Need opinions on if this trailer will carry my Bobcat

Barnaby · Apr 15, 2014

I have located this trailer http://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/hvo/4410792222.html I am scheduled to meet him tomorrow to pick it up. The ad says its a 1970. It looks purpose built to me, and the only bobcat from back then that I know if is the 610 which was *I think* 3800 pounds. My Bobcat is a 763 @ 5600 pounds. The Current owner knows little about it as it came with his 743(@ 4800 pounds). So question is, does anyone think this thing is remotely stout enough for my 763? Thanks for any brave souls willing to hazard a guess. And a guess does not constitute legal advice or otherwise. Cheers, Barnaby

TriHonu · Apr 15, 2014

It will probably haul your 763 if the tires are spaced the same as that trailer. With those ramps and supports it is designed for a specific tire width and spacing. With that short bed you can not change the tongue weight by changing the placement of the loader. Also check if the trailer has brakes. In Washington brakes are required for towing over 3000 lbs.
It looks too light for my tastes. My 7000 GTW pan deck is marginal when you load the 763 with bucket. Remember the trailer GTW rating includes the weight of the trailer. I use my 10,000 GTW 16 ft trailer because it allows me to place the loader on the trailer for the best weight distribution.
Personally, you have to ask yourself if hauling a $10,000 loader on a $600 trailer makes sense to you. You not only are risking damage to the loader if something goes wrong, you potentially are risking a lawsuit if you cause an accident and hurt someone.

jerry · Apr 15, 2014

TriHonu said:
It will probably haul your 763 if the tires are spaced the same as that trailer. With those ramps and supports it is designed for a specific tire width and spacing. With that short bed you can not change the tongue weight by changing the placement of the loader. Also check if the trailer has brakes. In Washington brakes are required for towing over 3000 lbs.
It looks too light for my tastes. My 7000 GTW pan deck is marginal when you load the 763 with bucket. Remember the trailer GTW rating includes the weight of the trailer. I use my 10,000 GTW 16 ft trailer because it allows me to place the loader on the trailer for the best weight distribution.
Personally, you have to ask yourself if hauling a $10,000 loader on a $600 trailer makes sense to you. You not only are risking damage to the loader if something goes wrong, you potentially are risking a lawsuit if you cause an accident and hurt someone.

I would not buy that trailer for your machine. Mine weighs about the same and I traded my 7000 lb trailer for a 10000 for all the reasons already listed. Really I should have gone to a 12000 but the ten handles it well at highway speeds. Insurance company may have a opinion also.

jhatchett · Apr 16, 2014

Where are you going to be hauling the bobcat? Just around your yard, highways, local backroads? I would check the axles and see if they are up to the heavier loads of the 763 WITH attachments. I like the simplicity of this trailer though. I have been keeping an eye out for a used 16ft 10,000gvw dump trailer to pair with my 763.

jerry · Apr 16, 2014

jhatchett said:
Where are you going to be hauling the bobcat? Just around your yard, highways, local backroads? I would check the axles and see if they are up to the heavier loads of the 763 WITH attachments. I like the simplicity of this trailer though. I have been keeping an eye out for a used 16ft 10,000gvw dump trailer to pair with my 763.

I guess it depends on your personal use. I think the weight of the bobcat is without bucket also. With mine if I have the tracks on it and the backhoe and bucket on the trailer I would not doubt it would be overweight for 10000. 7000 lb trailers usually have 5 lug wheels and tens have 6 lugs for a easy reference.

6brnorma · Apr 16, 2014

jerry said:
I guess it depends on your personal use. I think the weight of the bobcat is without bucket also. With mine if I have the tracks on it and the backhoe and bucket on the trailer I would not doubt it would be overweight for 10000. 7000 lb trailers usually have 5 lug wheels and tens have 6 lugs for a easy reference.

Be aware that the whole world of Federal regulations on truck/trailer weight combos changes the minute you hook onto a 10,000 lb trailer. FWIW…..I don't think that's enough trailer for your bobcat if you are going any distance or often.

tom18287@AOL.COM · Apr 16, 2014

6brnorma said:
Be aware that the whole world of Federal regulations on truck/trailer weight combos changes the minute you hook onto a 10,000 lb trailer. FWIW…..I don't think that's enough trailer for your bobcat if you are going any distance or often.

anything over 10k my dump trailler is 9990. my skid trailer is 8000. anything over 10 is cdl.

usa#1 · Apr 16, 2014

[email protected] said:
anything over 10k my dump trailler is 9990. my skid trailer is 8000. anything over 10 is cdl.

