The 453 Attchment Challange

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Katoh

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Jul 31, 2012
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G'Day Friends Following my last post on trying to find a quick attach coupler from my 453 to regular BobTach has lead me to this path, well sort of to this path. I have been looking for attachments and have found the ones I want at the price I wont but, "for some reason there is always a but", some of attachments do not have a certain facility that I require. The backhoe attachment is fixed to the centre, so why not make it have the capability to make it move from side to side for offset positions. The dozer blade did not have the capability to tilt in a vertical axis, so my thinking is why not incorporate both of these into the adaptor. My question to you that are much more knowledgeable than myself, for side to side control is a basic fix, simply make the adaptor as wide as the machine and have a series of different horizontal locking points. Now the hard one, for vertical tilt, would you pivot from the centre or from an end? Could I use say a mechanical style pivot, e.g lead screw or is hydraulic better. My only concern using hydraulic is finding a divertor valve and ram cylinder to suit Thanks For Reading. Cheers Katoh
 

jerry

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If the work you are going to do needs the extra positioning then that's what you need to do. However you may be overthinking the whole thing, the available attachments and mountings have been developed over many years to suit most situations. However they only make what they can sell so if you need something other by all means build it, all you will ever be out is some steel and time.
 

billrbg

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If the work you are going to do needs the extra positioning then that's what you need to do. However you may be overthinking the whole thing, the available attachments and mountings have been developed over many years to suit most situations. However they only make what they can sell so if you need something other by all means build it, all you will ever be out is some steel and time.
Have you done any backhoe work yet? You may find that being able to mount it off-center isn't of great benefit. I have a (heavier) 743 with 909 backhoe and find the there isn't enough weight, many times, to keep the hoe from dragging the B'cat around. When the hoe is straight out from the 743 this isn't too much of a problem, it just drags you along the trench you are digging. However, if the hoe is at much of an angle, then you have to constantly re-position the B'cat, and are limited to how hard a "bite" you can take with the hoe. I'm guessing that an off-center mounted hoe would have similar (maybe worse) limitations. Understand, I HAVE used the hoe for digging at up to a right-angle (full boom swing) from the B'cat where access was limited, but digging like that is real slow...
 

[email protected]

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Have you done any backhoe work yet? You may find that being able to mount it off-center isn't of great benefit. I have a (heavier) 743 with 909 backhoe and find the there isn't enough weight, many times, to keep the hoe from dragging the B'cat around. When the hoe is straight out from the 743 this isn't too much of a problem, it just drags you along the trench you are digging. However, if the hoe is at much of an angle, then you have to constantly re-position the B'cat, and are limited to how hard a "bite" you can take with the hoe. I'm guessing that an off-center mounted hoe would have similar (maybe worse) limitations. Understand, I HAVE used the hoe for digging at up to a right-angle (full boom swing) from the B'cat where access was limited, but digging like that is real slow...
yeah, bobcat backhoes are good for like trenching, but anything thats a little awkward they are just very limited. they are good for what they are good for, don't expect to dig a cellar hole with it.
 
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Katoh

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yeah, bobcat backhoes are good for like trenching, but anything thats a little awkward they are just very limited. they are good for what they are good for, don't expect to dig a cellar hole with it.
Thanks for the replies, lots of food for thought and I realise that I wont be winning any digging competitions soon with this machine, but it still beats using a shovel. LOL. I have to build the adaptor regardless to use the attachments this is the whole point, If a bit a little more into it I get a lot more back, so I'm basically trying to build an adjustable Tilt-Tach. Just not certain on the Hydraulics as I posted earlier or to put the pivot on the edge or to centre. Do you use a 3 way valve to control 2 cylinders? This is a learning curve for me. Cheers Katoh
 

billrbg

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Thanks for the replies, lots of food for thought and I realise that I wont be winning any digging competitions soon with this machine, but it still beats using a shovel. LOL. I have to build the adaptor regardless to use the attachments this is the whole point, If a bit a little more into it I get a lot more back, so I'm basically trying to build an adjustable Tilt-Tach. Just not certain on the Hydraulics as I posted earlier or to put the pivot on the edge or to centre. Do you use a 3 way valve to control 2 cylinders? This is a learning curve for me. Cheers Katoh
Generally, you use a *4-way* valve to control a *single* double-acting cylinder.
 
