963g bics blowing fuses

Help Support SkidSteer Forum:

Pickuptrck

Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2014
Messages
17
Hello all, first post here so thank you for the knowledge base. I bought a 963g (year unknown just yet) she has BICS but no BOSS. that is blowing BICS fuses on power up. History: bought 2 weeks ago, ran fine as best as I could tell. ruptured a diagnostic hydraulic line and spewed fluid everywhere. Drained tank dry before I realized what happened only after losing drive, fluid trail everywhere I just was. Replaced the line, refilled, hosed engine bay down with garden hose to check for new leaks and cleaned the floor board pedal area of about 20 lbs of rocks and garbage ( no drain in the floor board???? Geniuses). Bics fuse then blows for the first time, no hydraulic movement. throw in a new one, finish idling to purge air, BICS shows all green lights (I do not have a seat light on mine and all lights lit in series as they were supposed to prior to BICS Troubles) backed up and started to scrape dirt/fill bucket for about 20 seconds. BICS blows fuse second time and now blows at power on every time. Attempted fixes: Seperated EVERY electrical connection I could find, sprayed with electrical clearer. Covered rubber seal with dielectric grease (not any pins). Applied power to aluminum block in engine bay at front most area near where feet are and DID hear a click on the right hand plug (green and black wire on harness side). No response on left side. I assume that was at least one of the traction locks, no bucket or drive movement. Where do I begin? Thank you in advance. [email protected] 405-651-5897
 

OldMachinist

Well-known member
Joined
May 24, 2006
Messages
2,748
After checking every wire in the BICS sensor wire loom arc the can pivot down to the sensors and disconnecting the BICS module I'm still blowing a fuse ?
If it's still blowing the fuse with the BICS box disconnected then either the orange wire that the powers the box is shorted somewhere or the fuse box is maybe still wet from the cleaning.
 
OP
OP
P

Pickuptrck

Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2014
Messages
17
If it's still blowing the fuse with the BICS box disconnected then either the orange wire that the powers the box is shorted somewhere or the fuse box is maybe still wet from the cleaning.
Thank you OM. I will trace that one after work tomorrow. Would it be possible to remove the traction lock solenoid? I understand it's purpose, but I also got 1 repair bill on my '03 powerstroke and swapped in a '94 cummins without a computer and 8 wires to the engine. Computers belong on desks and phones. With a seat-bar-down locking mechanism Already there. I would much prefer a contact relay shutting off the hydrostatic solenoid when it's up than BICS. Or no safeties at all, my hummer at work doesn't even have park and I'm still alive. It's the operator.
 

OldMachinist

Well-known member
Joined
May 24, 2006
Messages
2,748
Thank you OM. I will trace that one after work tomorrow. Would it be possible to remove the traction lock solenoid? I understand it's purpose, but I also got 1 repair bill on my '03 powerstroke and swapped in a '94 cummins without a computer and 8 wires to the engine. Computers belong on desks and phones. With a seat-bar-down locking mechanism Already there. I would much prefer a contact relay shutting off the hydrostatic solenoid when it's up than BICS. Or no safeties at all, my hummer at work doesn't even have park and I'm still alive. It's the operator.
 photo BICS_wiring_zpsf73b2694.jpg
 
OP
OP
P

Pickuptrck

Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2014
Messages
17
I ohmd the orange wire from the fuse panel to the BICS module and got 0.04 steady. The orange wire is a ground. The other wire on the fuse terminal set had 12.8 key on and 14.5 running. I jumper wired the fuse with leads from the hot terminal to one fuse leg with it floating in air, not in the terminal block at all, then to the orange/black 2 wire plug on the orange side of the block just to the front of the hydraulic pump assembly. Fuse lasted about 3 seconds before popping. Isn't the small resistor wired at the cab pivot which branches off to 4 or so black wires supposed to reduce the volts down to some top secret bobcat voltage?
 

OldMachinist

Well-known member
Joined
May 24, 2006
Messages
2,748
I ohmd the orange wire from the fuse panel to the BICS module and got 0.04 steady. The orange wire is a ground. The other wire on the fuse terminal set had 12.8 key on and 14.5 running. I jumper wired the fuse with leads from the hot terminal to one fuse leg with it floating in air, not in the terminal block at all, then to the orange/black 2 wire plug on the orange side of the block just to the front of the hydraulic pump assembly. Fuse lasted about 3 seconds before popping. Isn't the small resistor wired at the cab pivot which branches off to 4 or so black wires supposed to reduce the volts down to some top secret bobcat voltage?
The orange wire that I have the arrow pointing to is 12v positive from the 10 amp BICS fuse. The wire with the resistor clearing shows being ground on the wiring diagram I posted.
 photo BICS_wiring2_zps8cb841bf.jpg

So just to make sure I'm looking at the right wiring diagram what it the machine serial number?
 