I believe the rules have changed. I may have the terminology slightly wrong, but I believe you add the gvwr of the truck and trailer together and if it's under 26000 then no cdl is required. My old drivers license had the 10000# trailer info but the last time I got them renewed the 10000# trailer limit had been removed.

TriHonu · Apr 17, 2014

usa#1 said:
I believe the rules have changed. I may have the terminology slightly wrong, but I believe you add the gvwr of the truck and trailer together and if it's under 26000 then no cdl is required. My old drivers license had the 10000# trailer info but the last time I got them renewed the 10000# trailer limit had been removed.

It appears that the trailer rules have changed in Minnesota. Both the Commercial and Class D Manuals have been changed and the endorsement info on the back of the license have changed.
The Commercial Drivers Manuals states:

The Commercial Motor Vehicle Safety Act of 1986 requires each state to meet the same minimum standards for commercial driver licensing. You must have a commercial driver's license (CDL) to operate any of the following commercial motor vehicles (CMV) in Minnesota:
• A combination of vehicles in which the gross combination weight (GCW) is more than 26,000 pounds and the towed unit has a gross vehicle weight (GVW)* of more than 10,000 pounds — Minimum age is 18**
• A single vehicle with a GVW exceeding 26,000 pounds — Minimum age is 18**
• A vehicle designed to transport more than 15 persons, including the driver — Minimum age is 18** • Any size vehicle that requires hazardous materials placards — in most cases, you must be 21 years of age to transport hazardous materials. ***
• Any size vehicle outwardly equipped and identified as a school bus — Minimum age is 18 *
Minnesota law defines gross vehicle weight (GVW) as the greater of:
1. The actual weight of the vehicle or combination of vehicles plus the weight of the load, or
2. The manufacturer's gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR)

The Class D License Manual states:

You may also tow a trailer or other vehicle if:
• It has a gross vehicle weight of 10,000 pounds or less, or
• It has a gross vehicle weight of more than 10,000 pounds, but the combined gross vehicle weight of the vehicle and trailer is 26,000 pounds or less

The catch in Minnesota is the trailer is classified by its Weight Rating not the actual weight of the trailer and load. If you pull a trailer rated for 20,000 lbs even if it is empty, the tow vehicle would be limited to a GVWR of 6000 lbs.

mark18mwm · Apr 18, 2014

TriHonu said:
It appears that the trailer rules have changed in Minnesota. Both the Commercial and Class D Manuals have been changed and the endorsement info on the back of the license have changed.
The Commercial Drivers Manuals states:

The Commercial Motor Vehicle Safety Act of 1986 requires each state to meet the same minimum standards for commercial driver licensing. You must have a commercial driver's license (CDL) to operate any of the following commercial motor vehicles (CMV) in Minnesota:
• A combination of vehicles in which the gross combination weight (GCW) is more than 26,000 pounds and the towed unit has a gross vehicle weight (GVW)* of more than 10,000 pounds — Minimum age is 18**
• A single vehicle with a GVW exceeding 26,000 pounds — Minimum age is 18**
• A vehicle designed to transport more than 15 persons, including the driver — Minimum age is 18** • Any size vehicle that requires hazardous materials placards — in most cases, you must be 21 years of age to transport hazardous materials. ***
• Any size vehicle outwardly equipped and identified as a school bus — Minimum age is 18 *
Minnesota law defines gross vehicle weight (GVW) as the greater of:
1. The actual weight of the vehicle or combination of vehicles plus the weight of the load, or
2. The manufacturer's gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR)

The Class D License Manual states:

You may also tow a trailer or other vehicle if:
• It has a gross vehicle weight of 10,000 pounds or less, or
• It has a gross vehicle weight of more than 10,000 pounds, but the combined gross vehicle weight of the vehicle and trailer is 26,000 pounds or less

The catch in Minnesota is the trailer is classified by its Weight Rating not the actual weight of the trailer and load. If you pull a trailer rated for 20,000 lbs even if it is empty, the tow vehicle would be limited to a GVWR of 6000 lbs.