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Katoh

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Generally, you use a *4-way* valve to control a *single* double-acting cylinder.
Sorry I think I'm asking the wrong question here, Ill try and elaborate a bit. The attachment adaptor that I'm thinking of building will need one cylinder on it to control vertical tilt the attachment itself being either Dozer blade or Skidhoe will have its own cylinder. The machine has only one hydraulic attachment outlet. Therefore I need to run 2 cylinders off one line "not at the same time of course" but I know you get a valve that will let you run one or the other, but what valve? and what setup is needed? are the questions Thanks Katoh
 

[email protected]

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Sorry I think I'm asking the wrong question here, Ill try and elaborate a bit. The attachment adaptor that I'm thinking of building will need one cylinder on it to control vertical tilt the attachment itself being either Dozer blade or Skidhoe will have its own cylinder. The machine has only one hydraulic attachment outlet. Therefore I need to run 2 cylinders off one line "not at the same time of course" but I know you get a valve that will let you run one or the other, but what valve? and what setup is needed? are the questions Thanks Katoh
ok i think we misunderstood you by "adapter" i think we thought you mean for the bobtach. bobcat probably sells a kit for your machine for the 7 pin plug to control more than one function. although, why couldnt you just use the up and down on the bucket tilt to control the height?
 
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Katoh

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ok i think we misunderstood you by "adapter" i think we thought you mean for the bobtach. bobcat probably sells a kit for your machine for the 7 pin plug to control more than one function. although, why couldnt you just use the up and down on the bucket tilt to control the height?
I would be interested in looking at this seven pin plug, trying find things for the 453 is like trying to find Rocking-horse Shite. I need to make an adaptor plate from my Bobtach on the 453 which is again something totally unique to match hell knows what, but certainly not bobcat or anything else skid steer or to the universal mini fitting these attachments come with. The Dozer blade has no vertical tilt, but has left and right tilt. My thoughts where to incorporate in the adaptor a vertical tilt for working on slopey ground, could even be a plus with the skidhoe to keep it level or even on an auger. Cheers Katoh
 

SkidRoe

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Sorry I think I'm asking the wrong question here, Ill try and elaborate a bit. The attachment adaptor that I'm thinking of building will need one cylinder on it to control vertical tilt the attachment itself being either Dozer blade or Skidhoe will have its own cylinder. The machine has only one hydraulic attachment outlet. Therefore I need to run 2 cylinders off one line "not at the same time of course" but I know you get a valve that will let you run one or the other, but what valve? and what setup is needed? are the questions Thanks Katoh
Is this the type of backhoe that you are thinking?
http://www.skidsteerforum.com/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=54&frmView=ShowPost&PostID=77581
If so, you only need a single function and your stock single aux's will work fine.
As far as I know, there is not 7 pin connector available for the older mini machines - correct me if I am wrong.
I am thinking about adding a second function to my hoe to add a hydraulic thumb. If I do this, there are solenoid operated diverter valves available, something like this:
http://www.farmequipment24-7.com/Hydraulic_Multiplier_SCV_Splitter_Diverter_Valve_p/scvmultpb.htm
Regards - SR
 
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Katoh

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Is this the type of backhoe that you are thinking?
http://www.skidsteerforum.com/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=54&frmView=ShowPost&PostID=77581
If so, you only need a single function and your stock single aux's will work fine.
As far as I know, there is not 7 pin connector available for the older mini machines - correct me if I am wrong.
I am thinking about adding a second function to my hoe to add a hydraulic thumb. If I do this, there are solenoid operated diverter valves available, something like this:
http://www.farmequipment24-7.com/Hydraulic_Multiplier_SCV_Splitter_Diverter_Valve_p/scvmultpb.htm
Regards - SR
SR We are actually both on the same track, yes the backhoe looks remarkably the same, my madness comes from the dozer blade where it is only 4 way not 6, to have that up/down vertical tilt would be a big advantage and because all these attachments that I'm looking at all come from the same place, where the deal is too good, I might as well incorporate that in all the attachments simply through the adaptor. I just found the same sort of splitter on Ebay as follows. http://www.ebay.com/itm/MANUAL-Hydraulic-Multiplier-SCV-Splitter-Valve-Diverter-Valve-1-Outlet-into-2-/331306809530?pt=BI_Heavy_Equipment_Parts&hash=item4d236cb8ba but without the wiring.
 

SkidRoe

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SR We are actually both on the same track, yes the backhoe looks remarkably the same, my madness comes from the dozer blade where it is only 4 way not 6, to have that up/down vertical tilt would be a big advantage and because all these attachments that I'm looking at all come from the same place, where the deal is too good, I might as well incorporate that in all the attachments simply through the adaptor. I just found the same sort of splitter on Ebay as follows. http://www.ebay.com/itm/MANUAL-Hydraulic-Multiplier-SCV-Splitter-Valve-Diverter-Valve-1-Outlet-into-2-/331306809530?pt=BI_Heavy_Equipment_Parts&hash=item4d236cb8ba but without the wiring.
I see. I think I would hold out for the solenoid operated one, getting out of the seat to switch functions everytime would get old fast!!
It was stated before, could you not just tilt the bucket tilt the blade? Or are you referring to "rocking" the blade?
Just a comment on offsetting your backhoe attachement to one side - don't do it!! These things put a ton of force on the front of your machine, more than I ever expected. It is best to try keep these loads balanced.
Keep us posted on your progress, and as always, post pictures!!
Cheers - SR
 
