Tazza, I've been doing a lot of reading and I came across a post, long ago, where you discussed checking hydraulic pressure etc. The manual says to use a MEL1355 Pressure Test Kit....well, the sticker shock has me thinking about making my own test kit. I came across a site that listed all the parts for the kit. I can pick up gauges for about $20 apiece, and I assume the fittings and hose cannot be that much. Anyways, this is the item list for the kit: http://www.handsontools.com/Kent-Moore-MEL1355-Pressure-Test-Kit-for-Excavators-_p_74673.html Kent-Moore MEL1355 Pressure Test Kit for Excavators This kit consists of: MEL1355-1: Gauge 0-400 PSI MEL1355-2: Gauge 0-1000 PSI 45763 (Fluid Filled) MEL1355-3: Gauge 0-5000 PSI 303261 (Fluid Filled) MEL1355-4: Hose Assembly 60" MEL1355-5: Male Quick Coupler 1/8" NPTM 214026 MEL1355-6: Adapter 1/8" BSPTM x 1/8" NPTM 304725 MEL1355-7: Teflon Tape MEL1355-8: Socket 1/4" Sq. Dr. x 9/32" Sq. MEL1355-9: Thermometer MEL1355-10: Fitting 90 Degree Elbow 1/8" BSPTM x 1/8" BSPTF 214030 MEL1355-11: Fitting 45 Degree Elbow 1/8" BSPTM x 1/8" BSPTF MEL1355-12: Female Quick Coupler 1/4" NPTF 213165 MEL1355-13: Carrying Case MEL1355-16: Coupler 1/4" NPTF x 1/4" NPTF Question: has anybody built this kit? I'd really like to know what is going on.
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There is no reason why you can't make one for far less than than the $1,189 price tag. You can get gauges even cheaper from surplus centre, a bit of hydraulic hose then required fittings. I'd suspect around the $100-200 mark should do it.
Fittings are not always really cheap, but you can get lucky.
Fittings are not always really cheap, but you can get lucky.
7LBSSMALLIE
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tazz is right, local, all you got do is tap in, screw the fancy QD.s, now as to why you are press testining would assume weak and slow. 331. if im not mistaken (which i may be) has a three section pump. idealy you would flow check all three , and check reliefs. that being said .i have had great luckon these by what i call a hyd tune up. what i mean by this is i flow check (confirm pumps good) and dial in mains and port reliefs, 100 psi makes a world of differance at sticks.bring all pressures to hi side of spec, and run it . you will see the differance, trust me on this, as per breakout etc. night and day, 100 psi is huge.
Thanks 7LBS...will try that once I get the kit together...saving up...broke as a rusty nail. Everything seems ok...just at times, I wonder. Would be good to have a benchmark of what the exact pressures are...maybe tweak a bit if I have room etc...finally got around to reading the manual and it seems very straightforward to check the pump and manifold...
country_boy_2007
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we build all of our own pressure test rigs at work, most times all you need is a decent selection of fittings and you can MacGyver a gauge in anywhere
Just wanted to update that I managed to get my pressure tester up and running...I bought the gauges and whatnot years ago, but never had a need to check anything...up until recently, when I got a little foaming in tank (usually after a hot run - short cool runs, not a problem). So, I looked at reservoir cap...tore it apart, and it looked good to me. I then pull out diagnostic kit I made up, and the diagnostic coupler doesn't fit into Bobcat's ports. So, after three fails, I got the right one Dixon 1PDF2....(1/4" NPT on backside). Very cool being able to measure pressures...haven't checked everything yet, but so far it looks like joystick pilot pressure and pressure build up valve are good. Well, the latter might be a tad high...will double check that one. The manual has fairly easy to follow instructions to check pretty much everything. The only kit I wish I had was a pump flow tester...but there is no Mcgyvering that one...at least easily and cheaply. Main Relief and Cross-port Relief valves for each function will interest me... Maybe even do a little modding...lol I'll know I screw something up, but it is all good...
