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 Author Thread: Shop airlines
Skiddy is not online. Last active: 8/24/2009 3:47:39 PM Skiddy
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Shop airlines
Posted: 04/30/2009 01:11 PM
I currently use 1/2" sweat copper for all my airlines in my shop. I am doing an addition to this shop this summer and was wondering if pex tubing would be a good choice for airline @ 125 psi. I havn't checked lately but 6 months agor copper fittings and tube was way way expensive. and nope I won't use PVC.
Tazza is not online. Last active: 10/19/2014 2:47:39 PM Tazza
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Re: Shop airlines
Posted: 04/30/2009 01:28 PM
I have 1/2“ copper on about a 50m run from the garage to where i work on my machines. Its at 90psi all the time without a problem. Just ensure the pipe you get is rated for the pressure, i remember on a nother forum this debate came up and there was a pipe that you should never use as it was rated for no pressure, like drainage pipe. It didn't carry mains pressure at all. I got a good deal on my pipe, so i couldn't say no.

Bobcat 763 burntSadbut i'm working on it!, 04 S150 with air and a smooshed cab, S250 turbo.
coreya3212 is not online. Last active: 9/13/2012 8:49:35 PM coreya3212
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Re: Shop airlines
Posted: 04/30/2009 01:38 PM
I am jealous.  I wanted to use copper for sure.  Too much cash though.  I think that it looks good to run on the surface too.  I ended up running actual air hose.  Like when you buy a 1/2 inch rubber air hose with the threaded crimps for quick couplers etc....There is a sort of discount store in Canada called Princess auto, i think similar to Harbour freight in the USA,  they always have 50 footers on sale so I ended up just running that around my shop.  I now have air everywhere in the shop for about 30 bucks.  Looks like sh*t though....

Experience is something you get right after you needed it !!!
Tazza is not online. Last active: 10/19/2014 2:47:39 PM Tazza
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Re: Shop airlines
Posted: 04/30/2009 03:02 PM
Thats what i was going to do too, not sure how it would have handled being buried. The copper was buried with the power i ran up there too. Its been about 2 years, no problems so far.

Bobcat 763 burntSadbut i'm working on it!, 04 S150 with air and a smooshed cab, S250 turbo.
OldMachinist is not online. Last active: 10/21/2014 6:45:42 AM OldMachinist
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Re: Shop airlines
Posted: 04/30/2009 03:29 PM

Pex isn't rated for air line use but some other simular products are. I think IPex has a product that is.

There's a reason that black iron pipe has been the traditional material for air lines for years. It allow for good straight runs with no sagging if supported correctly. Anytime there's a low spot in the line water will accumulate there and eventually start coming out at the point of use. When you run a air line all lines should run uphill a little awy from the compressor so that all the water runs back to the compressor. All drops should have a drip leg below the outlet with a drain valve. This allows you drain any water and debris that is there. This sounds like alot of work but if you do it this way you'll always have clean dry air running through your tools.


Bobcat 453F ,Loegering steel tracks, Grouser steel tracks, 48" Dirt bucket, 48" toothed bucket, grapple bucket, 72" hydraulic vee snow plow and utility forks, 1954 Ford 860, 1952 Allis Chalmers CA, 1947 Case SC, Nashville IL USA
OldMachinist is not online. Last active: 10/21/2014 6:45:42 AM OldMachinist
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Re: Shop airlines
Posted: 04/30/2009 07:59 PM

I did a search to find some information to back up what I said about running air lines and this diagram is the best one I found.

http://www.tptools.com/StaticText/airline-piping-diagram.pdf

There's nothing worse than to be using a air tool and have it suddenly start spitting water out the exhaust.


Bobcat 453F ,Loegering steel tracks, Grouser steel tracks, 48" Dirt bucket, 48" toothed bucket, grapple bucket, 72" hydraulic vee snow plow and utility forks, 1954 Ford 860, 1952 Allis Chalmers CA, 1947 Case SC, Nashville IL USA
Tazza is not online. Last active: 10/19/2014 2:47:39 PM Tazza
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Re: Shop airlines
Posted: 04/30/2009 08:11 PM
Had that happen before..... Thats why you are supposed to oil them every time you use them, just a few drops of sewing machine oil in the air inlet, don't give it a massive squirt though.

