Morphodite 520

Howdy all. Newb to the forum from Int'l. Falls MN-land of tall snowbanks. I've got a real interesting machine that I need to troubleshoot. The 520 has an engine from a Subaru car! Lot's of power, little info to go with it. Last winter, in the middle of a blizzard, in the middle of the night, in the middle of the highway, did I mention it was 15 below at the time?...well hmph. Lost ALL hydraulics to both drive and arm/bucket. No leaks. I could hear that sickeningly familiar zzzzzz sound of stripped gears? Engine still ran fine. I'm finally ready to start digging into it. I'm suspicious of the motor to pump coupling because I'm sure it is just some jury-rigged welded together something or other. First question to start with. Engine removal: Is the hydraulic pump coupling likely to be just a friction fit (splined shaft)? I would hate to cause damage by pulling the engine backwards against a bolted (solid mount) coupling. Any advice is much appreciated. This could turn into a bit of a project one way or another. Good thing I have an old plow truck as back-up

Never heard of a 520. If it is anything like a 720, should be a splined connection, so the motor should slide free of the connection, which sounds like it is stripped. Good luck and post some pictures. - SR

SkidRoe said:

Never heard of a 520. If it is anything like a 720, should be a splined connection, so the motor should slide free of the connection, which sounds like it is stripped. Good luck and post some pictures. - SR

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Thanks for the reply SkidRoe. The Bobcat 520 is not quite as common, but there seem to be a few around. 1975ish vintage? Original engines (I believe) were Kohler 19HP and maybe an Onan 22HP. The crazy farmer that did this repower upped it to 68HP! I managed to get my phone in there for a shot of the coupling. Never seen anything like it. Unfortunately I'm having trouble posting it from Photobucket. I'm pretty used to a couple of other forums (performance pontoons are my passion), but I can't seem to get it to work here. Argghhh. I hate being a rookie again. I can't even seem to get my paragraphs to separate even though I set my profile to HTML editing. Here's the direct link at least http://s712.photobucket.com/user/tunedude10/media/20140907_062123.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0
Prolly won't get too much further for a few days because of work.

Tuned said:

Thanks for the reply SkidRoe. The Bobcat 520 is not quite as common, but there seem to be a few around. 1975ish vintage? Original engines (I believe) were Kohler 19HP and maybe an Onan 22HP. The crazy farmer that did this repower upped it to 68HP! I managed to get my phone in there for a shot of the coupling. Never seen anything like it. Unfortunately I'm having trouble posting it from Photobucket. I'm pretty used to a couple of other forums (performance pontoons are my passion), but I can't seem to get it to work here. Argghhh. I hate being a rookie again. I can't even seem to get my paragraphs to separate even though I set my profile to HTML editing. Here's the direct link at least http://s712.photobucket.com/user/tunedude10/media/20140907_062123.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0
Prolly won't get too much further for a few days because of work.

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Standard chain coupling. To remove you'll need to find the clip that holds the connector pin or master link in place.
http://www.ustsubaki.com/pdf/l10794_coupling.pdf
Coupling looks intact so if the engine is turning and there's oil in the system you should be getting something to move unless all that added horsepower has sheared off the input shaft on the pumps.
To post pictures just copy and paste the image(not the link) from somewhere on the internet into your post.

OldMachinist said:

Standard chain coupling. To remove you'll need to find the clip that holds the connector pin or master link in place.
http://www.ustsubaki.com/pdf/l10794_coupling.pdf
Coupling looks intact so if the engine is turning and there's oil in the system you should be getting something to move unless all that added horsepower has sheared off the input shaft on the pumps.
To post pictures just copy and paste the image(not the link) from somewhere on the internet into your post.

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Awesome link on couplings, OM. It don't look like any boat linkage I've ever seen I'll try to see if I can start up and get an eyeball or a camera on it without getting burned or squished to troubleshoot further. Hopefully I can see what is and isn't turning. Are you saying that the coupling WON'T slide off of the hydraulic pump easily? It might be tough to get to (and remove) that master link. As far as posting, I read some of the woes others have had. Trying to follow all advice with little luck. I use IE, set to HTML. Still no HTML editor showing when replying here. Pics-trying to copy paste directly from Photobucket image. Nothing there either. Frustrating. Here is what I get when I copy/paste from photobucket. http://i712.photobucket.com/albums/ww128/tunedude10/20140907_062123.jpg

Tuned said:

Awesome link on couplings, OM. It don't look like any boat linkage I've ever seen I'll try to see if I can start up and get an eyeball or a camera on it without getting burned or squished to troubleshoot further. Hopefully I can see what is and isn't turning. Are you saying that the coupling WON'T slide off of the hydraulic pump easily? It might be tough to get to (and remove) that master link. As far as posting, I read some of the woes others have had. Trying to follow all advice with little luck. I use IE, set to HTML. Still no HTML editor showing when replying here. Pics-trying to copy paste directly from Photobucket image. Nothing there either. Frustrating. Here is what I get when I copy/paste from photobucket. http://i712.photobucket.com/albums/ww128/tunedude10/20140907_062123.jpg

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If I open your picture on photobucket and right click in the image and click copy. Then right click in a post I get this.

