Ford CL55 Bleeding air from fuel system?

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RJSStamps

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Just got this 85 Ford CL55 a week ago and cannot figure out how to bleed the air out of the fuel system. It has fuel to the pump but after that it is just barely dripping and the machine will not start. There is no solenoid on this setup so it is all gear driven. I see the hand primer but no clue where to bleed the air off. Thanks in advance!
 

Tazza

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Are you talking lift pump or injector pump?
If the fuel isn't getting pas the lift pump, it may be bad. If its not coming out of the injector pump your fuel shut off solenoid (if fitted) may be stuck or bad.
 
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RJSStamps

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Are you talking lift pump or injector pump?
If the fuel isn't getting pas the lift pump, it may be bad. If its not coming out of the injector pump your fuel shut off solenoid (if fitted) may be stuck or bad.
As in my original post, there is NO solenoid. I am getting fuel TO the primer pump but not to the injectors. How can I bleed this setup? Does it need bled at both the lift pump and injector pump? If so how? I don't know much about these.
 

Miker67

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As in my original post, there is NO solenoid. I am getting fuel TO the primer pump but not to the injectors. How can I bleed this setup? Does it need bled at both the lift pump and injector pump? If so how? I don't know much about these.
While your motor may not have a solenoid, there has to be some form of shut down mechanism that shut's the fuel injector pump output off. A lever or something. I have fought with many an old motor only to find out I didn't even have the fuel turned on.
Now, if your absolutely sure that your fuel is turned on, I find using a marine style primer bulb helps greatly. You put it in the fuel line before the primary filter. It only costs like four bucks and I install one on every piece of equipment I own and every piece in our fleet. If you change the fuel filter, squeeze the bulb as you tighten the filter and it fills the whole system up so no hard starts. Also is a huge time saver if the guys run stuff out of fuel. Using that method, you can just have someone pump the bulb while someone else cranks and most of the time things start in short order. If you are alone, just crack the lines on the top of the injector pump till fuel flows out then tighten while its pumping (so air doesn't go back in).
Growing up I was told horor tales of airlocked motors taking mechanics all day to get running. I have not seen such a thing and I have seen a lot of motors. If you do the steps above and it still won't pump, its something else.
 
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RJSStamps

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While your motor may not have a solenoid, there has to be some form of shut down mechanism that shut's the fuel injector pump output off. A lever or something. I have fought with many an old motor only to find out I didn't even have the fuel turned on.
Now, if your absolutely sure that your fuel is turned on, I find using a marine style primer bulb helps greatly. You put it in the fuel line before the primary filter. It only costs like four bucks and I install one on every piece of equipment I own and every piece in our fleet. If you change the fuel filter, squeeze the bulb as you tighten the filter and it fills the whole system up so no hard starts. Also is a huge time saver if the guys run stuff out of fuel. Using that method, you can just have someone pump the bulb while someone else cranks and most of the time things start in short order. If you are alone, just crack the lines on the top of the injector pump till fuel flows out then tighten while its pumping (so air doesn't go back in).
Growing up I was told horor tales of airlocked motors taking mechanics all day to get running. I have not seen such a thing and I have seen a lot of motors. If you do the steps above and it still won't pump, its something else.
Thanks Mike67, I will try that! I think there is a lever that shuts it off, and I wonder if thats worn and causing the problem. I'll have t check that out! I did try turnng it over with the lines cracked at the injectors however doing it alone doesn't work that way. I just get a few drips out of it. Cant put the bulb in before the filter on this machine but I can get one after the filter. Before the filter there is a very short metal line from the tank. After the filter it is all rubber lines. The filter has a bolt on top to bleed it. I am wondering if I could bleed the pump from the two end bolts on the top. A picture of it here http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Ford-Skidloader-Fuel-Injection-Pump-CL45-CL55-CL65-/280558729743 and they are the two above the hand primer and appear gold in the photo. They have nuts with a screw in them. Not sure if I can bleed it from there or not! In the exploded parts view it doesn't appear to be an adjustment screw but I could be wrong too. RJS
 
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RJSStamps

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Thanks Mike67, I will try that! I think there is a lever that shuts it off, and I wonder if thats worn and causing the problem. I'll have t check that out! I did try turnng it over with the lines cracked at the injectors however doing it alone doesn't work that way. I just get a few drips out of it. Cant put the bulb in before the filter on this machine but I can get one after the filter. Before the filter there is a very short metal line from the tank. After the filter it is all rubber lines. The filter has a bolt on top to bleed it. I am wondering if I could bleed the pump from the two end bolts on the top. A picture of it here http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Ford-Skidloader-Fuel-Injection-Pump-CL45-CL55-CL65-/280558729743 and they are the two above the hand primer and appear gold in the photo. They have nuts with a screw in them. Not sure if I can bleed it from there or not! In the exploded parts view it doesn't appear to be an adjustment screw but I could be wrong too. RJS
I went out just now and pulled those two bolts and both had air bubbles in them! I also found what the lever is up front....fuel shutoff :) Now to hook up the battery charger again. II did notice that there is a spring missing for the throttle return too. I'm sure I have something here for that. Anyway, getting that air out of the pump should help matters in that area.
 
