I don't know exactly how the system works, but he is basically between a rock and a hard place. You being the rock, his higher ups being the hard place.

Bobcatdan said:

I don't what throw salt on your wounds, but you had to have drove it a long time with the motor failing to wreak the pump. Do drive motors on track machines fail, yes they do, but not really that often. I maybe do three a year compared to 200 or so track machines I see on a regular basis. Generally what happens, the hub seal leaks out the hub end oil. The bearings run dry and go to hell. This throws off the preload on the rotating assembly thus wrecking the motor. Nomarlly, new motor, new cooler, a good system flushing and power Bob tach vavls if it has. Plus or minus $7000. Never had a pump wrecked. Bobcat has gotten real stingy on out of warranty claims and the rep you talked to just a middle man. I don't know exactly how the system works, but he is basically between a rock and a hard place. You being the rock, his higher ups being the hard place.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the comments. Actually, the machine was shut down right away after we saw loss of power. So no, the machine never ran long after it was determined something isn't right. After talking to several dealers, it's the chicken or the egg theory. We now believe the pump failed first and took out both drive motors. The reason this makes sense is because we stopped the machine after loss of power was observed. Mechanic rebuilt the right drive motor, flushed out system twice. Got it back, after driving if for 15 min we determined it's still doing the same thing. Back to the mechanic. Rebuilt the left drive motor, flushed out system twice. Drove it for a less than 1/2 hour, still didn't seem right. Rebuilt all pumps. Rep called me 24 hours after meeting with us. Before it was "can't help you. Can only get you into a new machine". Now talking to the rep, he thinks the pump went out as there was no heat stress observed on the bearing from the drive motors. We kept all the bad parts. Next step is a read out from the machine to determine any codes in the system that we failed to investigate. Of course, there were none. I am keeping fingers crossed that Bobcat will help us out and reimburse for parts and labor.

sunshine237 said:

Thanks for the comments. Actually, the machine was shut down right away after we saw loss of power. So no, the machine never ran long after it was determined something isn't right. After talking to several dealers, it's the chicken or the egg theory. We now believe the pump failed first and took out both drive motors. The reason this makes sense is because we stopped the machine after loss of power was observed. Mechanic rebuilt the right drive motor, flushed out system twice. Got it back, after driving if for 15 min we determined it's still doing the same thing. Back to the mechanic. Rebuilt the left drive motor, flushed out system twice. Drove it for a less than 1/2 hour, still didn't seem right. Rebuilt all pumps. Rep called me 24 hours after meeting with us. Before it was "can't help you. Can only get you into a new machine". Now talking to the rep, he thinks the pump went out as there was no heat stress observed on the bearing from the drive motors. We kept all the bad parts. Next step is a read out from the machine to determine any codes in the system that we failed to investigate. Of course, there were none. I am keeping fingers crossed that Bobcat will help us out and reimburse for parts and labor.

Click to expand...

Oh, the "mechanic" i assume was the dealer?
If so, you may have a leg to stand on. You sent it in for them to fix, and if they missed the cause, you could argue they didn't do their job with finding and repairing the issue, but i bet they have loopholes.
Yes, it happens, but they should try and help you out. I would assume they have warranty on repairs. Say they repair a drive motor then it fails after they flush/refit they should warrant it.

Tazza said:

Oh, the "mechanic" i assume was the dealer?
If so, you may have a leg to stand on. You sent it in for them to fix, and if they missed the cause, you could argue they didn't do their job with finding and repairing the issue, but i bet they have loopholes.
Yes, it happens, but they should try and help you out. I would assume they have warranty on repairs. Say they repair a drive motor then it fails after they flush/refit they should warrant it.

Click to expand...

Yes, I agree. Bobcat should help us out. For this to happen to a machine with 1200 hours is unacceptable to us. I understand that the warranty ran out, but if you spend $48,000 on a machine in June 2013 and it breaks down a year later with close to $20,000 in repairs, why buy a bobcat? If they can't make these machines last longer then there is something wrong with the design or specs on the parts and they need to stand behind it.

sunshine237 said:

Yes, I agree. Bobcat should help us out. For this to happen to a machine with 1200 hours is unacceptable to us. I understand that the warranty ran out, but if you spend $48,000 on a machine in June 2013 and it breaks down a year later with close to $20,000 in repairs, why buy a bobcat? If they can't make these machines last longer then there is something wrong with the design or specs on the parts and they need to stand behind it.

Click to expand...

Bobcatdan, I'd like to follow up on your earlier post. Are you talking about the oil that is accessed with the little set screw on the outside of the drive motor leaking out? It is that bearing that fails? The reason is that I have a drive motor where that oil was a little irridescent. The motor was taken apart and the outer bearing replaced. That is not connected to the pump and the drive mechanism, correct?

lesgawlik said:

Bobcatdan, I'd like to follow up on your earlier post. Are you talking about the oil that is accessed with the little set screw on the outside of the drive motor leaking out? It is that bearing that fails? The reason is that I have a drive motor where that oil was a little irridescent. The motor was taken apart and the outer bearing replaced. That is not connected to the pump and the drive mechanism, correct?

Click to expand...

The end hub housing is basically a stub shaft with bearings. The hub oil is there to lube the bearings. In that regards, that is sealed off from the rest of the system. That stub shaft sets the end load on the rotating group of the drive motor. If the hub bearings fail and it allows the stub shaft to wobble, the rotating group is allowed to also. This where the real damage occurs is the rotating group beating the shit out of itself. If the bearing problem is caught early enough, those can be serviced with the rest of the motor being saved.