Ok, got all the pressures... Everything is within specs, albeit on low side, except Main Relief on Manifold block (P2 & P3) - 3300psi (range 3400-3550)). Was hard to get swing over relief as I couldn't get lock on swing to engage, so I used blade as a stop, and arm was fully over relief. Looks like I can adjust main relief to get some more oompf. P1 was 2600psi (boom offset at full relief gets me that number). (range 2550-2700psi) Swing motor (P3) gave me 2650psi going both ways (2650-2950 range). So, generally, all looks good...other than Main Relief has some room to play with. Looking forward to actually adjusting that, as it may give me more oompf on swing and arm. To tuckered to pull out tools and adjust right now...will update once I adjust. Really glad it appears I have no major issues.
Glad all the pressures are about right, means your pumps sound like they are in good shape.
Yeah, thanks Tazza, I think so...so nice to actually measure these things. I wonder why they don`t have electronic pressure gauges in machines nowadays. One would know if something is going south. With all the electronic crap they cram in these things nowadays, figure they would put in a diagnostic board. One could see, over time, the pump slowly degrading...heck, one could tell if the oil they put in is suitable. I change the hydro oil every other sunday it seems...lol. If the glass gets a tad too tan, I change it. The last batch was a no-name Canadian Tire brand ISO 46...I`m thinking maybe I ought to try some good stuff. The local hydro shop has a bucket of Shell ISO 32.... If Bobcat ever gets back to me with a quote, I might just get theirs again. Shipping kills me on hydro oil. Hey Tazza - are you familiar with 331`s pump... The gear section is GSP2 Box 14R uchida hydraulic pump. Haven`t been able to get a read on the rest of it. Not that I need to put in a new one, but it would be nice to know what I have and what options, if any, are out there. I heard on another board, Rexroth is the maker, and Uchida has license to build them. Was playing with other toys, today, but in a couple of days I`ll get to Bobby.
Sorry, never worked on one of those machines.
It would be nice to have full time monitoring on the hydraulic systems, but they don't bother. They should have some sort of sender there for low pressure, as in very low to shut down to help prevent it from eating its self up if something went wrong.
I'd like to think this model would be happy with just about any oil if the weight is right. I thought 46 weight was close to the weight that they recommend, 32 was lighter wasn't it?
Yeah, from what I've gathered ISO 46 is what most folks use, with a small number using ISO 32. The thing is, in older manuals, they say one can use SAE 10W-30 engine oil in a pinch. Well, as I look at tables cross referencing the engine oil with ISO, I get ISO 32.... That is the one bugbear of mine about Bobcat...they don't release their oil specs...I do recall reading someone had managed to get the Cst figures.... At any rate I dropped the CC on oil, filters and teeth today...get them next week. The oil question has bothered me for some time, but I think I can do a test...a flow test of one liter of Bobcat oil vs engine vs 46... Since they will be all at same temps, they will flow at different rates...that will give me an approximation of weight they use. The weight is key imho. The additives....whatever...if one uses a name brand hydraulic oil it should have all the good stuff to keep corrosion/water etc out and protect seals. I mean, my hydraulic oil rarely sees anything over 170F... http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/bobcat-tractors/167002-bobcats-spendy-hyd-fluid-2.html https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1633740#Post1633740
That isn't a bad idea for a test, but to do it right, you'd need to test at room temperature and max operating temperature of the system to know for sure.
I wonder if Bobcat don't release the details because of potential legal issues. If they say use engine oil, if they get some cheap crap oil and it damages the pumps, you can sue them as they said it would work. When they specify the oil brand and grade, there no no chance it can be wrong.
Different companies add different additives, some may work fine in an engine, buy they can eat up hydraulic parts. I heard a story of such an additive that had copper in it, it killed the machine it was put into.