OP
OP
P

Pickuptrck

Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2014
Messages
17
The orange wire that I have the arrow pointing to is 12v positive from the 10 amp BICS fuse. The wire with the resistor clearing shows being ground on the wiring diagram I posted.

So just to make sure I'm looking at the right wiring diagram what it the machine serial number?
Thank you OM. I guess my trouble is the fuse keeps blowing, so the orange wire isn't powered. When I ohmd the orange wire all the way from the main BICS plug to the fuse 0.04 showed me the line had no short. This is my first time diagnosing electrical so please excuse my ignorance on it. When I tried jumpering straight from the battery to the positive (orange) and negative (pink with white stripe) on the BICS cab pivot harness I still have no power to the unit unless I'm missing something?
 
OP
OP
P

Pickuptrck

Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2014
Messages
17
I ohmd the orange wire from the fuse panel to the BICS module and got 0.04 steady. The orange wire is a ground. The other wire on the fuse terminal set had 12.8 key on and 14.5 running. I jumper wired the fuse with leads from the hot terminal to one fuse leg with it floating in air, not in the terminal block at all, then to the orange/black 2 wire plug on the orange side of the block just to the front of the hydraulic pump assembly. Fuse lasted about 3 seconds before popping. Isn't the small resistor wired at the cab pivot which branches off to 4 or so black wires supposed to reduce the volts down to some top secret bobcat voltage?
If the traction lock solenoid is similar to a cummins shutdown solenoid. Couldn't I just find it, pull the plunger up with a hook spring and keep BICS offline? I'd be fine with wiring the park brake straight to the lock solenoid if not having BICS freaks people out that much.
 

OldMachinist

Well-known member
Joined
May 24, 2006
Messages
2,748
If the traction lock solenoid is similar to a cummins shutdown solenoid. Couldn't I just find it, pull the plunger up with a hook spring and keep BICS offline? I'd be fine with wiring the park brake straight to the lock solenoid if not having BICS freaks people out that much.
In your posts you said the fuse blows even with the BICS unplugged so the wiring has to be shorted because the orange power wire from the fuse only powers the BICS.
With the fuse out and the BICS connector unplugged, using you ohm meter connect one lead to the orange wire at the connector, then touch the other lead to a bare metal spot on the machine. The readout on the meter shouldn't change indicating no connection from the orange wire to ground. If readout changes then the wire is shorted somewhere.
 
OP
OP
P

Pickuptrck

Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2014
Messages
17
In your posts you said the fuse blows even with the BICS unplugged so the wiring has to be shorted because the orange power wire from the fuse only powers the BICS.
With the fuse out and the BICS connector unplugged, using you ohm meter connect one lead to the orange wire at the connector, then touch the other lead to a bare metal spot on the machine. The readout on the meter shouldn't change indicating no connection from the orange wire to ground. If readout changes then the wire is shorted somewhere.
Thank you OM for your patience. Based on your logical positiveness I went at the very tightly braided wiring harness at the cab pivot point with a wire snipped and got 1/84th of an inch at a time. it turns out the BICS fuse orange wire had actually been used to jump another Orange wire which branched off and goes up into the starter switch panel on the drivers left above. when I cut that I stopped blowing fuses however I now have a traction lock solenoid shorted to ground that came up. all the BICS is powering up and operating the bucket fine now. I get six flashes from the BICS unit and no traction unlock. I don't know if these are related I do have a silver aluminum looking box bolted were attraction solenoid looks like it should go directly in the middle below the seat when I called bobcat they said it can be bypassed (to trailer load it to them only of course for $90 an hour) if I place a fitting in the middle of the high-pressure line however I don't know if what I've done with cleaning it is the reason it's even acting up now at all. My other question is if you're aware of what the other Orange line going up into the left-hand bank of switches is it was made with a pretty high-tech crush crimp device where only the wires were fused together with some sort of a diamond plate looking pattern it didn't look like a hack job it almost looks factory. Probably unrelated but my high range indicator light won't come on now, but I can't honestly say I ever tried it unless my traction lock was already disengaged. THANK YOU :)
 

OldMachinist

Well-known member
Joined
May 24, 2006
Messages
2,748
Thank you OM for your patience. Based on your logical positiveness I went at the very tightly braided wiring harness at the cab pivot point with a wire snipped and got 1/84th of an inch at a time. it turns out the BICS fuse orange wire had actually been used to jump another Orange wire which branched off and goes up into the starter switch panel on the drivers left above. when I cut that I stopped blowing fuses however I now have a traction lock solenoid shorted to ground that came up. all the BICS is powering up and operating the bucket fine now. I get six flashes from the BICS unit and no traction unlock. I don't know if these are related I do have a silver aluminum looking box bolted were attraction solenoid looks like it should go directly in the middle below the seat when I called bobcat they said it can be bypassed (to trailer load it to them only of course for $90 an hour) if I place a fitting in the middle of the high-pressure line however I don't know if what I've done with cleaning it is the reason it's even acting up now at all. My other question is if you're aware of what the other Orange line going up into the left-hand bank of switches is it was made with a pretty high-tech crush crimp device where only the wires were fused together with some sort of a diamond plate looking pattern it didn't look like a hack job it almost looks factory. Probably unrelated but my high range indicator light won't come on now, but I can't honestly say I ever tried it unless my traction lock was already disengaged. THANK YOU :)
Like I said before, to make sure I'm looking at the right wiring diagram I need at least the first seven digits of the machine serial number.
 