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RJSStamps

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I went out just now and pulled those two bolts and both had air bubbles in them! I also found what the lever is up front....fuel shutoff :) Now to hook up the battery charger again. II did notice that there is a spring missing for the throttle return too. I'm sure I have something here for that. Anyway, getting that air out of the pump should help matters in that area.
Still no go :( It is trying to start but just doesn't seem to get enough fuel. Tried WD40 it tries harder,in fact it will actually run if you keep spraying it. Twice I had it going two or three seconds. I am starting to think the injector pump is bad but yet it does pump fuel enough that I could bleed it. Any suggestions on what to try next?
 

Tazza

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Still no go :( It is trying to start but just doesn't seem to get enough fuel. Tried WD40 it tries harder,in fact it will actually run if you keep spraying it. Twice I had it going two or three seconds. I am starting to think the injector pump is bad but yet it does pump fuel enough that I could bleed it. Any suggestions on what to try next?
I wonder if its still bleeding through.... If its spluttering it means its getting some fuel through, i wonder if it could even be an injector issue? Just seems strange its not priming as it should.
 

Tazza

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I wonder if its still bleeding through.... If its spluttering it means its getting some fuel through, i wonder if it could even be an injector issue? Just seems strange its not priming as it should.
I assume you never had it running, so i wouldn't ruel out an injector issue either. If you crack the high pressure lines, crank it, does fuel well up around the fittings? If so, it sounds like you are getting fuel.
If injectors are not used for some time they can stick. Some are easy to pull down and clean and re-assemble. I have done it a few times with great success. Clean with compresed air and WD40, re-assemble with the same WD40 and they will hopefully be good to go.
 
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RJSStamps

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I assume you never had it running, so i wouldn't ruel out an injector issue either. If you crack the high pressure lines, crank it, does fuel well up around the fittings? If so, it sounds like you are getting fuel.
If injectors are not used for some time they can stick. Some are easy to pull down and clean and re-assemble. I have done it a few times with great success. Clean with compresed air and WD40, re-assemble with the same WD40 and they will hopefully be good to go.
Nope, I haven't run it, I bought it minus radiator and battery which were stolen after the owner passed away. It sat in a barn for two years after he died so you coukd be right about the injectors. They do appear easy to take apart looking at the parts diagrams. And yes, I did drain the fuel out that was in it. Put the same amount back in of new fuel. It's trying to run, it puffs out some smoke when trying to start just won't run. Can't complain much for what I paid though. Well, guess thata tonights project, try and get those injectors out. Tried once and they are tight! RJS
 
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RJSStamps

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Nope, I haven't run it, I bought it minus radiator and battery which were stolen after the owner passed away. It sat in a barn for two years after he died so you coukd be right about the injectors. They do appear easy to take apart looking at the parts diagrams. And yes, I did drain the fuel out that was in it. Put the same amount back in of new fuel. It's trying to run, it puffs out some smoke when trying to start just won't run. Can't complain much for what I paid though. Well, guess thata tonights project, try and get those injectors out. Tried once and they are tight! RJS
Gotem out..... breakerbars are great! Anyway here is what I saw as I pulled them. 1: completely dry 2: soaked 3: soaked 4: bottom dry, sides wet I will assume the two that were soaked are 1&4 are stuck. 2 bled easily, the others work a job. I spent 3 hours doing that yesterday! RJS
 
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RJSStamps

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Gotem out..... breakerbars are great! Anyway here is what I saw as I pulled them. 1: completely dry 2: soaked 3: soaked 4: bottom dry, sides wet I will assume the two that were soaked are 1&4 are stuck. 2 bled easily, the others work a job. I spent 3 hours doing that yesterday! RJS
what I meant to say was the two that are soaked were ok but the other two stuck or partiallyblocked. I will pull all 4 aart though and clean them. Not too bad to get them apart :) RJS
 

Tazza

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what I meant to say was the two that are soaked were ok but the other two stuck or partiallyblocked. I will pull all 4 aart though and clean them. Not too bad to get them apart :) RJS
Good plan, pulling them all and cleaning them. The wet ones may be stuck open too.
The smoke you have been getting will be the fuel not burning, hopefully the injectors is all that is wrong *crosses fingers*
When you have them apart, keep them seperate, don't mix parts. Ensure the plunger in the nozzle is free to move. I have had some that were really stuck. I needed to hold the base in the vice and lever the nozzle part up with screwdrivers. When it was free, they cleaned up really easy and were free to move.
 