OldMachinist said:

If I open your picture on photobucket and right click in the image and click copy. Then right click in a post I get this.

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Now that I looked at your coupling closer I see at least one set screw on the motor end. You maybe able to loosen the screw or screws and then slide the motor shaft out of the coupling.
Or if they used some of the original coupling the whole coupling might just slide off the splined adapter on the pump shaft. It just depends on how much of the original parts were used.

OldMachinist said:

Now that I looked at your coupling closer I see at least one set screw on the motor end. You maybe able to loosen the screw or screws and then slide the motor shaft out of the coupling.
Or if they used some of the original coupling the whole coupling might just slide off the splined adapter on the pump shaft. It just depends on how much of the original parts were used.

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I suspect that the photo issue isn't due to my technique in photobucket. Rather something is not letting me get into HTML posting. Not sure where to go from there. ya I saw the set screw hole. I may be able to get it free or pop the master link all by feel. I can get both hands in there. Guess I'd rather KNOW for sure that it will seperate when I do try to slide the motor out. Looking closely at that coupler, the gear teeth look suspiciously worn and shiny. perhaps I just ate the tips off of them.

Tuned said:

I suspect that the photo issue isn't due to my technique in photobucket. Rather something is not letting me get into HTML posting. Not sure where to go from there. ya I saw the set screw hole. I may be able to get it free or pop the master link all by feel. I can get both hands in there. Guess I'd rather KNOW for sure that it will seperate when I do try to slide the motor out. Looking closely at that coupler, the gear teeth look suspiciously worn and shiny. perhaps I just ate the tips off of them.

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I have to use compatibility view for this website with Internet Explorer 11.
Just add skidsteerforum.com there and see if its better.

OldMachinist said:

I have to use compatibility view for this website with Internet Explorer 11.
Just add skidsteerforum.com there and see if its better.

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Just a quick test. Here's the boat I just finished building from the tubes up. Not too many toons with a 454 I/O in 'em.

Yep. Compatibility View was certainly the ticket. I'd heard of it but never had to use it before. Thanks OM. I'm no longer a frustrated Newb. OK back to wrenchin'

Tuned said:

Just a quick test. Here's the boat I just finished building from the tubes up. Not too many toons with a 454 I/O in 'em.

Yep. Compatibility View was certainly the ticket. I'd heard of it but never had to use it before. Thanks OM. I'm no longer a frustrated Newb. OK back to wrenchin'

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OK so I got a flexi-scope aimed at the coupler and my buddy started it up. To my surprise, all I could see of the coupler was spinning, although it is possible that it is spinning somehow on the hydrostatic pump shaft (broken key etc...?)
How about the 'relief valve'? I'm thinking I need to check pump output. Has anyone here made a poor-mans hydraulic pressure/flow tester? Looks like the cheapest real one is over a grand and I live many miles from anywhere.
Any other guesses?

Tuned said:

OK so I got a flexi-scope aimed at the coupler and my buddy started it up. To my surprise, all I could see of the coupler was spinning, although it is possible that it is spinning somehow on the hydrostatic pump shaft (broken key etc...?)
How about the 'relief valve'? I'm thinking I need to check pump output. Has anyone here made a poor-mans hydraulic pressure/flow tester? Looks like the cheapest real one is over a grand and I live many miles from anywhere.
Any other guesses?

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You really need to pull the engine and check what is slipping. You said there was a noise, that sounds like splines being chewed up.

Tazza said:

You really need to pull the engine and check what is slipping. You said there was a noise, that sounds like splines being chewed up.

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Thanks Tazza. I'm workin in that direction (slowly). I was just doing due diligence as there will be no more spinning of anything once I unhook engine.
Next up, hoping to remove master link on the chain coupling (by feel). If anything is stripped in there, it is the coupling to Hydrostatic Pump adapter. Popping those chains off will also positively let me pull engine without fear of further damage.