OldMachinist

Well-known member
Joined
May 24, 2006
Messages
2,748
562211832. Sorry, i had missed that request before
I looked at the wiring diagram for your serial number and it doesn't show any wires spliced on to the orange wire from the BICS fuse. Straight run from the fuse thru a couple of connectors to the BICS box connector. You'll have to trace the added wire to see what its attached to.
 
OP
OP
P

Pickuptrck

Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2014
Messages
17
I looked at the wiring diagram for your serial number and it doesn't show any wires spliced on to the orange wire from the BICS fuse. Straight run from the fuse thru a couple of connectors to the BICS box connector. You'll have to trace the added wire to see what its attached to.
BICS gave 6 flashes for the traction lock (lift and tilt is solid green and operating) so I installed a new solenoid from bobcat on the aluminum splitter block, left side, straight under the seat. No luck =( Still 6 flashes, maintenance book shows short to ground. There are 2 solenoids on this block and I'd love to just eliminate it all together. The sides of the block are marked "P" on the right side with a hyrdo line going towards the hydro pump area, a T fitting with 2 lines and a stamped letter (A or B, I forget which) that appear to run to the wheel motors,then 2 single reurn lines leading to a capped solenoid on the machine wall and the other tees into the hydro tank return. My question is can I simply let BICS blink and get it moving for a week by Teeing the line on "P" to the Tee fitting with 2 lines off of it to jumper the park barke off. After a week, I' will be able to take this machine down fro months, right now I need it moved though. can the solenoid and its plunger be removed on the high pressure side then the port plugged to finish this job? I would be happier spending $2k to replace every solenoid with throw handles.
 

7LBSSMALLIE

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 2, 2012
Messages
1,290
BICS gave 6 flashes for the traction lock (lift and tilt is solid green and operating) so I installed a new solenoid from bobcat on the aluminum splitter block, left side, straight under the seat. No luck =( Still 6 flashes, maintenance book shows short to ground. There are 2 solenoids on this block and I'd love to just eliminate it all together. The sides of the block are marked "P" on the right side with a hyrdo line going towards the hydro pump area, a T fitting with 2 lines and a stamped letter (A or B, I forget which) that appear to run to the wheel motors,then 2 single reurn lines leading to a capped solenoid on the machine wall and the other tees into the hydro tank return. My question is can I simply let BICS blink and get it moving for a week by Teeing the line on "P" to the Tee fitting with 2 lines off of it to jumper the park barke off. After a week, I' will be able to take this machine down fro months, right now I need it moved though. can the solenoid and its plunger be removed on the high pressure side then the port plugged to finish this job? I would be happier spending $2k to replace every solenoid with throw handles.
if memory serves. there also a diode in this circuit. need complete schematic. not just bics. keep in mind that bics is voltage sensitive as well 10.9 max 7 min. check alt for full field as well as rpm signal. this is a spring applied pressure release sys. not just a drop in wedge. that also depeneds on S/N range many different varitions of 963. but still should have a pull voltage and a hold voltage . check relays as well. being as you have stumped me ill refresh my 963 skills and get back to you. if not resolved quickly please post if fixed or not.
 
OP
OP
P

Pickuptrck

Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2014
Messages
17
I looked at the wiring diagram for your serial number and it doesn't show any wires spliced on to the orange wire from the BICS fuse. Straight run from the fuse thru a couple of connectors to the BICS box connector. You'll have to trace the added wire to see what its attached to.
The weather finally let up for a quick bit of monkeying under the hood. With everything plugged in, I get 6 flashes on BICS traction lock, all others steady green. When I unplug the 5-prong relaythat feeds it, I get a 1-flash change. With the relay plugged in and the solenoids unplugged, I still get 6 flashes so I'm assuming I have yet another short from BICS to the relay this time. The solenoid Bobcat sold me goes on the left side of the aluminuim block (with a spring loaded plunger), but the hoses that go to the wheels on a Tee are on the right?? Did they sell me the wrong relay? OM, I traced the wire causing all the former problems. It was a no-purpose wire added by someone in he distant past going up into the cab that had ground out on the ROPS cage. Thank you for your patience.
 
Top