TriHonu, every thing you say is correct, but I would like to add that is not just Mn. everything you posted if federal. That is the law all over the US. state and local laws might even add to these, but these are federal laws at minimum. one thing you didn't cover was any combination of vehicles rated over 10,000 lbs. used commercially, meaning ANY compensation or pay, falls under the rules of the federal highway motor carrier administration. What that means is for anyone who receives any form of payment for using the equipment being hauled you are considered as a commercial vehicle and you have to play by the same rules as someone who drives for a living. That includes complying with keeping and obeying hours of service regulations, 1 million dollar liability insurance on tow vehicle, driver qualification file, vehicle inspection and maintenance records, the list goes on. You might say it doesn't apply to what you or I do, but if you get paid in any way, it does. I went threw this in a different way but the rules are the same. I had a dirt race car. The motor carrier inspectors where and still do target racers because we are considered a commercial motor carrier, that is because we got prize money (compensation) for racing. Never mind it may well cost you $200 a night to race and you might get back only $100 or so, it's still considered pay. Racing is a hobby (a expensive one) but you technically get "paid" to do it. The exact same thing with your skid steer movements, you go do work for some one and get ANY pay, you are now a commercial motor vehicle. I can't tell you all the rules and regs, and I drive truck commercially for over 30 years. I just suggest everyone learns about this stuff before something happens not only can it make a bad day talking to a motor carrier enforcement officer, if you get in a wreck (not necessarily even your fault) they WILL crawl up your butt looking at your records and qualifications. Here is a link to the the FMCSA site, it's a confusing and frustrating site but all the rules are in there, just hard to find, http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/mission/about-us

6brnorma · Apr 18, 2014

mark18mwm said:
TriHonu, every thing you say is correct, but I would like to add that is not just Mn. everything you posted if federal. That is the law all over the US. state and local laws might even add to these, but these are federal laws at minimum. one thing you didn't cover was any combination of vehicles rated over 10,000 lbs. used commercially, meaning ANY compensation or pay, falls under the rules of the federal highway motor carrier administration. What that means is for anyone who receives any form of payment for using the equipment being hauled you are considered as a commercial vehicle and you have to play by the same rules as someone who drives for a living. That includes complying with keeping and obeying hours of service regulations, 1 million dollar liability insurance on tow vehicle, driver qualification file, vehicle inspection and maintenance records, the list goes on. You might say it doesn't apply to what you or I do, but if you get paid in any way, it does. I went threw this in a different way but the rules are the same. I had a dirt race car. The motor carrier inspectors where and still do target racers because we are considered a commercial motor carrier, that is because we got prize money (compensation) for racing. Never mind it may well cost you $200 a night to race and you might get back only $100 or so, it's still considered pay. Racing is a hobby (a expensive one) but you technically get "paid" to do it. The exact same thing with your skid steer movements, you go do work for some one and get ANY pay, you are now a commercial motor vehicle. I can't tell you all the rules and regs, and I drive truck commercially for over 30 years. I just suggest everyone learns about this stuff before something happens not only can it make a bad day talking to a motor carrier enforcement officer, if you get in a wreck (not necessarily even your fault) they WILL crawl up your butt looking at your records and qualifications. Here is a link to the the FMCSA site, it's a confusing and frustrating site but all the rules are in there, just hard to find, http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/mission/about-us

The last two posts are both accurate and informative. I run nine (550 flatbed/w bobcat trailer attached) trucks throughout the southwest US…..the rules are confusing and can change from state to state. My advice is to stay under 10,000 lbs, never hook up to a commercial "looking" truck (flatbed, service truck, etc), NEVER say you are commercial, avoid any 'ports of entry' like the plague, and keep in mind that a 'Patrol' officer rarely knows the rules any better then you……a "DOT" dude will make your life miserable. Stay under the radar!

Barnaby · Apr 18, 2014

Thanks for all the input everyone. Even though had a meeting setup with the guy he ended up selling it before hand. So I guess that was probably for the best. Thanks again for all the information it was very helpfull. Now to find out how to adjust my controls as they seem to not stay "centered" very well. Thanks! Barnaby

jerry · Apr 18, 2014

Barnaby said:
Thanks for all the input everyone. Even though had a meeting setup with the guy he ended up selling it before hand. So I guess that was probably for the best. Thanks again for all the information it was very helpfull. Now to find out how to adjust my controls as they seem to not stay "centered" very well. Thanks! Barnaby

Barnaby, look up Old Machinist's e -mail and send him a note. I think he has a lot of manuals and would possibly send you the centering procedure.

Barnaby · Apr 19, 2014

jerry said:
Barnaby, look up Old Machinist's e -mail and send him a note. I think he has a lot of manuals and would possibly send you the centering procedure.

Thanks Jerry! Will do!

Need opinions on if this trailer will carry my Bobcat

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