Bobcat 763 burntSadbut i'm working on it!, 04 S150 with air and a smooshed cab, S250 turbo.
OldMachinist is not online. Last active: 10/21/2014 6:45:42 AM OldMachinist
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Re: Shop airlines
Posted: 05/01/2009 06:54 AM

Well actually the oil is just to lubricate the tool. If you have the water coming out of the tool it means somewhere in your system water is acumulating instead of being drained off.

I forgot to mention that you should also have a flexible connector between your compreesor tank and the plumbing to reduce the vibrations transmitted to the plumbing. Here's a picture of mine.

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg49/calfranch/Machine%20Shop/DSCF0545.jpg


Bobcat 453F ,Loegering steel tracks, Grouser steel tracks, 48" Dirt bucket, 48" toothed bucket, grapple bucket, 72" hydraulic vee snow plow and utility forks, 1954 Ford 860, 1952 Allis Chalmers CA, 1947 Case SC, Nashville IL USA
Tazza is not online. Last active: 10/19/2014 2:47:39 PM Tazza
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Re: Shop airlines
Posted: 05/01/2009 03:28 PM

Over here we always have pretty high humidity, you simply can't keep the air all dry. You do the usual things like drain the tank but there is always some. Especially when running air tools that gobble air and the air is hot so the water will not condensate and naturally ends up in the lines. You do what you can, but water is always there unless you buy a proper water separator. I use a water trap for spray painting but the small amount of water i get in other air tools doesn't seem to cause any harm, well not so far.

I agree on the flexible hose to the air line, i simply have plastic/rubber air hose connecting the compressor to the hard air line.


Bobcat 763 burntSadbut i'm working on it!, 04 S150 with air and a smooshed cab, S250 turbo.
Skiddy is not online. Last active: 8/24/2009 3:47:39 PM Skiddy
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Re: Shop airlines
Posted: 05/01/2009 08:09 PM
What actually is causing the condensate. when the air moves fast through the line it chills the air and then condences? I need to look into some condensate cans for each of my drops. A nice 1.5" sweat copper can would be nice at the bottom of each drop.
OldMachinist is not online. Last active: 10/21/2014 6:45:42 AM OldMachinist
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Re: Shop airlines
Posted: 05/01/2009 09:52 PM
Here in the mid USA it gets pretty humid in the summer and I really don't have a problem with moisture in the lines. I get a lot of water out of the tank when I drain it but I've never had problem with it at the point of use. I only use a dryer on the one outlet that I use for painting. 

Bobcat 453F ,Loegering steel tracks, Grouser steel tracks, 48" Dirt bucket, 48" toothed bucket, grapple bucket, 72" hydraulic vee snow plow and utility forks, 1954 Ford 860, 1952 Allis Chalmers CA, 1947 Case SC, Nashville IL USA
Tazza is not online. Last active: 10/19/2014 2:47:39 PM Tazza
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Re: Shop airlines
Posted: 05/02/2009 12:21 AM

Skiddy - from what i have read, the water in the air after its compressed is hot (of course) the water is in vapor form when its like this. The compressed air needs to cool for the water vapor to become water again, if you are using lots of air, it doesn't have time to cool as its being used up as fast as its being generated. This is where you have problems with moisture, if you can allow the water to cool off before use its pretty dry.

From what i was told by a guy that gave me a long length of 1 1/4” bore hose said its shouldn't be used for sand blasting (which i'm using it for....) because this style hose when air is passing through gets hot due to friction, friction generates heat and any moisture in the line us kept in vapor form. For sand blasting you really need dry air or the sand clogs the nozzle, so its a big concern.

For general use, simply draining the reserve tank is enough and installing a drier/water seperator at the end of the line when painting.