Got er done Tazza! On every page of manual, it clearly notes the need to have machine at operating temps...specifically, the hydro oil at 150F. I adjusted the main relief valve on the manifold! My first play with hydraulics. I don't count the myriad of hoses I've replaced or ram tinkering as hydraulic work. I'll admit, I was a bit daunted by all the hoses and valves everywhere...slowly, I am starting to understand how it all works. Was cool being able to adjust pressure...and it was ridiculously easy. Might even move Bobby into a new weight class....lol Ok, maybe not... On mine, the main relief is just behind the main diagnostic port. Loosen locknut, and use an allen key clockwise to increase MR pressure. One full turn equals 500psi, so I didn't have to turn it much to get back in the zone (bumped it up 100-150psi). The result was the bucket now overpowers the thumb (back to normal), as it should. It didn't before, and that was my first clue something was wrong. I'll get around to the oil changes later....lol BTW - if they spec'd engine oil 10w-30 as a substitute, one would think most name brand hydraulic fluids would work. Just getting the right weight would be key...imo As far as additives go, I would be inclined to stay away from exotic hydraulic oils...just stick to the big brands that don't have some new super duper additives. Really would be nice to get the specs on the pump though...the pump specs are another key...they will tell me what oil it likes to chew on and keeps the pistons happy. As for the rest of the hydraulic system, I doubt they'd mismatch the oil requirements from the pump. Looking forward to firing up Bobby and seeing how the new pressure affects performance.
Glad it was that simple. You didn't have to change it much at all.
It's good that you noticed that it wasn't quite right, like your car, as you drive it all the time, you get to know what is normal and what isn't
You should be able to get specs on the pumps to see wha they are made to eat. People get oil from tractor supply houses, oil designed for hydrostatic drives. The oil needs to be a little thicker than hydraulic oil is.
I cleaned and cleaned the backside of pump, but hand access is silly...took some pics, but some crud is still washing out numbers on a plate on backside. I know it is a Uchida-Rexroth - that is easy to read on plate. The part number is something like EC023S96CG (I know the first 6 digits/letters are correct, but the last 4 are hazy). Could be 9666 966G etc... Will have to go back out and clean some more.... That side has never been cleaned for at least 5 years... Yeah, silly easy to fix...Like anything, first time is always a tad nerve wracking. Nobody wants to fu their machine.Glad it was that simple. You didn't have to change it much at all.
It's good that you noticed that it wasn't quite right, like your car, as you drive it all the time, you get to know what is normal and what isn't
You should be able to get specs on the pumps to see wha they are made to eat. People get oil from tractor supply houses, oil designed for hydrostatic drives. The oil needs to be a little thicker than hydraulic oil is.
Ok, got it Uchida-Rexroth Part # EC023S9666-2 Model # AP2D12LV1RS7-966-2
If anyone has any literature/info on above pump number, I'd be very happy....no idea what I'd do if something went wrong with it as Bobcat has no idea where to get one.... So, after pressure fix on main relief on manifold, I could pick up rocks again without them slipping out. With aux (thumb) being stronger than bucket, it would not allow for a firm grip on a rock... Now, everything is back to normal. Changed every filter in machine (5) and the oil (engine and hydro). Good for another year I suspect. What cluster beep changing the hydro oil...hopefully this will be last time I have oil flowing all over engine compartment...the ORB torx screw one has to remove to drain pump has been replaced with a quick disconnect. I also bought a hose with a quick disconnect to hook up to it, so I can drain oil just like I can with engine (it has a hose with a cap plug). I tried to contain flow, but hot oil was shooting out of plug hole, and the huge funnel I had wasn't draining fast enough.....c'est la vie. Will have to check pressures again, with new oil and filters.... Still have to do a viscosity test on the oils...will update once I do that. Just not keen to play with oil right now...
Having put a few hours on Bobby, the pressure adjustment and new oil/filters certainly made a difference. The former made a big difference on rock and tree handling. Just discovered this site has a photo album...doh! Why I never saw that for all these years in beyond me. I take more pics of my baby more than I do of just anything else...makes it handy to look up parts or whatnot at night in front of computer than walking outside at night with a flashlight.... So, I've put about 8hrs on Bobby with the new quick coupler on pump without it blowing off or leaking... Well worth the $30 in fittings...and $20 for a length of hose with female coupler. I might reverse the setup (have female on machine). Now, if I could figure out how to insert images and not a link, I would be happy....
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Obviously, my attempt to insert pics was a failure....here is the link: http://www.skidsteerforum.com/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=52&gallerypage=1¤titem=15&path=331%20Bobcat%202003%20Melli