Bobcatdan said:

The end hub housing is basically a stub shaft with bearings. The hub oil is there to lube the bearings. In that regards, that is sealed off from the rest of the system. That stub shaft sets the end load on the rotating group of the drive motor. If the hub bearings fail and it allows the stub shaft to wobble, the rotating group is allowed to also. This where the real damage occurs is the rotating group beating the shit out of itself. If the bearing problem is caught early enough, those can be serviced with the rest of the motor being saved.

Click to expand...

I don't think it is a flaw, as others have had no issue with their tracked machines, but you always have the possibility of really bad luck which it seems you have had. I too would be pissed at spending that much cash and a little over a year and it fails, costing you almost half a new machine! You bought it it make YOU money, not the dealer. With the way the failures have happened, it seems the dealer missed something.
I'd be pushing the fact that you paid for the motors and pump to be rebuilt and they failed, something wasn't done right.

Tazza said:

I don't think it is a flaw, as others have had no issue with their tracked machines, but you always have the possibility of really bad luck which it seems you have had. I too would be pissed at spending that much cash and a little over a year and it fails, costing you almost half a new machine! You bought it it make YOU money, not the dealer. With the way the failures have happened, it seems the dealer missed something.
I'd be pushing the fact that you paid for the motors and pump to be rebuilt and they failed, something wasn't done right.

Click to expand...

Guess we must just have really bad luck. Pissed is an understatement and doesn't even come close to how we feel about the hole ordeal and how we have been treated by Bobcat. Got a call back from the Bobcat rep yesterday and they are not willing to do anything for us. So once we get this machine back, it's being sold. We are done with using or owning Bobcat. It's Kubota from here on out! Anybody interested in a completely rebuilt 2011 Bobcat T650? lol. We are located in Minnesota.

sunshine237 said:

Guess we must just have really bad luck. Pissed is an understatement and doesn't even come close to how we feel about the hole ordeal and how we have been treated by Bobcat. Got a call back from the Bobcat rep yesterday and they are not willing to do anything for us. So once we get this machine back, it's being sold. We are done with using or owning Bobcat. It's Kubota from here on out! Anybody interested in a completely rebuilt 2011 Bobcat T650? lol. We are located in Minnesota.

Click to expand...

Minnesota is the land of cheap track machines. I don't how many guys I know here in Wisconsin have made the trip for unheard of good deals up there.

sunshine237 said:

Guess we must just have really bad luck. Pissed is an understatement and doesn't even come close to how we feel about the hole ordeal and how we have been treated by Bobcat. Got a call back from the Bobcat rep yesterday and they are not willing to do anything for us. So once we get this machine back, it's being sold. We are done with using or owning Bobcat. It's Kubota from here on out! Anybody interested in a completely rebuilt 2011 Bobcat T650? lol. We are located in Minnesota.

Click to expand...

Its nice to see another boy on the forum, but not under these conditions. I share your pain, you have a right to pissed, I would be too. I have heard some great things about the Kubota machines. I only used one for a little while so I cant really comment. What I didnt like was the placement of the radiator behind the back door. I get into too much brush and always worry a stick will find its way thru the radiator.

reaperman said:

Its nice to see another boy on the forum, but not under these conditions. I share your pain, you have a right to pissed, I would be too. I have heard some great things about the Kubota machines. I only used one for a little while so I cant really comment. What I didnt like was the placement of the radiator behind the back door. I get into too much brush and always worry a stick will find its way thru the radiator.

Click to expand...

Meant to say "minnesota" boy

reaperman said:

Meant to say "minnesota" boy

Click to expand...

I can understand anyone being pissed at these machines. I have had no end of issues with the old bobcat I own and my friends brand new case requires a contortionist and a theoretical physicist to fix.

reaperman said:

Its nice to see another boy on the forum, but not under these conditions. I share your pain, you have a right to pissed, I would be too. I have heard some great things about the Kubota machines. I only used one for a little while so I cant really comment. What I didnt like was the placement of the radiator behind the back door. I get into too much brush and always worry a stick will find its way thru the radiator.

Click to expand...

Yes, it is a different location than on the Bobcat. But I actually like that. With the Bobcat I get the dirt blown right into the cab when the windows are open. With the Kubota, all that air is blown straight back and doesn't come back and hits you in the face. We had a Case that was an 83, sold it last year and it had the radiator in the same spot. Never had any issues with it being there or any sticks that came through.

sunshine237 said:

Yes, it is a different location than on the Bobcat. But I actually like that. With the Bobcat I get the dirt blown right into the cab when the windows are open. With the Kubota, all that air is blown straight back and doesn't come back and hits you in the face. We had a Case that was an 83, sold it last year and it had the radiator in the same spot. Never had any issues with it being there or any sticks that came through.

Click to expand...

I would be PISSED off to..........one trick I have used that has worked before is to send a certified letter with return receipt to the corp office this is a first step of a law suit and the higher ups will look into it and might figure out it may be better to help you.....,no lawyer needed

antfarmer2 said:

I would be PISSED off to..........one trick I have used that has worked before is to send a certified letter with return receipt to the corp office this is a first step of a law suit and the higher ups will look into it and might figure out it may be better to help you.....,no lawyer needed

Click to expand...

Thanks antfarmer2 for the inside tip.

sunshine237 said:

Thanks antfarmer2 for the inside tip.

Click to expand...

I'd include receipts for all work done outlining what was done and how many hours till failure.

Tazza said:

I'd include receipts for all work done outlining what was done and how many hours till failure.

Click to expand...

Oh I will. This isn't over yet...