Bobcat 763 burntSadbut i'm working on it!, 04 S150 with air and a smooshed cab, S250 turbo.
Tazza is not online. Last active: 10/19/2014 2:47:39 PM Tazza
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Re: Shop airlines
Posted: 05/02/2009 12:22 AM

Sorry... double post


Bobcat 763 burntSadbut i'm working on it!, 04 S150 with air and a smooshed cab, S250 turbo.
Skiddy is not online. Last active: 8/24/2009 3:47:39 PM Skiddy
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Re: Shop airlines
Posted: 05/02/2009 08:34 AM
OK taz so if we made some sort of chiller between the compressor and the tank it should collect a good share of the moisture..... correct? By the way if anyone has been looking for a really good hose reel, I just bought one at lowes for 59.99. It comes with 50' of hose and it works real well. It is the retractable style.
Tazza is not online. Last active: 10/19/2014 2:47:39 PM Tazza
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Re: Shop airlines
Posted: 05/02/2009 02:11 PM
Skiddy - thats exactly what the proper units do. They actually chill it to get the water to form, then after it passes through there it uses the heat generated to warm the air back up. You don't want to have cold air passing through your lines, you just want it cool and dry. For general shop use its not needed, they aren't cheap and you need to feed them power to run as well.

Bobcat 763 burntSadbut i'm working on it!, 04 S150 with air and a smooshed cab, S250 turbo.
skidsteer.ca is not online. Last active: 7/21/2014 8:31:40 PM skidsteer.ca
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Re: Shop airlines
Posted: 05/06/2009 08:06 AM

I think trapping moisture is the best reason to plumb air around the shop, then you build a few traps in and it has plenty of time to cool.

I used all 3/4 plastic, not sure if its pvc, but its been good except  buy the stove required more clearance then I thought.  I clamped the couplers down to prevent breaking the pastic when coupling hoses though. Fairly cheap and a bit flexible.

Ken


NH LS 160, S150, S185 Hoe Brusher Grapple Auger, Mixer Tiller Soil Conditioner Trencher Tracks Snow Blade Wood Splitter Stump Grinder Land Plane. Dealer Virnig Erskine Componets Plus Wallenstein Bauma Lite
renopker is not online. Last active: 7/13/2014 7:44:09 AM renopker
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Re: Shop airlines
Posted: 05/06/2009 05:57 PM
I have a 10 hp compressor 3/4 black pipe and use a air chiller to remove the water .When air is compressed it heats up and heated air holds more moisture. with a chiller it removes all the moisture,chillers can be bought at auctions from 100.00 up .I run all kinds of equipment and need dry air Id never go with out one.
Skiddy is not online. Last active: 8/24/2009 3:47:39 PM Skiddy
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Re: Shop airlines
Posted: 05/08/2009 10:12 PM
Ok I was just looking at the new Northern tools catalog and they now sell Airline kits that use a push to connect fitting. Very nice looking set up.
Skiddy is not online. Last active: 8/24/2009 3:47:39 PM Skiddy
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Re: Shop airlines
Posted: 05/08/2009 10:21 PM
Ken PVC is very dangerous to use as airline. It explodes like shattering glass and an xray will not show pvc when they are trying to pick all the shards out of you.
Skiddy is not online. Last active: 8/24/2009 3:47:39 PM Skiddy
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Re: Shop airlines
Posted: 05/08/2009 10:36 PM
Good info here on PVC http://www.osha.gov/dts/hib/hib_data/hib19880520.html
Tazza is not online. Last active: 10/19/2014 2:47:39 PM Tazza
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Re: Shop airlines
Posted: 05/09/2009 02:32 AM
Skiddy - i believe its not standard PVC that they use, its rated for air. I get a catalogue at work every month trying to sell air lines that are made of plastic, it must be like poly pipe that they use for water. Its sort of soft, not hard like conduit that you run power through. When it splits, it just cracks and lets the water/air out slowly, it does not simply explode, its too soft. Its in no way brittle enough to cause shards of plastic to cut you up. I can drive over it with my bobcat, it flattens out a bit but will NOT crack.

Bobcat 763 burntSadbut i'm working on it!, 04 S150 with air and a smooshed cab, S250 turbo.
skidsteer.ca is not online. Last active: 7/21/2014 8:31:40 PM skidsteer.ca
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Re: Shop airlines
Posted: 05/09/2009 05:33 AM

I'll  have to double check mine. I know its rated 200 psi.

