2005 Case 410 engine knocking

nehuntnman · Jan 21, 2014

I have a Case 410 that the engine is knocking and smoking white to a gray. I really cannot tell if I am having an injector issue or if their is another issue. The knock does not really sound like a rod. The oil is normal and no antifreeze in the oil. Can anyone give me some insight on this motor. I believe the motor is a Ishkawa. Sorry for the spelling I really could not read the tag. I am not seeing much information on the Case 410 motors or even known issues. Thanks

jerry · Jan 21, 2014

Ishkawajima , will lead you to Shibauru which seems to be the parent company from what I have seen. Does it run smooth and start well otherwise? The smoke would make me think it was a head gasket gone bad.

nehuntnman · Jan 22, 2014

jerry said:
Ishkawajima , will lead you to Shibauru which seems to be the parent company from what I have seen. Does it run smooth and start well otherwise? The smoke would make me think it was a head gasket gone bad.

It starts kind of hard and runs rough after that. If it was a gas engine I would say the choke was stuck on. I have a video of the engine running if I can send it to you or post it somewhere you can view it let me know. The oil has no antifreeze in it. Are parts hard to find for these engines? Thanks for the help!!!!

frogfarmer · Jan 22, 2014

You need to check a few things to verify but sounds like a classic rod bearing failure. Many things can cause this. Loss of oil pressure due to oil pump failure. Wear and tear etc. The smoke is from incomplete combustion in the cylinder that cant make compression due to reduced upward travel of the piston. Don't rule out the head gasket but sounds worse to me. Ive been working on these engines since the eighties.

jerry · Jan 22, 2014

frogfarmer said:
You need to check a few things to verify but sounds like a classic rod bearing failure. Many things can cause this. Loss of oil pressure due to oil pump failure. Wear and tear etc. The smoke is from incomplete combustion in the cylinder that cant make compression due to reduced upward travel of the piston. Don't rule out the head gasket but sounds worse to me. Ive been working on these engines since the eighties.

Doug, e-mail that video to Tazza or Old machinist . They may be able to post it here or in the media section. It sure is a sharp hard knock though.

jerry · Jan 22, 2014

jerry said:
Doug, e-mail that video to Tazza or Old machinist . They may be able to post it here or in the media section. It sure is a sharp hard knock though.

http://youtu.be/EprYkw2Nn4U link to the video on u tube

Ppwcanada · Jan 22, 2014

jerry said:
http://youtu.be/EprYkw2Nn4U link to the video on u tube

wow yes that certainly is distinct. Could it possibly be a bent valve? I find out now there has been a bit of talk that the 410 engines are prone to issues. What is the best way of keeping them alive for longer??

Tazza · Jan 22, 2014

jerry said:
http://youtu.be/EprYkw2Nn4U link to the video on u tube

The smoke and clunk sort of sound like fuel.
Have you pulled out the injectors to see if any are wet? if it's only firing properly on a cylinder or two, it could have an unusual clunk like that too.
It could be a rod noise, but that wouldn't explain the smoke....

frogfarmer · Jan 22, 2014

Tazza said:
The smoke and clunk sort of sound like fuel.
Have you pulled out the injectors to see if any are wet? if it's only firing properly on a cylinder or two, it could have an unusual clunk like that too.
It could be a rod noise, but that wouldn't explain the smoke....

After seeing the vid I would bet on rod bearing failure. I had one let go this summer unloading bales and it sounded/smoked very similar to yours. Oil pump shaft broke and oil pressure/volume went south. When the bearing beat its way out of the rod and the crank wore into the rod it dropped fire on the cylinder and began to smoke. I originally though valve issue and pulled the head to find the piston 3/8" low in the cylinder when it should have been at TDC. My crank, one rod, and the pistons were all shot. Cylinders had some scoring but the block was still usable.

nehuntnman · Jan 23, 2014

frogfarmer said:
After seeing the vid I would bet on rod bearing failure. I had one let go this summer unloading bales and it sounded/smoked very similar to yours. Oil pump shaft broke and oil pressure/volume went south. When the bearing beat its way out of the rod and the crank wore into the rod it dropped fire on the cylinder and began to smoke. I originally though valve issue and pulled the head to find the piston 3/8" low in the cylinder when it should have been at TDC. My crank, one rod, and the pistons were all shot. Cylinders had some scoring but the block was still usable.

I would agree rod bearing is shot! Do these motors have removable sleeves or am I looking at a short block replacement? Where is the best place for engine parts?

Tazza · Jan 23, 2014

nehuntnman said:
I would agree rod bearing is shot! Do these motors have removable sleeves or am I looking at a short block replacement? Where is the best place for engine parts?

Your best bet is to get it apart first, then work out what you need.

frogfarmer · Jan 24, 2014

nehuntnman said:
I would agree rod bearing is shot! Do these motors have removable sleeves or am I looking at a short block replacement? Where is the best place for engine parts?

No liners so no not removable. You can install a repair liner they run a hundred bucks plus labor per hole. The block may very well be good. Parts are very expensive and best sourced from the OEM. Some aftermarket stuff is out there but quality is so so. Did I mention expensive? Complete reman engines can be had for $4500 plus tax and shipping from legit rebuilders. In most cases for a production machine a complete engine is the way to go. If you can afford the down time and have the ability to fix it yourself the cost will be in the $3-4000 range.

2005 Case 410 engine knocking

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