Miker67

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Good plan, pulling them all and cleaning them. The wet ones may be stuck open too.
The smoke you have been getting will be the fuel not burning, hopefully the injectors is all that is wrong *crosses fingers*
When you have them apart, keep them seperate, don't mix parts. Ensure the plunger in the nozzle is free to move. I have had some that were really stuck. I needed to hold the base in the vice and lever the nozzle part up with screwdrivers. When it was free, they cleaned up really easy and were free to move.
While the injectors were out if it were me, I would take some marvel mystery oil and pour it right down to the cylinders and let it sit overnight. Not a lot, don't wanna hydro lock things, but since the motor has been sitting idle for a while you want to make sure all the rings are nice and slimy. This will ensure that, A, you have good compresssion, and B, that things are properly lubricated from having set for a prolonged period of time.
Also, if the WD doesn't loosen things enough, try AeroKroil. WD isn't really a hardcore penetrant, but Kroil is. Orange colored spray can. You won't find it in the auto stores because its not a "value" brand and will probably have to get from an industrial supply place, but very worth it.
 
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RJSStamps

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While the injectors were out if it were me, I would take some marvel mystery oil and pour it right down to the cylinders and let it sit overnight. Not a lot, don't wanna hydro lock things, but since the motor has been sitting idle for a while you want to make sure all the rings are nice and slimy. This will ensure that, A, you have good compresssion, and B, that things are properly lubricated from having set for a prolonged period of time.
Also, if the WD doesn't loosen things enough, try AeroKroil. WD isn't really a hardcore penetrant, but Kroil is. Orange colored spray can. You won't find it in the auto stores because its not a "value" brand and will probably have to get from an industrial supply place, but very worth it.
one the nozzel is stuck, it is sitting in and has PB Blaster in it. we'll see if that loosens it up overnight. the few seconds it would it sounded good so hopefully it will be OK. If not it will sit a while as i don't have the $$ for a motor right now and parts are not cheap for this motor. And finding them is tough too. Thanks for all the help so far! RJS
 
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RJSStamps

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one the nozzel is stuck, it is sitting in and has PB Blaster in it. we'll see if that loosens it up overnight. the few seconds it would it sounded good so hopefully it will be OK. If not it will sit a while as i don't have the $$ for a motor right now and parts are not cheap for this motor. And finding them is tough too. Thanks for all the help so far! RJS
well that didn't work. Got the needle out finally but after reinstalling the injectors it still won't run. Judt sits there with puffs of smoke on occasion. WD40 dosn't help. Not sure what else to do and no one seems to have any running motors to drop in it and I don't have $3600 to drop on a new motor and so forth. Guess it will be sitting a while and my driveway will be filled with these logs a bit longer...... RJS
 

Tazza

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well that didn't work. Got the needle out finally but after reinstalling the injectors it still won't run. Judt sits there with puffs of smoke on occasion. WD40 dosn't help. Not sure what else to do and no one seems to have any running motors to drop in it and I don't have $3600 to drop on a new motor and so forth. Guess it will be sitting a while and my driveway will be filled with these logs a bit longer...... RJS
Get your paws on a diesel compression tester. Ensure the fuel is off when testing, you don't want it to fire.
Install it in an injector hole or glow plug hole. You should get around 400 PSI, it will still work if its lower, just harder to start. 300, i have been told is the bottom of the scale, it will be very hard to get going at this compression value.
Get those readings, and you will have a better idea of what needs to be done next.
 
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RJSStamps

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Get your paws on a diesel compression tester. Ensure the fuel is off when testing, you don't want it to fire.
Install it in an injector hole or glow plug hole. You should get around 400 PSI, it will still work if its lower, just harder to start. 300, i have been told is the bottom of the scale, it will be very hard to get going at this compression value.
Get those readings, and you will have a better idea of what needs to be done next.
well tonight I found two running engines..... now which is going to be easier to install and better to run in the cold? I have heard good things about Yangmar and cold starts, thats a 44hp 4 cyl and they also have a Kubota 46hp for the same price. A guy who knows diesels better than I do said at a minimum my motor needs rings but it really needs a whole rebuild due to moisture that sat in it while parked. So it would cost $1000or more to do it right on a rebuild or get a motor that parts are more readily available for. Personally I think the better choice is the latter, just not sure which engine to go with. I will need it to run in the cold though. RJS
 
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RJSStamps

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Get your paws on a diesel compression tester. Ensure the fuel is off when testing, you don't want it to fire.
Install it in an injector hole or glow plug hole. You should get around 400 PSI, it will still work if its lower, just harder to start. 300, i have been told is the bottom of the scale, it will be very hard to get going at this compression value.
Get those readings, and you will have a better idea of what needs to be done next.
lol, found the problem Tazza! no compression! Didn't need a tester either. Went to loosen the plate bolts that attach to the back of the motor and even with a 1/2" wrench the motor turns. It shouldn't turn that easy. Sooooo..... a motor swap is deffinately in the works. RJS
 

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