Ken


NH LS 160, S150, S185 Hoe Brusher Grapple Auger, Mixer Tiller Soil Conditioner Trencher Tracks Snow Blade Wood Splitter Stump Grinder Land Plane. Dealer Virnig Erskine Componets Plus Wallenstein Bauma Lite
coreya3212 is not online. Last active: 9/13/2012 8:49:35 PM coreya3212
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Re: Shop airlines
Posted: 05/09/2009 06:54 AM
I would have to check, but the white , here anyway, used for water lines and general plumbing is rated at 175 psi.  I know white is the weak stuff.  Grey Schedule 40 has gotta be even tougher.  I never run air over 110-120 psi anyhow.  Are you guys running higher psi stuff than that??

Experience is something you get right after you needed it !!!
Tazza is not online. Last active: 10/19/2014 2:47:39 PM Tazza
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Re: Shop airlines
Posted: 05/09/2009 02:50 PM
Mine is all 110psi or lower through copper to my work area.

Bobcat 763 burntSadbut i'm working on it!, 04 S150 with air and a smooshed cab, S250 turbo.
OldMachinist is not online. Last active: 10/21/2014 6:45:42 AM OldMachinist
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Re: Shop airlines
Posted: 05/16/2009 09:22 AM

I just thought of something I forgot to mention. When you run your air lines plumb one to the outside so you don't have to drag a hose out a door everytime you need air outside.

DSCF0571.jpg picture by calfranch

I use mine all time for blowing the clipping off the mower and keeping up with tire pressures. I plumbed it a shutoff valve inside the door in case I need it.

As you can see I was cleaning the mower deck today and thats what made me think of it.

DSCF0572.jpg picture by calfranch

 


Bobcat 453F ,Loegering steel tracks, Grouser steel tracks, 48" Dirt bucket, 48" toothed bucket, grapple bucket, 72" hydraulic vee snow plow and utility forks, 1954 Ford 860, 1952 Allis Chalmers CA, 1947 Case SC, Nashville IL USA
Skiddy is not online. Last active: 8/24/2009 3:47:39 PM Skiddy
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Re: Shop airlines
Posted: 05/17/2009 05:57 PM
yeah that old machinist................................................... he is THE MAN and he has all the ............................................................. stuff!
skidsteer.ca is not online. Last active: 7/21/2014 8:31:40 PM skidsteer.ca
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Re: Shop airlines
Posted: 05/18/2009 08:00 PM

I do run 175 psi in mine, still need to check it out....

Ken


NH LS 160, S150, S185 Hoe Brusher Grapple Auger, Mixer Tiller Soil Conditioner Trencher Tracks Snow Blade Wood Splitter Stump Grinder Land Plane. Dealer Virnig Erskine Componets Plus Wallenstein Bauma Lite
Venom is not online. Last active: 6/12/2012 10:48:15 AM Venom
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Re: Shop airlines
Posted: 06/16/2009 09:17 AM
I worked in a facility that used PVC for the air lines. After a few years, the plastic got brittle and the lines started to blow. I was around for three of the explosions and they will scare the p!&& out of you. Luckily no one got hurt, but the shards we picked up were sharp as glass and some were very, very tiny. I found some deeply embedded in wood, so I know they would have no problem penetrating a human. Never, never use PVC for air lines.

843 Isuzu
coreya3212 is not online. Last active: 9/13/2012 8:49:35 PM coreya3212
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Re: Shop airlines
Posted: 06/20/2009 07:19 AM
hhmmm .I think it may depend on the type of PVC.  I know white PVC cant be in sunlight.  UV breaks it down over time and it gets brittle and cracks.  The Grey stuff, usually for electrical conduit is tougher and is used outside, above ground all the time so it may be ok.  The fact that it got brittle and cracked after a few years says to me that something else broke down the material, but it wasnt the air?  Just a thought for those wanting to use PVC. 

Experience is something you get right after you needed it !!!
Venom is not online. Last active: 6/12/2012 10:48:15 AM Venom
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Re: Shop airlines
Posted: 06/21/2009 04:27 PM
It was the schedule 40 or "gray stuff". If you've ever been around for one of these explosions you would not consider plastic.............

843 Isuzu
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