Tuned said:

Thanks Tazza. I'm workin in that direction (slowly). I was just doing due diligence as there will be no more spinning of anything once I unhook engine.
Next up, hoping to remove master link on the chain coupling (by feel). If anything is stripped in there, it is the coupling to Hydrostatic Pump adapter. Popping those chains off will also positively let me pull engine without fear of further damage.

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I personally would love to see how a Subaru engine was shoe-horned into this machine!! Pictures please!!
BTW - beauty job on the boat!!
Cheers - SR

SkidRoe said:

I personally would love to see how a Subaru engine was shoe-horned into this machine!! Pictures please!!
BTW - beauty job on the boat!!
Cheers - SR

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Sorry it took so long. Too many irons....yada yada.
Well I got the back door off and the hydraulic cooler out of the way. And waddya know? There's a car engine in there!
I'll try to post up some better shots when I pull that pig outta there. I managed to get the chain off the coupling. Certainly is a blown coupling. The gear on the input shaft to the pump spun freely. Here is how much play there was:

So my next hurdle (after pulling the engine) is to verify the condition of the pump shaft. Does anyone have access to this type of info (shaft specs)? I know that it is tapered with a square key (or HAD a square key) but no actual specs. Hopefully when the coupling gear let loose, it didn't damage the shaft too badly.

Tuned said:

Sorry it took so long. Too many irons....yada yada.
Well I got the back door off and the hydraulic cooler out of the way. And waddya know? There's a car engine in there!
I'll try to post up some better shots when I pull that pig outta there. I managed to get the chain off the coupling. Certainly is a blown coupling. The gear on the input shaft to the pump spun freely. Here is how much play there was:

So my next hurdle (after pulling the engine) is to verify the condition of the pump shaft. Does anyone have access to this type of info (shaft specs)? I know that it is tapered with a square key (or HAD a square key) but no actual specs. Hopefully when the coupling gear let loose, it didn't damage the shaft too badly.

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Sadly i have no info in it. Hopefully when you get the engine and pump out you will find the damage. Let's hope it's not too nasty and cheap to fix.

Tazza said:

Sadly i have no info in it. Hopefully when you get the engine and pump out you will find the damage. Let's hope it's not too nasty and cheap to fix.

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Well I finally got the car engine out. Unhooking wiring took the longest. It was a total mess, unlabeled, no color coded wire with no quick plugs. Splices everywhere. I'm gonna fix it all up before putting it back in.
The pump gear is adapted from the original shaft adaptor (splined), original coupling (splined internally) which was welded into the chain sprocket that you see here. I did a TON of research on chain couplings and the available gears etc... Final prognosis, I will likely build an adaptor very similar to what it was (with a small change to hopefully eliminate that failure point)
Here is the offending gear. Kinda hard to pump fluid with no teeth left.
Everything came off OK but this final splined adaptor on the tapered pump shaft. I broke my puller and it is still hanging tough. Crud. I either gotta use some heat, or more likely will grind it down to the key-which will take some time. The teeth still look OK and I thought about leaving it on but I am hoping to use all new stuff and only do this crappy job ONCE

Tuned said:

Well I finally got the car engine out. Unhooking wiring took the longest. It was a total mess, unlabeled, no color coded wire with no quick plugs. Splices everywhere. I'm gonna fix it all up before putting it back in.
The pump gear is adapted from the original shaft adaptor (splined), original coupling (splined internally) which was welded into the chain sprocket that you see here. I did a TON of research on chain couplings and the available gears etc... Final prognosis, I will likely build an adaptor very similar to what it was (with a small change to hopefully eliminate that failure point)
Here is the offending gear. Kinda hard to pump fluid with no teeth left.
Everything came off OK but this final splined adaptor on the tapered pump shaft. I broke my puller and it is still hanging tough. Crud. I either gotta use some heat, or more likely will grind it down to the key-which will take some time. The teeth still look OK and I thought about leaving it on but I am hoping to use all new stuff and only do this crappy job ONCE

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I had one close to this I put the puller on and gave it a tap came right off another member had one and it gave him fits he ended up grinding it and spliting it still a pain some yahoo put red locktight on it

antfarmer2 said:

I had one close to this I put the puller on and gave it a tap came right off another member had one and it gave him fits he ended up grinding it and spliting it still a pain some yahoo put red locktight on it

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I'd try a puller again and hit the shaft, hhopefully it will pop free, unlike the nightmare antfarmer spoke of. His was loctited on... It was enver going to come off in one piece.