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Katoh

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I see. I think I would hold out for the solenoid operated one, getting out of the seat to switch functions everytime would get old fast!!
It was stated before, could you not just tilt the bucket tilt the blade? Or are you referring to "rocking" the blade?
Just a comment on offsetting your backhoe attachement to one side - don't do it!! These things put a ton of force on the front of your machine, more than I ever expected. It is best to try keep these loads balanced.
Keep us posted on your progress, and as always, post pictures!!
Cheers - SR
I am talking about rocking the blade not tilting the blade, You too have mentioned about not offsetting, definitely have to rethink that one, just makes a little less work for me building this adaptor. I definitely will expand this post with pics, just about to place the order for the attachments, I've got a Dozer blade a SkidHoe (Backhoe) and an Auger, I'm looking at them as a package. Just have to wait know to they arrive, but a bit of planning doesn't go to far astray. Cheers Katoh
 

billrbg

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I am talking about rocking the blade not tilting the blade, You too have mentioned about not offsetting, definitely have to rethink that one, just makes a little less work for me building this adaptor. I definitely will expand this post with pics, just about to place the order for the attachments, I've got a Dozer blade a SkidHoe (Backhoe) and an Auger, I'm looking at them as a package. Just have to wait know to they arrive, but a bit of planning doesn't go to far astray. Cheers Katoh
Without outriggers, a hoe is going to drag you around a lot. And, without boom swing you are going to *have* to dance the B'cat around to dump each load. I'm even more convinced a hoe side-shift is worthless in your case. My *opinion*, folks, from using a 909 hoe and 743 in serious trenching. Post your own for counter-point, but no bickering please!
 

SkidRoe

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Without outriggers, a hoe is going to drag you around a lot. And, without boom swing you are going to *have* to dance the B'cat around to dump each load. I'm even more convinced a hoe side-shift is worthless in your case. My *opinion*, folks, from using a 909 hoe and 743 in serious trenching. Post your own for counter-point, but no bickering please!
Actually with this style of hoe, you actually drag it!! Since you have limited stick breakout force, backing up is your only recourse. From what I have found, most of the digging power comes from curling the bucket and lifting the boom. It takes a bit of effort to get the trench to depth, but once you are there, it digs pretty well.
I was able to get Dad's unit up and running on the weekend on the 773. It has a lot more stick breakout force than the one on the mini machine.
For the $500 a piece it cost to built them, we are plenty pleased with both of them.
But yes, I will agree, for serious trenching, rent a mini-ex!!
SR
 
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Katoh

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Actually with this style of hoe, you actually drag it!! Since you have limited stick breakout force, backing up is your only recourse. From what I have found, most of the digging power comes from curling the bucket and lifting the boom. It takes a bit of effort to get the trench to depth, but once you are there, it digs pretty well.
I was able to get Dad's unit up and running on the weekend on the 773. It has a lot more stick breakout force than the one on the mini machine.
For the $500 a piece it cost to built them, we are plenty pleased with both of them.
But yes, I will agree, for serious trenching, rent a mini-ex!!
SR
I couldn't agree with you gentlemen more about the proper machines for the job, but this is personal use only, I don't hire myself or the machine out. If I have to dig a footing I bring in a full size backhoe and driver. This little 453 is my yard right-hand man, that I occasion loan to friends, nothing serious about it. Just want more versatility. Cheers Katoh
 

[email protected]

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I couldn't agree with you gentlemen more about the proper machines for the job, but this is personal use only, I don't hire myself or the machine out. If I have to dig a footing I bring in a full size backhoe and driver. This little 453 is my yard right-hand man, that I occasion loan to friends, nothing serious about it. Just want more versatility. Cheers Katoh
i'd just keep my eye on a 406 or whatever the backhoe is called that fits your machine, the really small one. they come on craigslist every once in a while.
 
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Katoh

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i'd just keep my eye on a 406 or whatever the backhoe is called that fits your machine, the really small one. they come on craigslist every once in a while.
I have only seen one advertised on Ebay, sold for 5k, the dealer wants 8.5k for a new one. Welcome to Oz, I see a lot of things and the prices you pay over in the US and frankly I shake my head, take your prices and times them by 10 and that's ours. I just had quote from one firm here for a MINI dozer blade wants 3K WTF!
 

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